The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Davy]

Jesus was not on the mount of Olives, but actually in Jerusalem, when He pointed out the temple would be destroyed. The OD itself never mentions 70AD.

No, Jesus was... upon the Mount of Olives with His disciples when He said that not one stone atop another prophecy. Read the Matthew 24 or Mark 13 Scripture again.

 

[Phoneman777]

Jesus was not on the mount of Olives, but actually in Jerusalem, when He pointed out the temple would be destroyed. The OD itself never mentions 70AD.

Around 30 A.D. He said "this generation shall not pass" until the temple would be destroyed, and it was about 40 years later that it was. Since a Bible generation is 40 years, 30 + 40 = 70.

 

[Phoneman777]

Then maybe you should stop doing that, because I haven't. You have not been open about what all the theory of Historicism teaches about the "abomination of desolation" event. I took care of that in my previous post when I explained how it is meant according to God's Word, and how Historicism has a make-believe idea about it. So if you want to claim I was misrepresenting your words with doing that, then I say you must have mental issues.

Thank you

 

[Timtofly]

No, Jesus was... upon the Mount of Olives with His disciples when He said that not one stone atop another prophecy. Read the Matthew 24 or Mark 13 Scripture again.

"And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately."

Two different times the disciples came to Jesus. One at the temple as He was leaving. One while He was sitting on the Mount of Olives.

"And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,"

Once again, two different places, and two different questions.

There, you can read it in this post, and not even look it up and forget how it reads by the time you type a response.

 

[No Pre-TB]

No, the numbers to add are 600 + 60 + 6. Not what you keep trying to add. I already pointed out to add other numbers is futile.

666 is just 3 6's.

Good luck with your 6,000 years = 666 idea.

 

[No Pre-TB]

You said Eve was around before the Sabbath. I pointed out it was after.

You call that deflection. I call it a normal conversation. Is not posting: "Again, you’re deflecting and dodging. More flip flops than a Florida beach." itself just a deflection, instead of a normal back and forth? How does accusing a poster, further a serous conversation on a stated topic?

God rested on the last day of creation. Eve was created before that day of rest. And you are flip flopping. Spinning a web…Timtofly

 

[No Pre-TB]

Having in the flesh been born in Fla I just want to mention that flip flops are only for the parking lot. The beach is properly a barefoot zone.

Much love =]

Amen @marks

Ha! Not the beaches in west palm beach or Port Saint Lucie. :)

 

[Timtofly]

Around 30 A.D. He said "this generation shall not pass" until the temple would be destroyed, and it was about 40 years later that it was. Since a Bible generation is 40 years, 30 + 40 = 70.

Can you quote Jesus, or just put words in His mouth, that He did not say?

A Bible generation is never given. The time it takes for a generation to die is still not a fixed number. Before the Flood humans could have offspring until they were 800. That would make a parent 800 years older than that generation. Except they also had offspring at 60 and that would make that generation 740 years older than later siblings.

After the Flood normal life lasted 120 years. So the first sibling could be 100 years older than their last sibling.

Life expectancy in the first century was 35 years. So no one was even expected to live to 40. How can a generation be 40 years, when they were already dead 5 years sooner? They had children when they were 15 to 20 years old. So a new generation every 18 years on average. Even Peter and Paul who lived way past the normal life expectancy, died before 70AD. Many born in 30AD were dead way before 70AD.

40 years in the wilderness killed off 2 generations. Those over 60, one generation. Their kids between 20 and 40, a second generation. And possibly even their grandkids who were 20 years of age who also rebelled with the other 2 generations. That it was 40 years just shows God's mercy that the Jewish revolt did not go on another 10, 20, or even 30 years of pain and suffering.

People who claim "that generation" who were adults in 30AD were really stretching reality, and not even being true to the historical record to claim all were still alive in 70AD. Even Josephus was born in 37AD. He was not "that generation". He cannot even be your poster child generation, and it is his record of history who gave 70AD as the year the temple and Jerusalem was destroyed. He was 33 years old, not even 40. Yes he mentioned some older people around. They died, passed away in the destruction. I am not saying all were dead. The probability is very high though. Jesus never associated the destruction of the temple with any generation. So you will have to provide an actual quote to prove your point.

 

[Timtofly]

Good luck with your 6,000 years = 666 idea.

Not my luck. How is God placing a curse or expiration date on people's forehead good luck?

Has it not been 6 Millenia since Adam got booted from Paradise?

 

[Timtofly]

God rested on the last day of creation. Eve was created before that day of rest. And you are flip flopping. Spinning a web…Timtofly

Prove that Eve was taken out of Adam 2 hours before 6pm. After Adam named all the animals on the earth. In the prior 10 hours. Prove that Cain was born and found a wife in those same 2 hours.

Not spinning anything. Just pointing out that God planted the Garden after the Sabbath. The man was placed in the Garden, was named Adam after that man named all the animals, and after the Sabbath. Adam was asleep when Eve was taken out of Adam. All this happened after the Sabbath.

You are spinning a tall tale, when you claim Adam did all this in 12 hours of daylight between 6am and 6pm. How Cain was born, lived with another sibling, killed that sibling and found a wife all in that same 12 hour period of time. It is you spinning all that into 12 hours.

The whole of what God did went on for the whole Day of the Lord. One day plural. The first 6 24 hour days was creation. After the Sabbath, Day of Adonai, God returned and planted a Garden and placed a son of God in that Garden alone, away from the other sons of God. God did not put 2 sons of God in the Garden, but one, singular. He told that son of God to name all the animals. After that, God gave him a name, Adam. After that when Adam was asleep one evening, God took a female out of Adam. That worked out great, a few kids later, Satan got involved. That woman was accused of giving Adam the forbidden fruit, and that woman accused the serpent of deception. Then Adam named that woman, Eve. You claim all that happened in 24 to 48 hours. Your reality is truly a miracle of extraordinary time bending physics. Takes a lot of faith and belief to pull that scenario off. God cannot even be blamed, he was resting according to you.

 

[Phoneman777]

Can you quote Jesus, or just put words in His mouth, that He did not say? A Bible generation is never given. The time it takes for a generation to die is still not a fixed number. Before the Flood humans could have offspring until they were 800. That would make a parent 800 years older than that generation. Except they also had offspring at 60 and that would make that generation 740 years older than later siblings. After the Flood normal life lasted 120 years. So the first sibling could be 100 years older than their last sibling. Life expectancy in the first century was 35 years. So no one was even expected to live to 40. How can a generation be 40 years, when they were already dead 5 years sooner? They had children when they were 15 to 20 years old. So a new generation every 18 years on average. Even Peter and Paul who lived way past the normal life expectancy, died before 70AD. Many born in 30AD were dead way before 70AD. 40 years in the wilderness killed off 2 generations. Those over 60, one generation. Their kids between 20 and 40, a second generation. And possibly even their grandkids who were 20 years of age who also rebelled with the other 2 generations. That it was 40 years just shows God's mercy that the Jewish revolt did not go on another 10, 20, or even 30 years of pain and suffering. People who claim "that generation" who were adults in 30AD were really stretching reality, and not even being true to the historical record to claim all were still alive in 70AD. Even Josephus was born in 37AD. He was not "that generation". He cannot even be your poster child generation, and it is his record of history who gave 70AD as the year the temple and Jerusalem was destroyed. He was 33 years old, not even 40. Yes he mentioned some older people around. They died, passed away in the destruction. I am not saying all were dead. The probability is very high though. Jesus never associated the destruction of the temple with any generation. So you will have to provide an actual quote to prove your point.

Where did you get your data for 1st century life expectancy as being only 35 years? Were you there? Did you get it from Catholicism, the all time champion of revisionist history chronology? Even today, practitioners of scientific skulduggery which control Big Pharma misrepresent the life expectancy of the 19th century in order to promote "modern medicinal advancements" as superior to God's pharmacy by factoring in infant mortality.

Many Bible scholars recognize a Bible generation at the time of Jesus as 40 years and I prefer their reasons for saying so. Therefore, 70 A.D. fits nicely with the OD.

 

[ewq1938]

God rested on the last day of creation. Eve was created before that day of rest.

Not according to the bible. Even was created AFTER the day of rest:

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
The Creation of Man and Woman
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
Gen 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

 

[ewq1938]

Many Bible scholars recognize a Bible generation at the time of Jesus as 40 years

How long a generation might be has nothing at all to do with what Jesus was saying. He was saying the people that see the signs/birthpangs (first part of the Olivet Discourse) will see all the events Christ described.

 

[Phoneman777]

How long a generation might be has nothing at all to do with what Jesus was saying. He was saying the people that see the signs/birthpangs (first part of the Olivet Discourse) will see all the events Christ described.

Around 31 A.D., He told of the coming destruction of the temple and the need for the faithful to flee Judea, and that they needed to pray their flight be not in winter or on the weekly Sabbath which He still expected the faithful to be keeping - then He said to the generation listening to Him that their generation would not pass until this was fulfilled.

So, what's wrong with assigning 40 years as the what amounted to a 1st century "generation", adding it to 31 A.D., and concluding 70 A.D. saw the fulfillment of this prophecy?

 

[Timtofly]

Where did you get your data for 1st century life expectancy as being only 35 years? Were you there? Did you get it from Catholicism, the all time champion of revisionist history chronology? Even today, practitioners of scientific skulduggery which control Big Pharma misrepresent the life expectancy of the 19th century in order to promote "modern medicinal advancements" as superior to God's pharmacy by factoring in infant mortality.

Many Bible scholars recognize a Bible generation at the time of Jesus as 40 years and I prefer their reasons for saying so. Therefore, 70 A.D. fits nicely with the OD.

Give me a few good reasons why this 40 is your go to generation.

 

[ewq1938]

So, what's wrong with assigning 40 years as the what amounted to a 1st century "generation",

It's misunderstanding what he was saying. He was speaking of people of a generation not the length of a generation.

It would be just like saying people living on July 23, 2022 would see certain events take place. That wouldn't mean at 40 years something would happen. In other scripture the timeframe is given for the Great Tribulation which is 42 months. Only the birthpangs that happen before the Great Tribulation would have to be determined and no time length is given for those but perhaps several years of those happening before the Great Tribulation starts. That's far less than any 40 year belief.

adding it to 31 A.D., and concluding 70 A.D. saw the fulfillment of this prophecy?

No one listening to Jesus during the Olivet Discourse saw the fulfillment of anything he spoke of on the mount. Also, ad31 and 40 years is ad71, not ad70.

 

[Keraz]

Where did you get your data for 1st century life expectancy as being only 35 years?

This is a prime example of 'statistics and lies'.
Because the infant death rate was so high, right almost to the present day; sometimes over half of all babies did not survive past 5 years. This fact skews any averages to a low figure for life expectancy.
However; if a person managed, by luck or good management, to survive , then they may well live to 60 and beyond.

 

[covenantee]

It's misunderstanding what he was saying. He was speaking of people of a generation not the length of a generation.

It would be just like saying people living on July 23, 2022 would see certain events take place. That wouldn't mean at 40 years something would happen. In other scripture the timeframe is given for the Great Tribulation which is 42 months. Only the birthpangs that happen before the Great Tribulation would have to be determined and no time length is given for those but perhaps several years of those happening before the Great Tribulation starts. That's far less than any 40 year belief.



No one listening to Jesus during the Olivet Discourse saw the fulfillment of anything he spoke of on the mount. Also, ad31 and 40 years is ad71, not ad70.

Matthew 24
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Futurists believe that Jesus was only joking.

But they can't explain why the Judean Christians fled.

 

[Phoneman777]

Give me a few good reasons why this 40 is your go to generation.

The Israelites had to wander 40 years, each day for a year - which begs the question: why such a harsh punishment? The answer is obvious: it would take that long for the bones of every unbelieving Israelite of that generation to be buried.

 

[Phoneman777]

It's misunderstanding what he was saying. He was speaking of people of a generation not the length of a generation.

It would be just like saying people living on July 23, 2022 would see certain events take place. That wouldn't mean at 40 years something would happen. In other scripture the timeframe is given for the Great Tribulation which is 42 months. Only the birthpangs that happen before the Great Tribulation would have to be determined and no time length is given for those but perhaps several years of those happening before the Great Tribulation starts. That's far less than any 40 year belief.



No one listening to Jesus during the Olivet Discourse saw the fulfillment of anything he spoke of on the mount. Also, ad31 and 40 years is ad71, not ad70.

Yes, at this point, I can see where it's possible to interpret it that way. However, it can also be interpreted another way because it was indeed one generation from the destruction.