The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Phoneman777]

The words DUTY and REMAINS have different meanings. The verse does not contain the word DUTY.

A Sabbath remains, the true one which fulfilled and replaced the old version you keep. This is like someone slaughtering animals for forgiveness VS. one who repents via the blood of the Lamb. The first is OLD, the second is the NEW and current way.

Hey, I'm a prophet and didn't wot it!

How did I know you'd say that? If there remains a rest for us to rest, is it duty or is it an option? Solomon says they "whole duty of man" is to "keep the commandments" which includes the Sabbath, and is exactly what the Peshitta correctly says. it's the Ten Commandments, not the "Ten Suggestions", right or wrong?

 

[Phoneman777]

Today they have found the same stones in their original location.

Not sure how they can tell without a blueprint or Polaroid to compare with but that's inconsequential. The prophecy is about stones being thrown down, so I ask you specifically: Have they found irrefutable proof that a stone sitting atop another has not previously been thrown down?

If the answer is "no" - please - either admit Historicism remains intact or switch from this "stones" arguement to another of your "points of evidence" OK?

 

[Timtofly]

"Your claim is crazy" found no place in scripture!

The main reason I refrain from response on your post's, left field is a big understatement!

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

So?

They are humans marked with an expiration date. They have gone beyond the point of Adam's punishment which was declared over at the 7th Trumpet. Mankind was only punished for 6,000 years. No longer than the time equal to God's 6 days of work for creation itself.

But then again you remain in objection to 2 Peter 3:8 which shows God has been patient for 6,000 years, compared to His 6 Days of creation. Just like Exodus 20 states. The 4th Commandment places that expiration on mankind because of one man's sin.

You and Phoneman777 have a weirder twist on the mark than I do. You claim some man declared some law in the dark ages that causes the mark. Now explain where that is found in Scripture. I have verses in Exodus 20, 2 Peter 3, and Revelation 13 and 20 to point out almost the same thing. Just a different aspect of the Sabbath, which no one Remembers from Genesis 2. And you call me crazy.

You observe the works of man. I pointed out the Word of God. God places the mark at the moment He removes a name from the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Timtofly]

No, that’s 6,012. 666 is 600, 60 and 6.

No 666 is Adam's number given to all mankind as punishment. 6,000 years of labor. 6 days a week, 6 hours a day.

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Count does not mean add numbers together as in 6,000+6+6. It does not even mean count numbers related to just any man's name.

What is the addition of 600+60+6? 666. Who is the man? Adam. What was his punishment? Technically it was 6 Millennium, 6 days, and 6 hours. Still 666, not 18. You don't add the 3 sixes. You add 600 + 60 + 6. So the beasts number is 666. The mark placed is still 666.

 

[Timtofly]

The majority MSS which say "there remains a Sabbath rest to the people of God" is absolutely no different to the Peshitta saying "duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath" in principle and thought.

The only difference that exists is in the minds of Antinomianists who HATE the idea of "duty" and want to make everything optional - though Solomon says keeping the commandments is 'the whole duty of man" from the present until God brings "every work into judgment".

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. There is no duty. There is not even forced rest. The command was to Remember and literally work 6 days a week.

Don't rest. Work 7 days a week. Eventually you will be exhausted and have to rest or burn out, and good for nothing.

The added statement is that all should cease from work and do nothing for one day. God was being specific or humans would just make excuses to burn themselves out. The day of rest was supposed to help Israel not bind them in duty, or stress them out from going beyond the Law and working all the time.

The reason they got 70 years of captivity was to allow the ground itself to rest. Disobedience to God in all aspects of the Law netted them exile in punishment. The length of exile was related to the Sabbath, not the exile itself. That was for breaking all the Law.

 

[Timtofly]

God Himself imposed "repentance" as the condition that Israel was to first meet before He would mercifully gather them after punitively scattering them. What Biblical precedent can you point to as evidence to support your claim "God still chooses to bring Israel back without repentance"?

Just the text, please.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

 

[Timtofly]

Exodus 20:8-11 KJV plainly tells you the Sabbath is to be kept holy by not working and gives the reason for doing so: because God created in 6 days and made one more day for us to "REMEMBER" - and it's the fault of people who fight against keeping it that Evolution exists: How could a man ever get to the place where he declares there's no God when once a week he bows down and worships God?
Yes, Romans 8:7 KJV says sinners can't keep the Sabbath commandment even if they wanted to, but for those who've been "cleansed from all unrighteousness" after confessing it, we'll be calling the Sabbath a "delight" for eternity, unlike those who find God's commandments "grievous".
Jeroboam followed your philosophy - set up an entire new religion in the Northern kingdom and even established a new feast day to observe - please read 1 Kings 12 and 1 Kings 13 to find out how much God appreciated that.
"In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men". Let's stick with God's commandments.
I speak from experience that if you work 6 days and then keep the Sabbath holy, there's a whole lotta cleaning and mowing and maintenance to fill up Sunday - the difference is you'll be so well rested from the day before, you'll look like a white tornado doing it.
Who needs to rest on Sabbath if you're only working 6 hours a day? In some countries, that's considered unemployment :cool:

The words are: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Not: Do no work on the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Not even: Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Now in Deuteronomy 5:

"Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work"

Observe, keep, preserve the Sabbath

If you work 6 days, rest, then mow the grass on Sunday, what 8 day calendar are you looking at?

6 hours a day was a normal day. Some would work 2 6 hour shifts. The ME almost has equal day and nights. Only modern man has practiced 8 hour days, 12 hour days, and now 24/7 days of labor.

It is assumed 6 hours would be enough, and plenty of time to do as one pleases so when that day of rest came it all belonged to God.


"1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.

8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

12 hours a day is the max. But not every one worked those hours.

Evolution exist because humans forgot the Sabbath, literally. No one teaches the first Day of rest was 1,000 years. There was no sin and death for 1,000 years. No decay or half lives for the first 1,000 years on earth. Explain that one to today's scientists.

Of course, Christians deny that day happened as well. All have accepted Satan's virtual reality universe. You all complain about keeping Saturdays holy. God has been patient with humans for 3,000 years while Satan teaches them Evolution bit by bit, until the Law and Genesis are relegated to meaningless made up human mythologies.

 

[covenantee]

And yet, you have not stopped making stuff up in regards to my post.

And yet, you have not stopped your anti-Semitism.

 

[No Pre-TB]

No 666 is Adam's number given to all mankind as punishment. 6,000 years of labor. 6 days a week, 6 hours a day.

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Count does not mean add numbers together as in 6,000+6+6. It does not even mean count numbers related to just any man's name.

What is the addition of 600+60+6? 666. Who is the man? Adam. What was his punishment? Technically it was 6 Millennium, 6 days, and 6 hours. Still 666, not 18. You don't add the 3 sixes. You add 600 + 60 + 6. So the beasts number is 666. The mark placed is still 666.

Once again, you go left field. Deep left field..beyond the bleachers. My comment was sarcasm. In reality, it’s 600, 60 and 6. I’ve yet to see anyone here post a logical reason to the number.

 

[ewq1938]

Hey, I'm a prophet and didn't wot it!

How did I know you'd say that? If there remains a rest for us to rest, is it duty or is it an option? Solomon says they "whole duty of man" is to "keep the commandments" which includes the Sabbath, and is exactly what the Peshitta correctly says. it's the Ten Commandments, not the "Ten Suggestions", right or wrong?

Wrong. We aren't in Judaism nor are we in the old covenant. There is no "ten commandments" in the new covenant.

 

[Timtofly]

What, a literal passage contains symbolism? What do we call a passage that contains symbolism? A parable! If we make the symbolic elements of this parable literal, a volcanic eruption of contradiction occurs. Here's just one example:

Scripture identifies only two kinds of bodies, the "earthly house" and the one "eternal in the heavens" aka the carnal body and resurrection body. Now, when the Rich Man, Abraham, and Lazarus died, what happened to their carnal bodies? That's right - worm food. When do they get their eternal, resurrection bodies? That's right - the resurrection.

So, if this is a literal passage, what the flip is the Rich Man, Abraham, and Lazarus doing with eyes, ears, tongues, fingers, bosoms and legs to carry a warning thousands of years before the resurrection? Before you say a word, remember there's only two (2) kinds of bodies God's Bible knows about so please don't come with talk about "spiritual bodies" or similar extraBiblical nonsense. Only by recognizing the passage as the parable it is, we can then find how the Bible interprets the parable for us.

Jesus told of the experience in sheol. Does the soul experience the effects of a physical body in sheol? Yes. Is Abraham a literal person, yes. Was the rich man a literal person, yes. Was Lazarus raised from the dead, yes. Are those OT redeemed still in sheol, no. They entered that heavenly Paradise in permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They were the firstfruits of the literal church.

When the temple veil was rent from top to bottom, so was the gate of Paradise swung wide open, and the angel was given a new assignment. Jesus told the thief, that day you will be with me (the Lord God) in Paradise. So Abraham's bosom was emptied that second, when Jesus declared it was finished. That is when those in sheol from Jerusalem came out of their graves in those God given permanent incorruptible physical bodies, that house eternal in the heavens, which is symbolic of permanent incorruptible physical bodies. A symbolic name of a literal place does not define a parable. It was called Abraham's bosom, because Abraham was the father of Israel. It was not called Adam's bosom, even if Adam was the first soul to enter. It is like the Staples center in downtown Los Angeles which is now the crypto.com center. The stadium is a literal place even though it has a figurative name. It was not a staple, nor a staple store. It was just named after the franchise. Although now it has a new name. Abraham's bosom was not Abraham nor a bosom. It was a proper name given to a literal place, that no longer exists.

 

[Timtofly]

Not sure how they can tell without a blueprint or Polaroid to compare with but that's inconsequential. The prophecy is about stones being thrown down, so I ask you specifically: Have they found irrefutable proof that a stone sitting atop another has not previously been thrown down?

If the answer is "no" - please - either admit Historicism remains intact or switch from this "stones" arguement to another of your "points of evidence" OK?

No, you with your history intact has to prove your historical assumptions from the historical record.

I can not prove your point for you. That is your job.

 

[Phoneman777]

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. There is no duty. There is not even forced rest. The command was to Remember and literally work 6 days a week.

Can you show me the command to love God before Sinai? Oh, you can't. We're they obligated to do so? You bet your life. So it is with the Sabbath. Besides, you couldn't drag Adam and Eve away from God on the first Sabbath rest with a team of wild horses.

 

[Timtofly]

And yet, you have not stopped your anti-Semitism.

Which is what? Telling you to stop making stuff up about my post? Why is telling to you to stop making stuff up anti-Semitic?

Are you defining semitism as "making stuff up"?

 

[post]

Can you show me the command to love God before Sinai?

of course.
first mention of 'love' in scripture:

He said,
“Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”
(Genesis 22:2)​

this is the LORD commanding Abraham to love Him with all his heart, with all his soul, and all his strength.
see Deuteronomy 6 for a recap.

 

[Phoneman777]

Wrong. We aren't in Judaism nor are we in the old covenant. There is no "ten commandments" in the new covenant.

I'll believe you if you can name just one the Christian is at liberty to break...just one.

 

[Timtofly]

Once again, you go left field. Deep left field..beyond the bleachers. My comment was sarcasm. In reality, it’s 600, 60 and 6. I’ve yet to see anyone here post a logical reason to the number.

There won't be a logical reason until it happens. You can't even be serious about God's Word. Adding up those numbers is still 666.

 

[Timtofly]

Can you show me the command to love God before Sinai? Oh, you can't. We're they obligated to do so? You bet your life. So it is with the Sabbath. Besides, you couldn't drag Adam and Eve away from God on the first Sabbath rest with a team of wild horses.

Eve did not even exist on that first Sabbath. There was no law from Adam to Moses. Paul:

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

 

[post]

Solomon says they "whole duty of man" is to "keep the commandments" which includes the Sabbath

the law is one law; all of it was commanded by God to Moses.
all of it was engraved in stone ((Joshua 8:30-32)) -- all of it. so have another look at 1 Corinthians 3.

if you break any of it you are guilty of all of it -- Matthew 5:19, Galatians 5:3, James 2:10
however, praise God! we who believe have died with Christ and are under none of it, the law having no jurisdiction over the dead.

think the 10 commandments aren't part of "the law" ?
look at Romans 7:7
refuted.

have an ear, hear.

 

[post]

his bosom is the size of Texas, right or wrong?

you have a tape measure that measures spirit?

interesting.