The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Phoneman777]

And what does any of that have to do with keeping the sabbath on Saturday or not? Nothing.

Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

The "sabbath" of Colossians ain't talking about the weekly Sabbath because it's not a shadow of anything.

A "shadow of heavenly things" points to something in the Plan of Salvation Jesus would do for us to save us, understand? Do I have to repeat that? The following "shadows" point to just that:

Passover- He died for our sins.
Unleavened Bread- His body remained uncorrupted while entombed showing His perfect sacrifice.
First Fruits- Our resurrection is made possible only by His resurrection, without which we're "perished".
Feast of Weeks- He poured out the Holy Spirit so we could overcome sin an
Trumpets- He announced the Day of Atonement is imminent.
Day of Atonement- Christ's final Judgment and eradication of sin and impenitent sinners
Tabernacles- Jesus finally comes for His Saints to be with Him forevermore.

Q. What thing did Christ come and do, to which the weekly Sabbath points to as a "shadow"?
A. Absolutely nothing - it is not a shadow pointing to anything future, it's a memorial pointing to Creation, so please stop making it be something it's not.

 

[Timtofly]

Hey, YOU said it, I didn't.

Christ's Church is gathered and relocated on earth, not 'removed' from the earth to live in Heaven, which is what the false Pre-trib Rapture teaches. Zechariah 14 says when Jesus' feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives, He brings ALL the saints with Him there.

Zech 14:1-9
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

That above is about the 6th Vial event of His gathering the nations together in prep for the battle of Armageddon, in prep of His pouring out His cup of wrath upon them for the final 7th Vial, on the LAST DAY of this world, called the "day of the Lord" (Revelation 16:15-21).

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Per Acts 1, Jesus ascended to Heaven from the Mount of Olives in sight of His disciples. That is where this show He also returns, to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, ON EARTH. So He is coming to EARTH, not gonna' hang in the clouds, nor bounce back up into Heaven like a rubber ball. He is coming here, to earth, where He left earth.

And His feet touch the Mount of Olives, it will form a GREAT VALLEY in that area.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

That... is where Jesus is descending from Heaven to, gathering His saints on the way, and they ALL go to that Mount of Olives area in Jerusalem, ON EARTH.

This... is what is written about 'where' Jesus returns, not some milly-mouthed hireling that preaches his own word and the devil's false agenda of Pre-trib Rapture theory instead of God's Word, simply because God did not call that hireling.


6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

There's Jesus' reference in The New Testament that no one but The Father knows the day of His coming.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

That is about the River of the waters of life that will issue out of the Millennial sanctuary there in Jerusalem in that future time after His return. God gave Ezekiel to cover that in the Ezekiel 40 through 47 chapters.


9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and His name one.
KJV

In that day, no more false gods, no more false religions, nor idol worship, ONLY One LORD reigning as KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS, as written in Revelation.

The mount of Olives is no where near the valley of Megiddo. Armageddon is not the Second Coming. The 6th Seal is the Second Coming to the Mount of Olives. Jesus is not on the clouds. He is setting up His throne and temple in Jerusalem. The landing on the mount of Olives levels the temple mount. Literally no stone left on top of one another. That is when Jesus sets up His Throne.

Armageddon is after Satan's 42 months. Satan will be sitting on that throne set up at the 6th Seal.

Can you explain where billions of redeemed currently in heaven will fit in Jerusalem? If that multitude cannot be counted, then how will it fit in Jerusalem? Paradise is where the redeemed currently are. It is quite capable of holding billions of redeemed.

 

[Taken]

What is your thought on this idea, that we remain in the heavenly new Jerusalem and only return to earth for the new creation?

Much love!

I know of no such teaching of the “converted/ ie saints”, being in (or remaining in) the new Jerusalem, ‘in heaven”.

I believe “saved souls” departed out of physically dead bodys, go to Paradise. A particular “place” in Heaven, where the “Tree of Life” is currently situated...and such souls continue “being fed, eating the Word of God”...
I do not picture “saved souls” having a “freelance prance about all of Heaven”.

Heaven is revealed....as Heaven(S).
Study reveals Heaven is Gods Throne, His Kingdom.
I believe Study reveals all of Gods taught Knowledge, is paralleled for men to SEE, blips, and even some experience those BLIPS.
...we see the sky’s, stars, sun, planets, clouds...and even men have ventured into the “clouds”.
...we see the earth quake...lava spew, trees tumble, earth open, ash spew, sunlight darkened, etc.
..we see the trees uproot, buildings tumble, waves in the seas mount, by great wind effects.
..we see bolts of lightening, burn, fill the darks sky’s with light, mega energy men can not harness.

Just mentioning a few things, we get a sneak peak at.
When God informs us...Pay attention, He is jealous, He gets angry, WHAT makes Him angry, Review history, God was very angry before, showed His Anger, via HIS Tribulations and HIS Wrath, and it SHALL again occur...and as well FORETOLD...people will be too busy to pay attention...to BE MADE PREPARED, by, through, of God...and thus SHALL suffer the consequences.
* And all the little “blips” we do see from God, SHALL OCCUR exponentially magnified, GREAT beyond what our imagination can grasp.

* I believe it is SIMPLE...to the Point;
Great Tribulation and Great Wrath IS sent down from HEAVEN as NeGATIVE JUDGEMENTS UPON the Earth and the inhabitants OF the Earth...TO destroy and kill.

* a man is IN Christ, and Christ IN a man...that man IS NOT going to suffer GREAT tribulation, GREAT wrath..which is to SAY;
No, God will NOT Stand Against Himself!
No, God will NOT Kill and Destroy the Christ “IN” a man, or a man “IN” Christ.

* HOW to NOT Kill and Destroy what IS UPON the face of the Earth?
LIFT IT UP above the face of the Earth.
* WOW...to where?
* Nothing new under the sun.
* Same place God Lifted UP Noah “to”.
* Where...ABOVE the EARTH “to” the Clouds.

* Ever experienced that blip, Being IN The CLOUDS before?
I have. It is fascinating. Sure many times in an airplane, seeing puffs of clouds, peeks of the blue sky’s, nighttime twinkling stars...and a few times...what is modernly called “Cumulonimbus” clouds. Thick tower after tower of massive clouds crowded together, over, under, beside as far as my eye could see in any direction. Beautiful yet eerie. And shocking to see another plane going the opposite direction, (seemingly some 30 feet distance, burst out of nowhere for seconds then disappear. ) Sort of creepy.

Just don’t see, “saved souls” in a “city” in Heaven.
Just don’t see, God leaving one man IN Christ on Earth to experience Gods Great Tribulations and Wrath.
Do see God IS Faithful, True and Just.

Men who think they shall BE ON Earth during the days of Gods Tribulation(S) (Seals, Trumps, Vials)...They Probably WILL be ON Earth. IF they believe they are worthy of Gods NEGATIVE judgements.
They Probably ARE worthy of Gods Negative judgements, anger, tribulations and wrath.

Gen 7
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

How high above the face of the earth?

Gen 7
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
[19] And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
[20] Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

15 cubits approx. 22+ feet above the mountains.
Ever seen what is in the sky’s around mountain tops?


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

At the 6th Seal the Lamb comes to earth.

Scripture does not say that.

 

[Phoneman777]

Why didn't you answer my questions? How exactly do you think someone can "keep the commandments of God"? Are you suggesting that you never break the commandments of God?

The issue is not whether I or anyone else keep or break God's commandments. JESUS kept them and says we are to "walk as He walked".

Are YOU keeping God's commandments? Are you a "Just Man" or a "Presumptuous Man"?

 

[ewq1938]

And when it says that when the seventh angel begins to sound, the mystery of God is FINISHED. That doesn't mean anything.

You don't even know what that means which is obvious because you are misusing it. Why don't you give us your exegesis of that verse.

 

[ewq1938]

The issue is not whether I or anyone else keep or break God's commandments. JESUS kept them and says we are to "walk as He walked".

Jesus lived under the old covenant, we don't. Jesus never lived under the new covenant as we do.

 

[Truth7t7]

Which Sabbath is that? Do you Remember all the details of the first Day of Adonai in Genesis 2? Do you accept a Coming Day of the Lord, the final Day of creation?

Do you even accept the 6 Days of labor placed on mankind from Adam and Eve's offspring, Seth?

Or do you define the Sabbath as "just Saturday". There were other Sabbath days in the Hebrew calendar that never fell on Saturday. So, Sabbath does not equal Saturday. Sabbath just means a day of rest. Normally the last day of the week.

If you hold to 6,000 years since Adam's disobedience, what is the 7th Millennium to you? The Last One? The one where rest will be required of all humans? Will men be punished again, and the cycle repeat itself?

You claim you believe in and follow the Sabbath, but is that "Saturday" or the Day of the Lord, as in a literal 1,000 years?

I observe the 7th day as my day of rest, not the 1st day as many churches and denominations do

You can get crazy in your response concerning your opinion on the 7th day Sabbath, you have received my clear response

 

[The Light]

You don't even know what that means which is obvious because you are misusing it. Why don't you give us your exegesis of that verse.

Why don't you explain... when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, how it is possible that Jesus has not returned and Armageddon has not already happened.

 

[ewq1938]

Why don't you explain...

No, you are using the verse thinking it supports what you are saying so I asked first for you to explain what it means. If you cannot explain it, then you don't understand it and shouldn't be using it.

"And when it says that when the seventh angel begins to sound, the mystery of God is FINISHED."

Go ahead and explain wheat those things mean and by all means use the original Greek to aid in the exegesis.

 

[marks]

Ok, yeah.

So those 1st six angels blowing their trumpets, are just a walk in the park.

Trumpets and bowls are both plagues from God, that is their commonality.

In the bowls, the wrath of God is finished. There is no reason to think, so far as I can see, that we should not consider the judgments of the trumpets and the bowls to be expressions of God's wrath.

Much love!

 

[Timtofly]

There is no human imagination like the human imagination of dispensational futurism. It is the epitome of human imagination run amok.

As your godfather John Nelson Darby declared,
"I do not admit history to be, in any sense, necessary to the understanding of prophecy."

Dispensational futurism.

Interpretation by imagination.

Interpretation by hallucination.

Thanks for the guffaw.

That is why I am not one. You cannot label what you think I am, so not sure why you even try.

 

[marks]

Q. What thing did Christ come and do, to which the weekly Sabbath points to as a "shadow"?
A. Absolutely nothing - it is not a shadow pointing to anything future, it's a memorial pointing to Creation, so please stop making it be something it's not.

There remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

The Sabbath commemorates creation, and is a shadow of the new creation of God's children, who rest in Christ.

Much love!

 

[Timtofly]

@Timtofly ... not once did I see you make any such claim that “John Nelson Darby” is your “godfather”.

Very suspect of @covenantee to think his teaching holds any merit when he uses False claims to buttress his teaching.

Gaslighting!

Perhaps John Nelson Darby is the godfather of Paul and all his NT writings, as well?

 

[The Light]

No, you are using the verse thinking it supports what you are saying so I asked first for you to explain what it means. If you cannot explain it, then you don't understand it and shouldn't be using it.

"And when it says that when the seventh angel begins to sound, the mystery of God is FINISHED."

Go ahead and explain wheat those things mean and by all means use the original Greek to aid in the exegesis.

Ok. The wheat harvest is the early summer harvest. The wheat harvest will likely occur on Pentecost. Bonus. The barley is the first harvest of the year. The barley harvest represents the dead in Christ.

Ok. Now please explain how the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ if Jesus has not returned and Armageddon has not already happened at the 7th trumpet.

 

[marks]

Perhaps John Nelson Darby is the godfather of Paul and all his NT writings, as well?

I think deflecting to Darby is to hide not having a better argument.

Why should I have to defend my view Scripturally, if I can just accuse you of parrotting Darby?

What do they call that, the Genetic Fallacy?

Darby is declared wrong, and then whatever view you are presenting, "Oh, that's just Darby!" as if that answers the matter!

As If!

This fallacy has been repeated over and over ad nauseum.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

Perhaps John Nelson Darby is the godfather of Paul and all his NT writings, as well?

Not even going to go there adopting an others nonsense.
That was wrong for him to make that claim for you.

 

[Taken]

I think deflecting to Darby is to hide not having a better argument.

Why should I have to defend my view Scripturally, if I can just accuse you of parrotting Darby?

What do they call that, the Genetic Fallacy?

Darby is declared wrong, and then whatever view you are presenting, "Oh, that's just Darby!" as if that answers the matter!

As If!

This fallacy has been repeated over and over ad nauseum.

Much love!

Um just noting, “godfather/Darby” was an accusation by another poster TO Timtofly, I commented to Tim, he commented back to me...
The “godfather/Darby” thing was all another poster.

 

[marks]

Um just noting, “godfather/Darby” was an accusation by another poster TO Timtofly, I commented to Tim, he commented back to me...
The “godfather/Darby” thing was all another poster.

I realized that, sorry if I gave the impression I thought that was you, I know better.

Much love!

 

[Phoneman777]

Still does not answer the question about the fig tree blooming.

Did you find a case in Scripture where God disregarded His own imposed condition and gathered Israel into the land without them repenting?

Would you say God literally had nothing to do with the formation of the US either.

Did God impose some unknown condition on the U.S. like He imposed on Israel before He'd gather them after they'd been punitively scattered?

Do you pick and choose based on a percentage of evil people involved?

You mean Freemason Pike's letter stating they planned to create a "sovereign state in Israel"? BTW, it can be shown to anyone willing to listen the Papacy controls the world's secret societies, make no mistake. So, to answer your question, no, I don't pick and choose the evil, the evil by virtue of arrogance and pride, loves to dangle their secrets in plain sight because they know people are too preoccupied with divisive politics, sports, and entertainment foolishness to care.

My point was not even if God was involved or not. God is the Sovereign over all creation. He allows everything to happen, good or bad. My point is the fig tree bloomed. Should Israel have not become a Nation until after the Second Coming?

When it comes to prophecy, shouldn't we take into consideration 2 Chronicles 6 and 7 before we presume to interpret "Israel" in Revelation as pertaining to literal Israel and not the "Israel of God", which Paul refers to as the church?