John 1:1 EXPOSING the JWs LIES

[JohnPaul]

How truth is shared matters a ton. To paraphrase Paul, you can speak all man of goodness with the tongue of angels, but if you don’t do so lovingly, it amounts to nothing. This type of approach doesn’t show love, but instead is just fighting. It doesn’t bring anyone closer to Christ.

Thank you Jane, much respect for you sister!

 

[tigger 2]

John 1:1 EXPOSING the JWs LIES

In an appendix in their publication, The Kingdom Interlinear Translation, the Jehovah’s Witnesses quote as authorities on Greek grammar, from Drs. H E Dana and J R Mantey, Dr Samuel Green, and Dr A T Robertson. These scholars works have been MISQUOTED to give the IMPRESSION, that they actually support their demonic reading of John 1:1, “and the Word was a god”. I am here providing direct evidence from the actual works of these scholars, so that all can see the LIES that the Jehovah’s Witnesses use, to continue to promote their evil teachings on the Lord Jesus Christ.

The first image is from The Kingdom Interlinear Translation appendix, to show their FALSE claims:

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Now I will give the three Greek authorities that are quoted in this appendix, do DISPROVE the LIES

H E Dana and J R Mantey

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Samuel Green

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A T Robertson

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It is VERY CLEAR from each work, that these Greek authorities, are in full agreement, that John 1:1 reads in English, “and the Word was God”.

WHY the need to provide FALSE evidence, if what you believe and teach, is FACT?

I have elsewhere exposed the LIES by @tigger 2 "The word was a god"? On the FALSE information given from works quoted, that are supposed to support the HERETICAL reading, "and the Word was a god"

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Your photocopy from the Interlinear is accurate. Your claims about what it says are completely false.

1. The photocopy from D&M actually proves what the interlinear says. The very bottom of that excerpt shows that Mantey has used an example in Greek that is actually parallel to John 1:1c (anarthrous predicate noun found before its verb) and then translated it himself in such a way that it is parallel to the NWT's John 1:1c: "and the place was a market." That is the part that Mantey has complained about, but D&M and you have shown that the Interlinear comment was correct.

2. As for the old "General Rule" mentioned by Green, it was only stated in the Interlinear, that by his own statements, he has said and shown that it is only a general rule and not always correct. The Interlinear does not say that Green believed John 1:1c says "And the Word was a god."

3. A.T. Robertson references in the Interlinear, aqain, do not say or even imply that he believes the NWT is correct about Jn 1:1c!

Your spin of the Interlinear Appendix is extremely dishonest.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

........................................
Your photocopy from the Interlinear is accurate. Your claims about what it says are completely false.

1. The photocopy from D&M actually proves what the interlinear says. The very bottom of that excerpt shows that Mantey has used an example in Greek that is actually parallel to John 1:1c (anarthrous predicate noun found before its verb) and then translated it himself in such a way that it is parallel to the NWT's John 1:1c: "and the place was a market." That is the part that Mantey has complained about, but D&M and you have shown that the Interlinear comment was correct.

2. As for the old "General Rule" mentioned by Green, it was only stated in the Interlinear, that by his own statements, he has said and shown that it is only a general rule and not always correct. It does not say that Green believed John 1:1c says "And the Word was a god."

3. A.T. Robertson references in the Interlinear, aqain, do not say or even imply that he believes the NWT is correct!

Your spin of the Interlinear Appendix is extremely dishonest.

you don't even know any Greek grammar!

Dana and Mantey, Green and Robertson, I have and there is no doubt they ALL say "the Word was God".

So you LIE again!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

How truth is shared matters a ton. To paraphrase Paul, you can speak all man of goodness with the tongue of angels, but if you don’t do so lovingly, it amounts to nothing. This type of approach doesn’t show love, but instead is just fighting. It doesn’t bring anyone closer to Christ.

have you read the many disputes that Jesus has with the Jews? the language that Jesus uses is very strong indeed, because we are dealing wiht very important issues. And how do you know that I am not exposing LIES because of my LOVE for these people? The church today is very much compromising, where TRUTH has been replaced by human deceptions, where Gospel Messages are very much not from the Bible, but to please those who are no longer interested in things like sin, eternal punishment, etc, etc.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

have you read the many disputes that Jesus has with the Jews? the language that Jesus uses is very strong indeed, because we are dealing wiht very important issues. And how do you know that I am not exposing LIES because of my LOVE for these people? The church today is very much compromising, where TRUTH has been replaced by human deceptions, where Gospel Messages are very much not from the Bible, but to please those who are no longer interested in things like sin, eternal punishment, etc, etc.

I’m not saying a thing about you accepting JW beleifs. Your beliefs are in no way in danger here.

As to sharing what you believe to be true with others: remember Paul’s words.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I’m not saying a thing about you accepting JW beleifs. Your beliefs are in no way in danger here.

As to sharing what you believe to be true with others: remember Paul’s words.

I also remember the way Jesus Christ, Who is our ultimate example, interacted with those who lived during His time on earth. He and He ALONE is my Judge in everything.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I also remember the way Jesus Christ, Who is our ultimate example, interacted with those who lived during His time on earth. He and He ALONE is my Judge in everything.

Needless to say we understand Christ’s actions very differently.

Have a nice day.

 

[DavidB]

I am not but admire God’s witnesses, I am not up to their standard because I can’t give up my human habits, therefore I had to stop, they would never act like you and others act, unChristian.

I am not but admire God’s witnesses, I am not up to their standard because I can’t give up my human habits, therefore I had to stop, they would never act like you and others act, unChristian.

Continue to develop your love for Jehovah. With his help you can overcome anything.

 

[DavidB]

The Greek word monogenes has nothing to do with begetting but means one of a kind unique

The Lexical Meaning of "Monogenes"

(Monogenes" (from, monos=only, single; and, genos=kind. Lit., of a single kind; unique)

"Lit. it means 'of a single kind', and could even be used in this sense of the Phoenix (1 Clem.25.2). It is only distantly related to gennao, beget. The idea of 'only begotten' goes back to Jerome who used unigenitus in the Vulg. to counter the Arian claim that Jesus was not begotten but made" (Colin Brown, Ed., The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Vol.II, p. 725)

"Single of its kind, only; used of only sons or daughters...used of Christ, denotes the only son of God or one who in the sense in which he himself is the son of God has no brethren" (J H Thayer; Greek-English Lexicon, p.417)

"only...Also unique (in kind) of someth. that it the only example of its category...'unique and alone'" (W F Ardnt and F W Gingrich; A Greek-English Lexicon, p.529)

"the only member of am kin or kind: hence, generally, only, single, unique" (H G Liddell and R Scott; A Greek-English Lexicon, p.1144. Revised Edition)

"Monogenes, is literally “one of a kind,” “only,” “unique” (unicus), not “only-begotten,” which would be monogennetos, (unigenitus), and is common in the LXX in this sense" (J H Moulton & G Milligan; Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament. pp. 416-417)

" The Usage outside the NT. In compounds with genēs, adverbs describe the nature rather than the source of derivation. Hence monogenēs is used for the only child. More generally it means “unique” or “incomparable.” The LXX has the first sense in Judg. 11:34 and the second in Ps. 22:20. agapētós occurs in Gen. 22:2, 12 where monogenḗs might have been used (cf. Mk. 1:11), but while the only child may be “beloved,” the terms are not synonymous." (G Kittel and G Friedrich, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, p. 607. single vol ed)

Maybe you should read Thayer’s definition again.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Needless to say we understand Christ’s actions very differently.

Have a nice day.

it is great to be different. God bless you :)

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Maybe you should read Thayer’s definition again.

The adjective, “μονογενὴς”, when used in the Greek Septuagint Version, never has the meaning “Begotten”

Judges 11:34, “Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah. And behold, his daughter came out to meet him with tambourines and with dances. She was his only (μονογενὴς) child; besides her he had neither son nor daughter”

Psalm 22:20, “Deliver my soul from the sword; Mine only one (μονογενὴς) from the power of the dog”

Psalm 25:16, “Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am alone (μονογενὴς) and afflicted”

Likewise in the other places where used in the New Testament;

Luke 7:12, “Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only (μονογενὴς) son of his mother”

Luke 8:42, “For he had one only (μονογενὴς) daughter, about twelve years of age”

Luke 9:38, “Master, I beseech thee, look upon my son: for he is mine only (μονογενὴς) child”

Hebrews 11:17, “By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only (μονογενὴς) son”

It is clear from the uses here of “μονογενὴς”, that it does not mean “only-begotten”, but, “one and only”, or “unique”.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Maybe you should read Thayer’s definition again.

Thayer says of the actual meaning of the word

μονογενής, μονογενές (μόνος and γένος) (Cicero,unigena; Vulg. (in Lukeunicus, elsewhere) and in ecclesiastical writingsunigenitus), single of its kind, only

This is it, what he goes on to explain in his comments, reflect his Unitarian theology. I have shown in #31, that μονογενές is never used for BEGETTING.

 

[Windmill Charge]

The Watchtower says:-

Can there be false religion? It is not a form of religios perscution for anyone to say and to show that another religion is false.
from 15/11/1963 p 688.

It also says on the same page " it is a public sevice"

Who then are the ones who form the body of true worshipers today? On the basis of evidence, known or available to persons in all parts of the earth, they are the Christian witnesses of Jehovan.
from the Truth that Leads to Eternal Life wbts 1968 p 130

page 13 also says.
We need to examine not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organisaton.
Are its teachings in full harmony with God's Word or are they based on the traditions of men?
If we are loversof the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination.

The New World Translation clear says that Jesus is a god, this is a false translation as has been shown and all sort of attempts are made to support this mistranslation from the use of the spiritulist Johannes Greber to blatent misstruths.

 

[DavidB]

The Father calls Jesus Christ GOD in Hebrews 1.8

Hebrews 1:9 calls God “your God” meaning Jesus’ God and says God anointed Jesus. God has a God and needed to be anointed by that God? Something is wrong here.

 

[DavidB]

The Greek word monogenes has nothing to do with begetting but means one of a kind unique

The Lexical Meaning of "Monogenes"

(Monogenes" (from, monos=only, single; and, genos=kind. Lit., of a single kind; unique)

"Lit. it means 'of a single kind', and could even be used in this sense of the Phoenix (1 Clem.25.2). It is only distantly related to gennao, beget. The idea of 'only begotten' goes back to Jerome who used unigenitus in the Vulg. to counter the Arian claim that Jesus was not begotten but made" (Colin Brown, Ed., The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Vol.II, p. 725)

"Single of its kind, only; used of only sons or daughters...used of Christ, denotes the only son of God or one who in the sense in which he himself is the son of God has no brethren" (J H Thayer; Greek-English Lexicon, p.417)

"only...Also unique (in kind) of someth. that it the only example of its category...'unique and alone'" (W F Ardnt and F W Gingrich; A Greek-English Lexicon, p.529)

"the only member of am kin or kind: hence, generally, only, single, unique" (H G Liddell and R Scott; A Greek-English Lexicon, p.1144. Revised Edition)

"Monogenes, is literally “one of a kind,” “only,” “unique” (unicus), not “only-begotten,” which would be monogennetos, (unigenitus), and is common in the LXX in this sense" (J H Moulton & G Milligan; Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament. pp. 416-417)

" The Usage outside the NT. In compounds with genēs, adverbs describe the nature rather than the source of derivation. Hence monogenēs is used for the only child. More generally it means “unique” or “incomparable.” The LXX has the first sense in Judg. 11:34 and the second in Ps. 22:20. agapētós occurs in Gen. 22:2, 12 where monogenḗs might have been used (cf. Mk. 1:11), but while the only child may be “beloved,” the terms are not synonymous." (G Kittel and G Friedrich, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, p. 607. single vol ed)

Strong’s Concordance and the NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon says monogenes comes from “mono” and “ginomai” not “genos.” Ginomai meaning “to come into being” (Strong’s) or “to come into existence, begin to be” (NAS). Both translate as only begotten for obvious reasons.

Just one more example of trinitarians disagreeing among themselves.

 

[tigger 2]

you don't even know any Greek grammar!

Dana and Mantey, Green and Robertson, I have and there is no doubt they ALL say "the Word was God".

So you LIE again!

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The Interlinear page you printed does not disagree with you as I clearly told you also. I am sorry you can't (or refuse to) understand written English.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Hebrews 1:9 calls God “your God” meaning Jesus’ God and says God anointed Jesus. God has a God and needed to be anointed by that God? Something is wrong here.

Like verse 8 verse 9 is vocative which reads O God your God

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Strong’s Concordance and the NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon says monogenes comes from “mono” and “ginomai” not “genos.” Ginomai meaning “to come into being” (Strong’s) or “to come into existence, begin to be” (NAS). Both translate as only begotten for obvious reasons.

Just one more example of trinitarians disagreeing among themselves.

You don't understand that the Greek usage never means begetting

 

[DavidB]

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The Interlinear page you printed does not disagree with you as I clearly told you also. I am sorry you can't (or refuse to) understand written English.

Hatred seems to obscure comprehension.

 

[DavidB]

You don't understand that the Greek usage never means begetting

You seem unable to recognize that Strong’s and the NAS Lexicon disagree with you.