Bible alone

[n2thelight]

the teaching authority of Christ in his church


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Is not all of that in Scripture ? So again I ask, what more do I need ? Are you suggesting I need to add mans traditions to His Word .

You quote scripture , yet you say I need something more , don't make sense .

Also, who may I ask teaches that which is not in the Word (Bible) and how do I trust what they say ?

So that leads me back to my original question, what else do I need ? In other words you quote scripture to try and tell me scripture is not enough, how can that be ?

 

[JunChosen]

Rev 22:18-19 is NOT a descriptn of 0 nor does it provide support for the idea that Scripture is our SOLE Authority.
It simply warns the reader not to add to take away from this Book.

No it does not simply warns the reader not to add or take away from this Book.Time and again, God would tell someone like Moses, Jeremiah, Daniel to name a few, to write down everything in a book, that God dictated to them 2 Peter 1:21 and that became the Bible! Read again, and again Revelation 22:18-19 until you fully understanding the meaning. God in these verses is stating the consequences of adding and taking away from His word, that is, God is stipulating that His word [Bible] is the only Authority that we must adhere to....SOLA SCRIPTURA! And that no other. To do so would be blasphemous as liken to the Indians in our country would say, "You speak with fork tongue."

As per Revelation 13:8, you figure it out since you think you know all things concerning Scripture. Ha ha ha! [Proverbs 1:26].

To God Be The Glory

 

[Illuminator]

Is not all of that in Scripture ? So again I ask, what more do I need ? Are you suggesting I need to add mans traditions to His Word.

First, Sacred Tradition is not "man's tradition". Equating the two does violence to everything Paul wrote on the matter. Second, Sacred Tradition is not something more, it is not an add on. Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture flow from the same divine wellspring. They are intrinsically connected. They complement each other and there are no contradictions. The authority of Scripture is a Sacred Tradition. The Bible clearly contains a command that Christians be baptized (Matt. 28:19). But doesn’t Tradition contain that, too? Wasn’t the command to be baptized passed on orally in the early Church as well as being written down in Scripture? Wasn’t the requirement of baptism already firmly fixed in the life and belief of the churches before the New Testament was written? SS blinds you from this reality.

You quote scripture , yet you say I need something more , don't make sense .

Not to you because you can't escape the myth that Sacred Tradition is "something more" than Sacred Scripture. They are intrinsically interwoven. Pitting one against the other is a man made tradition.

Also, who may I ask teaches that which is not in the Word (Bible) and how do I trust what they say ?

The canon of the New Testament (list of books) is not in the Bible. But we both trust it.

So that leads me back to my original question, what else do I need ? In other words you quote scripture to try and tell me scripture is not enough, how can that be ?

Again, it's not a matter of "what else", Scripture itself IS a Tradition. If it were not for the Tradition of the Episcopate, you wouldn't have a Bible in the first place. This fact alone forces you to change the meaning of Tradition into something it isn't. It also forces you to invent Bible origin fantasies and twist the facts of early church history. The Bible is a fruit of the Church, not the other way around. A church did not pop out of a book.

Attacking Sacred Tradition to support sola scriptura is not in the Bible, it's thoughtless and automatic. Pitting one against the other is a man made tradition; the Bible doesn't do that. But you don't care, you do it anyway. Sola scriptura creates a mental block to the true meaning of Sacred Tradition so the SSist is forced to invent straw man fallacies as opposed to what it really means. "man's tradition" insults Paul. "something more" doesn't make sense either. This is how SS damages Sacred Scripture. It's like cutting off two legs of a three legged stool and expecting it to function.

Just because Sacred Tradition is a different mode of transmission of the Word of God does not mean it is automatically inferior to the written word. SS limits God to one mode. The Bible doesn't impose limits on God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don’t pay much attention to Jesuits pretending to be fundamentalist bible believers. Nah, nothing dribbled out but I do understand the Roman Catholic bait and switch game, which by the way is far from being truthful or honest.The Roman Catholics will stay in the hole they dug themselves into, but the christians will recognize the lies told by the RCC.

- D. A. Carson is a Baptist Professor of New Testament Studies at Trinity Evangelical Seminary
- J. Knox Chamblin is a Presbyterian and a New Testament Professor at Reformed Theological Seminary
- Craig Blomberg is a Baptist Professor of New Testament Studies at Denver Seminary
- William Hendricksen is a member of the Reformed Christian Church and a a Professor of New Testament Literature at Calvin seminary
And on and on . . .

YOU accuse these eminently respected Protestant Theologians as Jesuits pretending to be Fundamentalists Bible believers” because, in the depths of your abject ignorance, you don’t possess the knowledge or the faculties to debate with the likes of them. A truly idiotic charge that i guarantee is NOT shared by the bulk of your fellow ignorant anti-Catholics here.

However – I’ll give you a chance to substantiate with documented evidence, that they are nothing but “Jesuits”.
This oughtta be interesting . . .

 

[Marine0311]

- D. A. Carson is a Baptist Professor of New Testament Studies at Trinity Evangelical Seminary
- J. Knox Chamblin is a Presbyterian and a New Testament Professor at Reformed Theological Seminary
- Craig Blomberg is a Baptist Professor of New Testament Studies at Denver Seminary
- William Hendricksen is a member of the Reformed Christian Church and a a Professor of New Testament Literature at Calvin seminary
And on and on . . .

YOU accuse these eminently respected Protestant Theologians as Jesuits pretending to be Fundamentalists Bible believers” because, in the depths of your abject ignorance, you don’t possess the knowledge or the faculties to debate with the likes of them. A truly idiotic charge that i guarantee is NOT shared by the bulk of your fellow ignorant anti-Catholics here.

However – I’ll give you a chance to substantiate with documented evidence, that they are nothing but “Jesuits”.
This oughtta be interesting . . .

 

[Marine0311]

It isn’t hard to expose the deceptions you post. 1. No Christian will agree with the un-scriptural slop the RCC wallows in.2. No Christian has ever accepted the lies the RCC tells about Mary with zero scriptural support.3. No Christian has ever accepted the infallibility of a man in a fish hat sitting in a magical chair. 4. No Christian has ever believed that they could go to a human priest and PAY for indulgences. 5. No Christian will deny scripture which says it is appointed unto man once to die then the judgement for the lie of purgatory( again zero scriptural support) told by the RCC to fleece the flock of their money. 6. No Christian will leave the light of God for the darkness of the RCC. The phonies you have quoted from that sided with darkness ( if they actually did write the un-scriptural slop you claim) represent their opinions not the truth of scripture.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No it does not simply warns the reader not to add or take away from this Book.Time and again, God would tell someone like Moses, Jeremiah, Daniel to name a few, to write down everything in a book, that God dictated to them 2 Peter 1:21 and that became the Bible! Read again, and again Revelation 22:18-19 until you fully understanding the meaning. God in these verses is stating the consequences of adding and taking away from His word, that is, God is stipulating that His word [Bible] is the only Authority that we must adhere to....SOLA SCRIPTURA! And that no other. To do so would be blasphemous as liken to the Indians in our country would say, "You speak with fork tongue."

As per Revelation 13:8, you figure it out since you think you know all things concerning Scripture. Ha ha ha! [Proverbs 1:26].

To God Be The Glory

That’s nonsense – as I already PROVED in post #324. The Word of God is NOT only conveyed in what is written – but in the ORAL Tradition as well. See the examples below.

There is NO such thing as “Sola” Scriptura – or even “Sola” Oral Tradition.
They are BOTH sources of God’s truth because they are BOTH the Word of God.

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, EITHER by an ORAL STATEMENT OR by a LETTER from us."

Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exod. 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

2 Timothy 3:8 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION when speaking of Pharoah’s magicians, Jannes and Jambres. Their names are not recorded in the Old Testament.

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament. [/QUOTE]

 

[BreadOfLife]

It isn’t hard to expose the deceptions you post. 1. No Christian will agree with the un-scriptural slop the RCC wallows in.2. No Christian has ever accepted the lies the RCC tells about Mary with zero scriptural support.3. No Christian has ever accepted the infallibility of a man in a fish hat sitting in a magical chair. 4. No Christian has ever believed that they could go to a human priest and PAY for indulgences. 5. No Christian will deny scripture which says it is appointed unto man once to die then the judgement for the lie of purgatory( again zero scriptural support) told by the RCC to fleece the flock of their money. 6. No Christian will leave the light of God for the darkness of the RCC. The phonies you have quoted from that sided with darkness ( if they actually did write the un-scriptural slop you claim) represent their opinions not the truth of scripture.

Now, THAT’S funny . . .

A rabid, ignorant anti-Catholic, who condemns ALL things Catholic – yet he adheres to Catholic Tradition of the Canon of Scripture.

Tell mr -
WHY do you accept THIS Catholic Tradition??
WHO told you that the Bible you own was the Word of God??

 

[theefaith]

Is not all of that in Scripture ? So again I ask, what more do I need ? Are you suggesting I need to add mans traditions to His Word .

You quote scripture , yet you say I need something more , don't make sense .

Also, who may I ask teaches that which is not in the Word (Bible) and how do I trust what they say ?

So that leads me back to my original question, what else do I need ? In other words you quote scripture to try and tell me scripture is not enough, how can that be ?

scripture and tradition

tradition is the living teaching authority of Christ in his church by his apostles

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, andspeak face to face, that our joy may be full.

 

[atpollard]

That LIE has been exposed several times; you are too proud to be corrected, so you keep repeating the same lie over and over again. Myths about Indulgences

I am in your debt.
Now that we have established that you prefer a revisionist history to reality, there is clearly nothing to be gained by either you or I wasting any time reading posts based on alternative realities. I reference a medieval scandal in the church that resulted in three men claiming the title of pope at the same time, which split the Church and which resulted in a reformation within the Catholic church and you respond with an angry "taint so".

Carry on without me, I have no interest in anything you have to say. Enjoy the Kool-aid.

 

[atpollard]

MY God – the God of Scripture and of the Church – guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would guide us to ALL TRUTH (John 16:12-15).

That promise was technically made to the Apostles ... who WERE guided into all truth and thus able to write the infallible Holy Scripture.
YOU are not one of the Apostles, so you are stealing someone else's promise and falsely claiming it for your own (like the Pope does with Peter).

 

[atpollard]

The problem with that is that Scripture itself DOESN’T support Sola Scriptura – but DOES support the idea that Oral Tradition is ON PAR with Scripture (2 Thess. 2:15).

ONE MORE TIME ... Would you please share what Paul told you orally when YOU were in Thessolonica so we can all benefit from the infalible oral tradition from the lips of the Apostles!

 

[atpollard]

It is NOT a perpetually-splintering and divided Body.

The Catholic church would disagree: EOC, OOC, RCC, etc.
YOU taught us how to splinter 500 years before the Reformation when Rome splintered from all the other Apostles.

However, Protestants believe scripture ... that Jesus and His Holy Spirit decide who are His sheep ... not ANY man or denomination.
So YOUR opinions are irrelevent since Jesus will sit on the Bema seat (not Peter or any Pope).

 

[atpollard]

A doctrine which claims that Scripture is our SOLE Authority must be spelled out in Scripture.

No it doesn't ... scripture only needs to prove that Scripture is Authoritative for salvation.
Now let TRADITION and CHURCH TEACHING each prove that they are authoritative without relying on Scripture (since you do not find the authority of scripture adequate).

 

[atpollard]

It amazes me that you can read the Old Testament and NOT understand what Oral Tradition is.

In post #324, I gave no less than SEVEN examples of Oral Tradition from the OT, referenced in the NT.

Paul put sacred Oral Tradition on the SAME level as the written Word.
As I stated before – there is NO expiration date on 2 Thess. 2:15.

Is the canon of scripture closed?
Why?

 

[atpollard]

Jesus is the truth only savior
Mary is his mother
Mother of our salvation

Shall we pray to Abram, Patriarch of our salvation?

I think I will follow the example of the Apostles and "follow Jesus" and the advice of Mary: "Whatever He (Jesus) says, do it."

 

[theefaith]

ONE MORE TIME ... Would you please share what Paul told you orally when YOU were in Thessolonica so we can all benefit from the infalible oral tradition from the lips of the Apostles!

God is the father of our salvation so yes direct your prayers to God thru the intercession of the queen! 1 kings 2:19

abraham is the father of faith

 

[theefaith]

successors of Moses in the seat of Moses had authority and jurisdiction and were commanded to be obeyed by Christ!

Better check scripture on that one!

matt 23:1-3

3. No Christian has ever accepted the infallibility of a man in a fish hat sitting in a magical chair.

 

[Jim B]

God is the father of our salvation so yes direct your prayers to God thru the intercession of the queen! 1 kings 2:19

abraham is the father of faith

Saying that we should direct our prayers to God thru the intercession of the queen is blasphemy! Should your Catholic nonsense be believed or should we follow the teachings of Christ? He said...

"So pray this way:

Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored,
may your kingdom come,
may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts, as we ourselves have forgiven our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one." Matthew 6:9-13

or...

“When you pray, say:

Father, may your name be honored;
may your kingdom come.
Give us each day our daily bread,
and forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And do not lead us into temptation.” Luke 11:2b-4

No intercessor is mentioned!!! Jesus said to pray directly to God, the father. Praying to a dead woman as an intercessor is the epitome of blasphemy!!!

 

[theefaith]

Christian Purgatory

Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.

This verse was considered a proof of purgatory by Origen and St. Ambrose, who posits the water of baptism and the fire of purgatory.

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecc 12:14)

St. Augustine, in the 20th Book of his City of God, chapter 25, interprets this as purgatory. The preceding verse refers to the saved (“called holy” and “recorded for life”) and verses 5 and 6 describe the repose of the blessed.

Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Lev 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lam 3:39)

St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory.

Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.

Origen, St. Irenaeus, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome all thought this was a description of purgatory.

2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. [45] But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Cor 15:29)

The Jews offered atonement and prayer for their deceased brethren, who had clearly violated Mosaic Law. Such a practice presupposes purgatory, since those in heaven wouldn’t need any help, and those in hell are beyond it.

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, “You fool!” shall be liable to the hell of fire.

St. Francis de Sales commented:

It is only the third sort of offence which is punished with hell; therefore in the judgment of God after this life there are other pains which are not eternal or infernal, — these are the pains of Purgatory. (The Catholic Controversy translated by Henry B. Mackey, Rockford, Illinois: TAN Books, 1989 [orig. 1596], 373)

Matthew 5:26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

The “prison” alluded to in verse 25 is purgatory, according to Tertullian, St. Cyprian, Origen, St. Ambrose, and St. Jerome, while the “penny” represents the most minor sins that one commits.

Matthew 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

If this sin cannot be forgiven after death, it follows that there are others which can be, and this must be in purgatory: precisely the interpretation of St. Augustine, Pope St. Gregory the Great, the Venerable Bede, and St. Bernard, among others.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw – [13] each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.


This is a clear and obvious allusion to purgatory. Thus thought St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, Pope St. Gregory the Great, Origen, and St. Augustine, who wrote with his usual insight:

ecause it is said, he shall be saved, that fire is thought lightly of. For all that, though we should be saved by fire, yet will that fire be more grievous than anything that man can suffer in this life whatsoever. (Expositions on the Psalms, 38, 2)

Hebrews 12:14 Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. (cf. 12:1, 5-11, 15, 23, Eph 5:5; 1 Thess 4:3; 1 Jn 3:2-3)

Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman observed (as an Anglican):

Even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter . . . There is a moral malady which disorders the inward sight and taste; and no man labouring under it is in a condition to enjoy what Scripture calls the fulness of joy in God’s presence, . . . (Sermon on this verse: “Holiness Necessary for Future Blessedness,” 1834)

Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

The abundance of scriptural evidence for purgatory led to a consensus among the Church fathers: summarized by Protestant church historian Philip Schaff:

These views of the middle state in connection with prayers for the dead show a strong tendency to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. (History of the Christian Church, vol. 2, “Ante-Nicene Christianity: A. D. 100-325,” 5th edition, New York: 1889; ch. 12, sec. 156, 604-606)

Indulgences are graces merited by the passion and blood of Christ.

They have nothing to do with sin or salvation, (mercy) upon true repentance but the punishment due to sin. (Justice)

Example
A father may forgive (mercy) his son for hitting a ball thru the window, but the son will have work and pay for the window. (Justice)

Indulgences we’re never sold, that was only an accusation, there attached to a donation, the English Protestant statement “salvation by the shilling” was complete non-sense!