The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Truth7t7]

The bottom line here is that Paul taught that a mass falling away from the faith would occur and the man of sin would be revealed BEFORE the day Christ returns and we're gathered to Him. And you're not accepting that.

That's correct, Mark's denies the very clear scripture in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

 

[Truth7t7]

I think you're confusing confidence with arrogance. I'm totally confident that God's Word puts forth the post-trib message. As far as a dim view goes, I will say what seems to be most prominent - but certainly is not every case - among those with whom I disagree is a lack of backbone:

They prefer a made-up OSAS License to Sin instead of facing the reality that good works demonstrate Jesus sits enthroned on our heart and bad works demonstrates His absence from the same. They prefer the safety of their echo chambers and circle the intellectual wagons around their beliefs when a outside challenge presents itself. Many will sit on the sidelines and hurl insults and ridicule rather than suiting up and taking the field in the arena of theological ideas. We as Christians ought above anyone else to be able to remain agreeable while we disagree, right?

Do you believe Sunday observance is the mark of the beast as Ellen G. White taught?

Do you believe Ellen G. White actually had 2,000 dreams and visions as she claimed?

 

[Phoneman777]

I see. I stick with the Bible myself. Many people have many plans for what they want to do in the time to come. I've followed such things for a long time. They come, they go, they change, and no matter, God will do as God will do.

Just like the "Great Reset". They have plans, but God's are the plans that will happen.

Much love!

One thing I know for sure is that God isn't the author of evil, but merely withdraws His hand of protection and permits it. Even if only a fraction of what these wicked people are planning comes to pass, it will still be well enough to shatter the faith of pre-tribbers who expected to be long gone but are neck deep in it.

 

[Phoneman777]

The bottom line here is that Paul taught that a mass falling away from the faith would occur and the man of sin would be revealed BEFORE the day Christ returns and we're gathered to Him. And you're not accepting that.

I been saying for years that Antichrist MUST arise before Jesus comes back as a thief, because Peter says when He comes as a thief, there won't be 7 more seconds of anything going on down here, let alone 7 years.

 

[bluedragon]

Correct. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture, or more precisely Resurrection/Rapture is the true Bible doctrine. And all attacks against it are ultimately from the devil, who hates this truth. At the same time it is a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME to try and convince the naysayers and scoffers.

The greatest response publically that I ever witnessed pertaining to this was in airports all across North America at the time. The "Left Behind" series of books were being written and published. It seemed as if everyone was carrying one of the current or recent past books. I traveled every other week and could read one during a round trip. So I was always chomping at the bit for the next book to be published. I would be three books ahead and people would be asking "What happens to so and so? Never mind don't spoil it for me!" To me it was fun, strangers discussing a book about the Bible simply because you had one of the volumes in your hand.

 

[Phoneman777]

Do you believe Sunday observance is the mark of the beast as Ellen G. White taught?

Do you believe Ellen G. White actually had 2,000 dreams and visions as she claimed?

The Bible says the Mark has to do with God's commandments, for instance:

God's Law is what He wants in our forehead and the deceived get the Mark in the same, don't they?

Psalms 94 says in the end times, Satan's going to be working his deceptions "by a law", doesn't it?

Ezekiel 8 says God marked those who were faithful and those who were engaged in the worst form of apostasy - worshipping the "sun", right?

Revelation says those who do not get the Mark of the Beast are said to "keep the commandments of God", which means those who do get the Mark are breaking them.

The papacy says the "Mark" of her authority is Sunday "sacredness".

It just stands to reason that the only commandment both the papacy and professing Christians tells us we can safely forget is the only one that begins with the word, "Remember".

 

[Truth7t7]

The greatest response publically that I ever witnessed pertaining to this was in airports all across North America at the time. The "Left Behind" series of books were being written and published. It seemed as if everyone was carrying one of the current or recent past books. I traveled every other week and could read one during a round trip. So I was always chomping at the bit for the next book to be published. I would be three books ahead and people would be asking "What happens to so and so? Never mind don't spoil it for me!" To me it was fun, strangers discussing a book about the Bible simply because you had one of the volumes in your hand.

Tim LA Haye (Left Behind Series) Found In The Book Store Under (Science Fiction)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Isn't A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Dont Be Deceived

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Bible says the Mark has to do with God's commandments, for instance:

God's Law is what He wants in our forehead and the deceived get the Mark in the same, don't they?

Psalms 94 says in the end times, Satan's going to be working his deceptions "by a law", doesn't it?

Ezekiel 8 says God marked those who were faithful and those who were engaged in the worst form of apostasy - worshipping the "sun", right?

Revelation says those who do not get the Mark of the Beast are said to "keep the commandments of God", which means those who do get the Mark are breaking them.

The papacy says the "Mark" of her authority is Sunday "sacredness".

It just stands to reason that the only commandment both the papacy and professing Christians tells us we can safely forget is the only one that begins with the word, "Remember".

Breaking The Sabbath Day Commandment Isn't The Mark Of The Beast As Ellen G. White Falsely Taught And You Believe, Those That Receive The Mark Or Worship The Image Will Be Eternally In The Lake Of Fire, Not Being Called Least In The Kingdom Of Heaven As Seen Below

Ellen G. White, A False Prophetess

Matthew 5:19KJV
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Phoneman777]

Rather, with the real Christians gone, the fake Christians will be ripe for the plucking.

How in the world could anyone left behind be deceived when the evidence for a Biblical supernatural event has taken place? They will mark the exact moment everyone disappeared, calculate to the second when the 7 years is over, and drop a ball in Times Square as they countdown to zero, right?

 

[Phoneman777]

You mean the false-prophetess (Ellen G. White) and her spiritism in self proclaimed 2,000 dreams and visions

The false prediction in the 1844 proclaimed second coming of Jesus Christ, let's cover that false prediction up and call it the (Investigative Judgement)

Perhaps her grave marking bearing the Occultism Egyptian Obelisk, straight out of Occultic Freemasonry

Jehovahs Witnesses founder,, (Charles Taze Russel) is buried under the Egyptian Pyramid and Capstone, also out of occultic Freemasonry

EGW never predicted Jesus would come in 1844, so please stop listening to your Jesuit handlers and do a little research for yourself.

 

[The Light]

I think you're confusing confidence with arrogance. I'm totally confident that God's Word puts forth the post-trib message. As far as a dim view goes, I will say what seems to be most prominent - but certainly is not every case - among those with whom I disagree is a lack of backbone:
?

Why don't you bring that confidence and address the questions that I asked?

 

[Phoneman777]

What you think and the FACTS seem to differ. One stone upon another.

Also, you dodged the question I asked about the sign. I'll ask again. If there is not one stone upon another, what was the sign that happened when you say it occurred, and what sign did Jesus say would happen?

Where are the pictures of the stones that remain arranged as they were when the temple buildings were built? All I see are a bunch of stones that were pulled down and cast to the side.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, I did read it.

And I think you are missing my point. How many have to defect for it to be "the" apostacy? How do you know when this sign is fulfilled? I suggest that you cannot, because apostacy is something thats been happening thoughout Christian history, and there are no particular qualifiers in the text. So how do you know? There is nothing definitive here.

So what? Regardless of whether we can recognize it or not, Paul said it would happen first before Christ comes and we're gathered to Him. And the man of sin is revealed before then as well. But, you deny that anything needs to happen beforehand.

Like, when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, there's something you can look and see, and, "that's it!" But not in this case.

So what? Why does this matter? This is completely besides the point which is that Paul indicated that certain things have to happen first before the coming of Christ and our being gathered to Him occurs.

Again, How much "mass" is needed to know, this is it?

No, it's given as a sign. Unless the apostasia come first.

Don't be alarmed, Paul wrote, that day won't come but this happen first. But what happen? "Um, you'll know at the time."

You're all hung up on whether or not it's something that can be recognized (I believe it can be spiritually discerned), but nowhere did Paul indicate that it would be something easily recognized when it happens.

Look, the pre-trib rapture theory is possibly the weakest, least supportable doctrine in all of Christianity. You need to stop believing in it. It's just not even remotely taught anywhere in scripture. Jesus is descending from heaven once in the future at which point we will be gathered to Him and He will destroy His enemies. That is what Paul taught in 1 Thess 4:13-5:11 as well as 2 Thess 1:7-10 and it is the same event as Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 19:11-21. There's just no basis whatsoever for thinking that Jesus will descend from heaven more than once in the future.

 

[ewq1938]

It also describes things like a woman sitting on many waters while reading a beast with seven heads and ten horns. Is that literal, too?

You wouldn't have asked that if you knew what Revelation 17 says.

 

[Phoneman777]

Another error. What scripture gives you the impression that Jesus will return 7 years after a rapture?

There is no Scripture that supports Jesus' return after any rapture, 7 years or 3 1/2 years. Scripture says Jesus comes back in glory and power and Earthshattering thunder to collect the saints, both dead and living.

 

[Phoneman777]

You could quote your historicism source, Josephus.

Today, all of the temple blocks lie in ruins - nothing is yet "upon another", right?

 

[Phoneman777]

"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

These people are not dead.

It just stands to reason that the brightness of Jesus will light up the sky for all to see before He even gets close to Earth, but you can bet as soon as He in the clouds, every sinner who spotted His approach will have dropped dead by then.

 

[The Light]

How in the world could anyone left behind be deceived when the evidence for a Biblical supernatural event has taken place? They will mark the exact moment everyone disappeared, calculate to the second when the 7 years is over, and drop a ball in Times Square as they countdown to zero, right?

The is NO SCRIPTURE that says there are 7 years after the rapture.

Look around. The lie has been in place for years to explain the disappearance of people.......alien abductions.

How many movies have you seen in the last couple of years that show people vanishing?

 

[Phoneman777]

Breaking The Sabbath Day Commandment Isn't The Mark Of The Beast As Ellen G. White Falsely Taught And You Believe, Those That Receive The Mark Or Worship The Image Will Be Eternally In The Lake Of Fire, Not Being Called Least In The Kingdom Of Heaven As Seen Below

Ellen G. White, A False Prophetess

Matthew 5:19KJV
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The Beast claims its Mark is Sunday observance, so who are you to argue with them? Should I inform your Jesuit superiors of your rogue behavior?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You wouldn't have asked that if you knew what Revelation 17 says.

I wasn't asking as if I didn't know the answer. I was making a point. I asked the question because you conclude that Jesus will literally use a sword to kill people "because that is what the Bible describes in Revelation 19". So, my point is that the Bible also describes a woman sitting on many waters while riding on a beast with seven heads and ten horns, but that doesn't make it literal.