The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Taken]

The scripture below clearly teaches the church will be present on earth to witness the anticgrist revealed, you give complete disregard to this fact, because it opposes your Darbyusm pre-trib rapture, it's that simple

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4KJV
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Gathering unto “our Lord, Jesus Christ”.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Have you been “gathered” to the Lord?
I haven’t.

Hello, don’t be troubled...the DAY OF CHIRST, is at hand.

Okay, expected the Day of Christ to be soon.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Okay. Waiting patiently to be gathered to the Lord.
Not troubled.
Already know, the Day of Christ shall be soon.
Not troubled.
Already know, Before the Day of Christ arrives, men shall fall away.
Pretty much observing that now.
Already know, the man of sin shall be revealed, ie son of perdition, Before Christ’s day.
Already know man of sins plan.

Prepared, Patiently waiting without worry, (disgusting observing so many becoming anti-God, anti-Christ)...waiting for the Lord to gather me up.

What are you waiting for?
Gods Tribulation? Gods Wrath? Calling out to God, I’m here, I believe, I’m now ready to give life unto death for my belief in you?

 

[Taken]

So, do you think only those who believe in a pre-trib rapture do those things?

I believe God already has his DIVISIONAL check list.
Who has already given their life unto death for their belief in Him, and Who will Before His Tribulation, Who hasn’t, or will not.

The Church is the Converted, for what purpose are they on earth Suffering Gods Tribulation and Wrath?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe God already has his DIVISIONAL check list.

Who has already given their life unto death for their belief in Him, and Who will Before His Tribulation, Who hasn’t, or will not.

Where is this taught in scripture?

The Church is the Converted, for what purpose are they on earth Suffering Gods Tribulation and Wrath?

Why do you think they would suffer His Wrath? Of course they would not. Do you think He is incapable of protecting His people on the earth while sending down wrath? It's only His final global wrath which will occur on the day Christ returns (2 Peter 3:10-13, 1 Thess 4:13-5:11, 2 Thess 1:7-10) that would require us to be taken off of the earth in order to avoid it.

 

[The Light]

Big Smiles!

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 was written to the Church at Thessalonika, which is now the largest city in Greece

2 Thessalonians 1:1KJV
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

Look out your window! I sent over an entire marching band to celebrate your victory. Bet that felt good. What was I thinking? It is the twelve tribes that will be gathered from the earth immediately after the tribulation. But it is the Church that is gathered from heaven so of course it is also meant for the Church.

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

I celebrate your victory and pray you rest easy tonight. Hope the band doesn't keep you awake. I paid for 24 hours.:)

 

[marks]

Does the scripture state the church will be on earth to see the (Man Of Sin) revealed?

No it does not, in fact say that. If it did, you would quote the place.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You completely missed the point. He was not talking about apostasy in general, he was talking about mass apostasy. Did you read the passage I showed you?

Yes, I did read it.

And I think you are missing my point. How many have to defect for it to be "the" apostacy? How do you know when this sign is fulfilled? I suggest that you cannot, because apostacy is something thats been happening thoughout Christian history, and there are no particular qualifiers in the text. So how do you know? There is nothing definitive here.

Like, when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, there's something you can look and see, and, "that's it!" But not in this case.

Paul talked about the falling away as a future event, not as something that was happening back then already, so arguing that apostasy has always been happening to some extent is not an argument against the belief that he was talking about a MASS falling away from the faith.

Again, How much "mass" is needed to know, this is it?

There isn't any one thing that will happen that tells us this. It has to be spiritually discerned.

No, it's given as a sign. Unless the apostasia come first.

Don't be alarmed, Paul wrote, that day won't come but this happen first. But what happen? "Um, you'll know at the time."

?

Much love!

 

[The Light]

Your actively participating in a Pre-Trib Raptyre thread, and you don't know who Adulterer C.I. Scofield is "Really"

His 1909 reference Bible that contained Darby's teachings in the margins, is the greatest world influence planting dispensationalism into the hearts and minds of the unaware

C.I Scofield is a major foundation in dispensationalism's world headquarters at Dallas Theological Cemetary, founded in C.I. Scofield's Dallas Chyrcg as a Bible course, led by his disciple and prodigy in Lewis S. Chafer

I think you are missing the whole point. The point is, "Taken" has not read any of that and came to the conclusion that there will be a pretrib rapture just by reading the Word.

 

[marks]

I disagree. I don't think you are the Greek grammar expert that you think you are. So, tell me what exactly do you think would have troubled them if the day of Christ had already come back then without them being gathered to Christ?

I'm not a Greek Grammar Expert, no, and I don't pretend to be. But I have some education in Greek, and this isn't one of the hard ones.

It's in that perfect tense of "come", check it out yourself, don't accept my word. I'm not an expert. Why not see what the experts have to say about that form of that word? As though the Day of Christ has come.

They were troubled thinking that the present persecution was the Day of the LORD, and that they hadn't understood correctly. They were thinking that the rapture comes before the Day of the LORD, and now people were telling them, NO, the day of the Lord is here now, and surprise! You're going through it!

NO, no, that day won't come but the apostasia come first, and the man of sin be revealed. No departure? No revealing the man of sin? It's not the day of the Lord!

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Heard his name mentioned on this forum.

You didn’t answer, Do you own or have you read his Bible?

Yes I have read the 1909 Scofield and it's 1917 revision

 

[marks]

I think you are missing the whole point. The point is, "Taken" has not read any of that and came to the conclusion that there will be a pretrib rapture just by reading the Word.

I've never read anything by Darby myself. It's a smokescreen is all.

Much love!

 

[Timtofly]

Interesting. Which temple buildings remain intact from the destruction today? I always thought the entire temple with all it's buildings was razed to the ground in their search for the melted gold.

You could quote your historicism source, Josephus.

 

[Timtofly]

How will anyone who misses the Rapture drop to their knees in worship when they'll be dropping dead "at the brightness of His coming"?

(The Rapture and the Second Coming are simultaneous events that take place on the same day)

"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

These people are not dead.

 

[Truth7t7]

No it does not, in fact say that. If it did, you would quote the place.

Much love!

We Disagree, Scripture Below Clearly Teaches The Church Will Be Present On Earth To Witness The "Apostasy" and "Man Of Sin" revealed

Willful Disregard In Personal Bias For A Pre-Trib Rapture, It's That Simple

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4KJV
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Timtofly]

This is all obvious to everyone. Why do you think there is even the need to make an obvious point like this? There isn't.

So what? The Bible doesn't have to declare them to be symbols in order to be symbols. That's my point. Such as the sword coming out of Christ's mouth. That is a symbol, but it doesn't specifically tell us that.

So, apparently, you think that to lack scriptural authority just means there isn't anything that explicitly calls something a symbol even though we can spiritually discern that, such as in the example I gave of the sword coming out of Christ's mouth. Seems kind of silly to call that a case of lacking scriptural authority. Let's say someone thinks that the sword coming out of Christ's mouth is a literal sword. Do you think that person would have the scriptural authority to say so just because it doesn't specifically say that the sword is symbolic?

Are those at Armageddon symbolically dead, or just plain physically dead? Why would it matter if the sword is literal or symbolic? The end result is that these humans are physically dead.

 

[Timtofly]

You believe and teach the Church "Won't" be on earth to see the antichrist revealed, a direct disregard to the warnings and teachings in scripture

Jesus Love!

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4KJV
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Do you think Satan will have a news conference soon?

 

[Phoneman777]

I guess you are trusting man over God. Probably not a great argument, to let humans dictate God's Will.

Jesus said long ago that massive deception would characterize the last days, which is exactly what these Luciferians are planning to do, so if anything, what we see coming to pass should be cause for us to put MORE CONFIDENCE AND TRUST in God's Word, and nothing else. Now, let's dispense with your juvenile statement and focus on the issue at hand: The Luciferians who run the world claim the tumultuous chaos they've planned to unleash upon the world will cause Christians to become "disillusioned" - the question on the table is this:

Q. If post-tribbers already expect to have to endure this chaos and are prayerfully preparing to meet it, who is it that alone remains vulnerable to this "disillusionment"?

A. The pre-tribbers who expected to be up there by the time the dookey is hitting the proverbial fan down here. It's not a question of whether this will happen, but of whether pre-tribbers will swallow their pride and finally accept the post-trib message or fall victim to the Luciferian counterfeit Second Coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm not a Greek Grammar Expert, no, and I don't pretend to be. But I have some education in Greek, and this isn't one of the hard ones.

It's in that perfect tense of "come", check it out yourself, don't accept my word. I'm not an expert. Why not see what the experts have to say about that form of that word? As though the Day of Christ has come.

They were troubled thinking that the present persecution was the Day of the LORD, and that they hadn't understood correctly. They were thinking that the rapture comes before the Day of the LORD, and now people were telling them, NO, the day of the Lord is here now, and surprise! You're going through it!

NO, no, that day won't come but the apostasia come first, and the man of sin be revealed. No departure? No revealing the man of sin? It's not the day of the Lord!

The bottom line here is that Paul taught that a mass falling away from the faith would occur and the man of sin would be revealed BEFORE the day Christ returns and we're gathered to Him. And you're not accepting that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are those at Armageddon symbolically dead, or just plain physically dead? Why would it matter if the sword is literal or symbolic? The end result is that these humans are physically dead.

They will be physically killed. The reason it matters whether the sword is literal or symbolic is because some premils deny that 2 Peter 3:10-12 is referring to the day Christ returns because they say the destruction described in Revelation 19 isn't caused by fire. But, the literal method Christ will use to destroy His enemies when He returns is not given in Revelation 19, so that is not a valid argument to make against 2 Peter 3:10-12 and Revelation 19:11-21 being the same event.

 

[Truth7t7]

They will be physically killed. The reason it matters whether the sword is literal or symbolic is because some premils deny that 2 Peter 3:10-12 is referring to the day Christ returns because they say the destruction described in Revelation 19 isn't caused by fire. But, the literal method Christ will use to destroy His enemies when He returns is not given in Revelation 19, so that is not a valid argument to make against 2 Peter 3:10-12 and Revelation 19:11-21 being the same event.

Yes the second coming is seen in "Many" parallel teachings in scripture, many show the coming in fire and final Judgement, others don't show this, however they are all the very same second coming

Yes Millennialist want to disregard the many scriptures that show the second coming in fire, and look towards a neutral coming to maintain the Zionist fairy tale teaching of a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth, where Jews rule the earth from Jerusalem

 

[Phoneman777]

You seem to take a pretty dim view of the those who think differently than do you.

Do you realize that we are all taught to expect persecution? Just like you?

Do you realize, we do not think that because Jesus will rapture the church pre-trib, that we won't have trouble in life?

Anxious for an ideal, eh? We have Christ Himself.

Much love!

I think you're confusing confidence with arrogance. I'm totally confident that God's Word puts forth the post-trib message. As far as a dim view goes, I will say what seems to be most prominent - but certainly is not every case - among those with whom I disagree is a lack of backbone:

They prefer a made-up OSAS License to Sin instead of facing the reality that good works demonstrate Jesus sits enthroned on our heart and bad works demonstrates His absence from the same. They prefer the safety of their echo chambers and circle the intellectual wagons around their beliefs when a outside challenge presents itself. Many will sit on the sidelines and hurl insults and ridicule rather than suiting up and taking the field in the arena of theological ideas. We as Christians ought above anyone else to be able to remain agreeable while we disagree, right?