Eph 2:8

[Jim B]

When did I say to worship Mary?

You clearly do worship Mary. You (and other Catholics) create statues of her (idolatry), pray to her, and create myths about her (forever virgin).

 

[Davy]

As usual you misinterpret Scripture.

1 John 3:2, " Beloved, we are God’s children now [present tense]; what we will be [future tense] has not yet been revealed. What we do know is this: when he is revealed, we will be like him, for we will see him as he is.

We are God's children now, not in the future. We will have a different body, but the fact remains that we are right now His children.

I prefer the KJV of that verse...

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
KJV

Have you ever thought about why... John said that above in red? It is because He was present when Lord Jesus appeared right in the midst of them out of nowhere. He well knew our flesh body cannot do that, so Jesus' resurrected body must be different somehow. Jesus did that appearing-disappearing in the midst of them more than once after His resurrection.

This means, per John, that if you think the flesh body you have now is the very same type body Lord Jesus had after His resurrection, then it would mean calling Apostle John a liar. Why? Because John said he didn't know what the future body really is with, "and it doth not yet appear what we shall be". John didn't know.

But what John said that he did... know, is that when Jesus appears, we will be like Him, i.e., be in the same kind of body as His. In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul taught that future body type is a "spiritual body", and he also showed that Christ was made "a quickening spirit" (1 Corinthians 15:35-50). Apostle Paul in that 1 Corinthians 15 chapter even marked when that 'change' to the "spiritual body" will happen, i.e., on the "last trump" with the resurrection, which we all know is the day of Christ's future return.

Also, it for those reasons that we also know that the reference to that "sons of God" phrase in The Old Testament was about the angelic state, a heavenly image body. No flesh persons were ever called that "sons of God" in the Old Testament time (see Book of Job).

 

[Jim B]

So... you ALREADY are walking on earth today in your glorious body of the future that is ONLY revealed on the day of Christ's future coming?

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
KJV

Are you not aware that "sons of God" label is a pointer to that future glorious body that we will manifest when Jesus returns?

You are conflating two entirely separate ideas. I am saved, right now, in this life. This has nothing to do with living in the resurrected glorious body.

1 John 3:2, " Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be (future tense) has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him (future tense), for we shall see him as he is.

It saddens me that you either don't understand or intentionally ridicule what the Bible clearly says.

 

[Jim B]

I prefer the KJV of that verse...

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
KJV

Have you ever thought about why... John said that above in red? It is because He was present when Lord Jesus appeared right in the midst of them out of nowhere. He well knew our flesh body cannot do that, so Jesus' resurrected body must be different somehow. Jesus did that appearing-disappearing in the midst of them more than once after His resurrection.

This means, per John, that if you think the flesh body you have now is the very same type body Lord Jesus had after His resurrection, then it would mean calling Apostle John a liar. Why? Because John said he didn't know what the future body really is with, "and it doth not yet appear what we shall be". John didn't know.

But what John said that he did... know, is that when Jesus appears, we will be like Him, i.e., be in the same kind of body as His. In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul taught that future body type is a "spiritual body", and he also showed that Christ was made "a quickening spirit" (1 Corinthians 15:35-50). Apostle Paul in that 1 Corinthians 15 chapter even marked when that 'change' to the "spiritual body" will happen, i.e., on the "last trump" with the resurrection, which we all know is the day of Christ's future return.

Also, it for those reasons that we also know that the reference to that "sons of God" phrase in The Old Testament was about the angelic state, a heavenly image body. No flesh persons were ever called that "sons of God" in the Old Testament time (see Book of Job).

You're delusional. See my previous post.

 

[Davy]

When did I say to worship Mary?

You pushed that idea with your following statement...

the redemption accomplished by Christ in which Mary ever virgin mother of God believed for us and obtained all graces for us!

Sorry, but the virgin Mary did NOT 'believe for us and obtain all graces for us'.

Each individual MUST believe on The Father through His Son's Blood shed upon His cross for the remission of sins, to be given eternal life. It is NOT up to Mary to decide that for us.

So just who... would have a thought about Mary like that? Catholics.

 

[Davy]

You are conflating two entirely separate ideas. I am saved, right now, in this life. This has nothing to do with living in the resurrected glorious body.

1 John 3:2, " Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be (future tense) has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him (future tense), for we shall see him as he is.

It saddens me that you either don't understand or intentionally ridicule what the Bible clearly says.

We are 'saved' when Jesus returns in the future, and until then, we 'each' are work out our own salvation (with Him and through Him, of course)...

Phil 2:11-12
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
KJV

Now that's Apostle Paul speaking there, not me.

The matter is very simple, we are to stay on 'watch' all the days of our lives, checking ourselves for sin, and working for The LORD, each according to his/her calling. And that means walking by The Spirit according to Paul in Galatians, even up to the day we die, or on the last trump change when Jesus returns. That means, don't let your guard down.

But what the 'once saved, always saved' (OSAS) doctrine of men does, is make many falsely think they cannot sin anymore after having believed on Jesus Christ and been baptized. They think they cannot ever... fall away. That false doctrine is actually designed to trick brethren into NOT checking theirselves for sin, and not pay attention to their 'walk', and thus refuse even to repent anymore.

And for this present time in the this world, that OSAS is a very bad doctrine to have, because it means not being prepared for the "great tribulation" events that are soon to come in this present generation for the end. Is all this meant to be negative? Absolutely not, because Lord Jesus and His Apostles especially warned us about these times in the latter days. One of Lord Jesus' main warnings was to not allow any man to deceive us.

So let's wait and see after Jesus' future return, when He will destroy the coming world beast kingdom and the beast king, and then we will know just who... is 'saved' because they refused to bow to that coming beast king that will play God on this earth doing all kinds of great signs and wonders.

 

[Davy]

You're delusional. See my previous post.

Then I have to think you wrongly believe the resurrection body is a FLESH body.

And in that case, that idea would be going directly against what Apostle Paul taught is the resurrection body, a "spiritual body". And Paul also said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 15:50). So I rest my case.

 

[theefaith]

None of us believers living today are 'saved' yet, we only have the PROMISE of being saved by Jesus at His future coming.

The 'are you saved' question belongs to those of men's doctrines who think once you believe on Jesus, then you have no more future sins to repent and ask Him forgiveness for, i.e., like the false OSAS movement of men.

why does he promise us salvation?
Believers?

 

[Jim B]

We are 'saved' when Jesus returns in the future, and until then, we 'each' are work out our own salvation (with Him and through Him, of course)...

Phil 2:11-12
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
KJV

Now that's Apostle Paul speaking there, not me.

The matter is very simple, we are to stay on 'watch' all the days of our lives, checking ourselves for sin, and working for The LORD, each according to his/her calling. And that means walking by The Spirit according to Paul in Galatians, even up to the day we die, or on the last trump change when Jesus returns. That means, don't let your guard down.

But what the 'once saved, always saved' (OSAS) doctrine of men does, is make many falsely think they cannot sin anymore after having believed on Jesus Christ and been baptized. They think they cannot ever... fall away. That false doctrine is actually designed to trick brethren into NOT checking theirselves for sin, and not pay attention to their 'walk', and thus refuse even to repent anymore.

And for this present time in the this world, that OSAS is a very bad doctrine to have, because it means not being prepared for the "great tribulation" events that are soon to come in this present generation for the end. Is all this meant to be negative? Absolutely not, because Lord Jesus and His Apostles especially warned us about these times in the latter days. One of Lord Jesus' main warnings was to not allow any man to deceive us.

So let's wait and see after Jesus' future return, when He will destroy the coming world beast kingdom and the beast king, and then we will know just who... is 'saved' because they refused to bow to that coming beast king that will play God on this earth doing all kinds of great signs and wonders.

Ephesians 2:8-9, " For by grace you are saved [present tense] through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast." Nothing more needs to be said.

I believe the Bible, not your false interpretation.

And don't conflate the 'once saved, always saved' (OSAS) doctrine with this. That is deliberately twisting God's word.

 

[Jim B]

Then I have to think you wrongly believe the resurrection body is a FLESH body.

And in that case, that idea would be going directly against what Apostle Paul taught is the resurrection body, a "spiritual body". And Paul also said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 15:50). So I rest my case.

Again, you're delusional. If you rest your case then stop posting!

 

[theefaith]

Your verse is Paul teaching that SALVATiON is the GIFT...........not the Faith.
And that God gives this GIFT........through your faith.

Then we earn or buy salvation with faith?

 

[theefaith]

Your verse is Paul teaching that SALVATiON is the GIFT...........not the Faith.
And that God gives this GIFT........through your faith.

thats works if I have to be involved

 

[theefaith]

None of us believers living today are 'saved' yet, we only have the PROMISE of being saved by Jesus at His future coming.

The 'are you saved' question belongs to those of men's doctrines who think once you believe on Jesus, then you have no more future sins to repent and ask Him forgiveness for, i.e., like the false OSAS movement of men.

salvation relies on hope then!

what happened to faith alone???

“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is not found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

 

[theefaith]

Why must you continually distort God's word? "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16

If you pay attention, this says that baptism will not keep you from being condemned. If you don't believe, you are condemned! Baptism will not save you!

Then baptism is meaningless?
Why even mention it?

 

[theefaith]

Why must you continually distort God's word?

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16

If you pay attention, this says that baptism will not keep you from being condemned. If you don't believe, you are condemned! Baptism will not save you!

Eph 1:13 4:30 sealed

where does it say you’re sealed by “faith alone”?

Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if one rejects faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

So don’t negate the word of God or Jesus by trying to delete one verse with another.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Nowhere does scripture say salvation is by “faith alone”! Rom 13:11
Or that we died with Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we put in Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we are in the church by “faith alone”!

God says baptism! Ez 36:25:27
Jesus Christ says baptism! Mk 16:16
Peter says baptism! Acts 3:38 1 Pet 3:21
Paul say baptism! 1 cor 1:16 1 cor 12:13
The apostles say baptism! Acts 2:38 acts 8:36-38
For 2000 yrs the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always taught baptism per matt 28:19

Jn 10:10 life more abundantly

Eph 4: 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Jn 1:16-17 grace life


Ez 36:25-27 promise of justification by washing away sins by virtue the merits of Christ blood, sanctified by the grace of God, given a new heart of love by the Holy Spirit!

 

[theefaith]

Nonsense (again).

Luke 1:10-11, "And when the time for the burning of incense came, all the assembled worshipers were praying outside. Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense.

Luke 1:45, "Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!” Said by Elizabeth.

sorry it’s Lk 2:10-11 savior

 

[theefaith]

You clearly do worship Mary. You (and other Catholics) create statues of her (idolatry), pray to her, and create myths about her (forever virgin).

I was baptized catholic at 16!
16 days old that is and I have never once worshipped Mary!

statues are not idols nor forbidden

 

[theefaith]

You pushed that idea with your following statement...



Sorry, but the virgin Mary did NOT 'believe for us and obtain all graces for us'.

Each individual MUST believe on The Father through His Son's Blood shed upon His cross for the remission of sins, to be given eternal life. It is NOT up to Mary to decide that for us.

So just who... would have a thought about Mary like that? Catholics.

Eph 2:8 says “saved us” past tense so it happened 2000 yrs ago so you’re “faith alone” today is not what it’s referring to!

Lk 1:45 Mary believed
Lk 1:28 full of grace
Heb 4:16 throne of grace
Only a king and queen sit on a throne

 

[theefaith]

Oops sorry it really means faith!

Revelation 2:23
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

where’s the beatitude that says

blessed are those who have “faith alone” for they are saved!

 

[Davy]

why does he promise us salvation?
Believers?

Do you actually believe that Christ's Salvation is FOR this PRESENT WORLD?

That's what the 'Kingdom Now' doctrines of men believe today, but that idea is false. God's Word shows this present world is preserved unto destruction by fire! (2 Peter 3:10).