Imagine a World with no Christians!

[Marty fox]

But if the prophesy was just for the Disciples, why add it to the Gospels?
Nothing for the Church?

It wasn’t just to the deciples they would see things in their life time but the warning was for a church living in Jerusalem

 

[James Macbeth]

It wasn’t just to the deciples they would see things in their life time but the warning was for a church living in Jerusalem

Well, that's just your opinion.

 

[Marty fox]

Well, that's just your opinion.

Or historical fact

 

[Enoch111]

My point was jerome was simply recopying .

To the best of my knowledge Jerome made his own translation of the Bible. He also recognized that the apocryphal books were not inspired. HE wanted to exclude them from the Latin Vulgate, but was overridden by the pope of the time.

 

[Behold]

To the best of my knowledge Jerome made his own translation of the Bible. He also recognized that the apocryphal books were not inspired. HE wanted to exclude them from the Latin Vulgate, but was overridden by the pope of the time.

Jerome inadvertently created The Protestant Reformation.
So, you can thank Him.

How did he do it?
His Translation is his own theology in so many places......Like mistranslating "Penance" instead of "Repentance".
In fact it was this very IGNORANT mistranslation of that very word, that has Catholics doing "penance" that isn't required.
So, you can thank Jerome for that one the next time you are counting your Beads.

Martin Luther, was a CC Translator, and he read Jerome's, mess., and that began his walk out of the Catholic Dark Ages and into the glorious Light of Justification by Faith.

The rest is "history".

 

[James Macbeth]

To the best of my knowledge Jerome made his own translation of the Bible. He also recognized that the apocryphal books were not inspired. HE wanted to exclude them from the Latin Vulgate, but was overridden by the pope of the time.

Can you provide evidence?

 

[ewq1938]

Coming from the individual who believes in 2 spirits one body...

Those who have the Holy Spirit indeed have two spirits. (BTW the Romans did not speak "Roman")

 

[James Macbeth]

Jerome inadvertently created The Protestant Reformation.
So, you can thank Him.

How did he do it?
His Translation is his own theology in so many places......Like mistranslating "Penance" instead of "Repentance".
In fact it was this very IGNORANT mistranslation of that very word, that has Catholics doing "penance" that isn't required.
So, you can thank Jerome for that one the next time you are counting your Beads.

Martin Luther, was a CC Translator, and he read Jerome's, mess., and that began his walk out of the Catholic Dark Ages and into the glorious Light of Justification by Faith.

The rest is "history".

The word in Aramaic is Return.
That is the original word. A Jewish concept of repentance.
Please Master, how do you translate the Aramaic word Return, and it's meaning?

And the word repentance is just an Angelo-Norman way of saying penance. And Saint Jerome said Do Penance.

Blind guiding the blind...

 

[ewq1938]

Without wanting to sound offensive, does anyone have any idea what James Macbeth is on about?

Yes, at least some of it:

He believes the verse should be this:

Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall all indeed rise again; but we shall not all be changed.

"not all be changed" and thinks this verse is wrong:

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

So he denies some will not die/sleep but survive to be changed and raptured as well as denying "all shall be changed".

 

[ewq1938]

Only two translations I know of have the wrong translation:

DRA
Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall all indeed rise again: but we shall not all be changed.

JUB
¶ Behold, I show you a mystery: We shall all indeed be raised, but we shall not all be changed;

While most have it the correct way:

KJ21
Behold, I show you a mystery: We shall not all sleep; but we shall all be changed
ASV
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed,
AMP
Listen very carefully, I tell you a mystery [a secret truth decreed by God and previously hidden, but now revealed]; we will not all sleep [in death], but we will all be [completely] changed [wondrously transformed],
AMPC
Take notice! I tell you a mystery (a secret truth, an event decreed by the hidden purpose or counsel of God). We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed (transformed)
BRG
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
CSB
Listen, I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
CEB
Listen, I’m telling you a secret: All of us won’t die, but we will all be changed—
CJB
Look, I will tell you a secret — not all of us will die! But we will all be changed!
CEV
I will explain a mystery to you. Not every one of us will die, but we will all be changed.
DARBY
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed,
DLNT
Behold, I tell you a mystery: we will not all fall-asleep. But we will all be changed—
ERV
But listen, I tell you this secret: We will not all die, but we will all be changed.
EHV
Look, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
ESV
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
ESVUK
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
EXB
But look! I tell you ·this secret [a mystery; 2:1]: We will not all ·sleep in death [L sleep; C a euphemism for death], but we will all be changed.
GNV
Behold, I show you a secret thing, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
GW
I’m telling you a mystery. Not all of us will die, but we will all be changed.
GNT
Listen to this secret truth: we shall not all die, but when the last trumpet sounds, we shall all be changed in an instant, as quickly as the blinking of an eye. For when the trumpet sounds, the dead will be raised, never to die again, and we shall all be changed.
HCSB
Listen! I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
ICB
But listen, I tell you this secret: We will not all die, but we will all be changed.

 

[ewq1938]

ISV
Let me tell you a secret. Not all of us will die, but all of us will be changed—
PHILLIPS
Listen, and I will tell you a secret. We shall not all die, but suddenly, in the twinkling of an eye, every one of us will be changed as the trumpet sounds! The trumpet will sound and the dead shall be raised beyond the reach of corruption, and we who are still alive shall suddenly be utterly changed. For this perishable nature of ours must be wrapped in imperishability, these bodies which are mortal must be wrapped in immortality.
KJV
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
AKJV
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
LEB
Behold, I tell you a mystery: we will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
TLB
But I am telling you this strange and wonderful secret: we shall not all die, but we shall all be given new bodies!
MSG
But let me tell you something wonderful, a mystery I’ll probably never fully understand. We’re not all going to die—but we are all going to be changed. You hear a blast to end all blasts from a trumpet, and in the time that you look up and blink your eyes—it’s over. On signal from that trumpet from heaven, the dead will be up and out of their graves, beyond the reach of death, never to die again. At the same moment and in the same way, we’ll all be changed. In the resurrection scheme of things, this has to happen: everything perishable taken off the shelves and replaced by the imperishable, this mortal replaced by the immortal. Then the saying will come true: Death swallowed by triumphant Life! Who got the last word, oh, Death? Oh, Death, who’s afraid of you now? It was sin that made death so frightening and law-code guilt that gave sin its leverage, its destructive power. But now in a single victorious stroke of Life, all three—sin, guilt, death—are gone, the gift of our Master, Jesus Christ. Thank God!
MEV
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.
MOUNCE
Listen, I tell you a mystery: we will not all die, but we will all be changed—
NOG
I’m telling you a mystery. Not all of us will die, but we will all be changed.
NABRE
Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
NASB
Behold, I am telling you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
NASB1995
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
NCB
Listen while I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed
NCV
But look! I tell you this secret: We will not all sleep in death, but we will all be changed.
NET
Listen, I will tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
NIRV
Listen! I am telling you a mystery. We will not all die. But we will all be changed.
NIV
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
NIVUK
Listen, I tell you a mystery: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed –
NKJV
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
NLV
For sure, I am telling you a secret. We will not all die, but we will all be changed.
NLT
But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
NMB
Behold, I show you a mystery: we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
NRSVA
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed,
NRSVACE
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed,
NRSVCE
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed,
NRSVUE
Look, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed,
NTE
Look! I’m telling you a mystery. We won’t all sleep; we’re all going to be changed –
OJB
Hinei! I speak a sod (mystery) to you: we will not all sleep the sleep of the Mesim, but we will all be changed.
RGT
Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
RSV
Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
RSVCE
Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
TLV
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
VOICE
Stay close because I am going to tell you a mystery—something you may have trouble understanding: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be transformed.
WEB
Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
WE
Listen! I tell you a secret. We will not all die, but we will all be changed. It will happen very quickly, as fast as one can shut his eyes. It will be when the trumpet or horn is blown the last time. Someone will blow the trumpet, dead people will rise, and they will never die again. We ourselves will be changed.
WYC
Lo! I say to you private of holy things [Lo! I say to you mystery, or private, of holy things]. And all we shall rise again, but not all we shall be changed;
YLT
lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;

 

[amigo de christo]

To the best of my knowledge Jerome made his own translation of the Bible. He also recognized that the apocryphal books were not inspired. HE wanted to exclude them from the Latin Vulgate, but was overridden by the pope of the time.

Enoch you might know this answer . I cant seem to remember if it was jerome or augustine who actually said the CC was the whore .
One of them said this . I know they were both in it . But i seem to remember having read that one of them actually said that .
My advice is , DONT follow augustine at all . I remember reading in the library some of His teachings . I cant remember it anymore .
But i do remember at the time i knew things were off .

 

[amigo de christo]

What do these things have to do with the Rapture, or Latin Text?

They dont . But i have such heaviness and great sadness for those who are stuck in the CC . As well as those who are stuck
in the many falsehoods in so many churches . The falling away , apostacy is massive now . Only most folks
are seeing it as the great awakening as more and more join in unity with the great harlot who sits upon many waters and her daughters .

 

[James Macbeth]

Those who have the Holy Spirit indeed have two spirits. (BTW the Romans did not speak "Roman")

You know what I meant...

And I when I asked you the first time if you were talking about the holy Ghost, you said no.

Now you're changing your story?

 

[James Macbeth]

They dont . But i have such heaviness and great sadness for those who are stuck in the CC . As well as those who are stuck
in the many falsehoods in so many churches . The falling away , apostacy is massive now . Only most folks
are seeing it as the great awakening as more and more join in unity with the great harlot who sits upon many waters and her daughters .

Ok Master please teach us the truth...
Blind guiding the blind...

 

[James Macbeth]

Enoch you might know this answer . I cant seem to remember if it was jerome or augustine who actually said the CC was the whore .
One of them said this . I know they were both in it . But i seem to remember having read that one of them actually said that .
My advice is , DONT follow augustine at all . I remember reading in the library some of His teachings . I cant remember it anymore .
But i do remember at the time i knew things were off .

More hearsay with zero examples.
Please focus.

 

[James Macbeth]

Yes, at least some of it:

He believes the verse should be this:

Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall all indeed rise again; but we shall not all be changed.

"not all be changed" and thinks this verse is wrong:

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

So he denies some will not die/sleep but survive to be changed and raptured as well as denying "all shall be changed".

That's in the Original Latin Bible.
Look it up in the Douai Rheims.
Not my words.
All your quotes are from corrupted Greek manuscripts.
So simple.

 

[James Macbeth]

ISV
Let me tell you a secret. Not all of us will die, but all of us will be changed—
PHILLIPS
Listen, and I will tell you a secret. We shall not all die, but suddenly, in the twinkling of an eye, every one of us will be changed as the trumpet sounds! The trumpet will sound and the dead shall be raised beyond the reach of corruption, and we who are still alive shall suddenly be utterly changed. For this perishable nature of ours must be wrapped in imperishability, these bodies which are mortal must be wrapped in immortality.
KJV
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
AKJV
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
LEB
Behold, I tell you a mystery: we will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
TLB
But I am telling you this strange and wonderful secret: we shall not all die, but we shall all be given new bodies!
MSG
But let me tell you something wonderful, a mystery I’ll probably never fully understand. We’re not all going to die—but we are all going to be changed. You hear a blast to end all blasts from a trumpet, and in the time that you look up and blink your eyes—it’s over. On signal from that trumpet from heaven, the dead will be up and out of their graves, beyond the reach of death, never to die again. At the same moment and in the same way, we’ll all be changed. In the resurrection scheme of things, this has to happen: everything perishable taken off the shelves and replaced by the imperishable, this mortal replaced by the immortal. Then the saying will come true: Death swallowed by triumphant Life! Who got the last word, oh, Death? Oh, Death, who’s afraid of you now? It was sin that made death so frightening and law-code guilt that gave sin its leverage, its destructive power. But now in a single victorious stroke of Life, all three—sin, guilt, death—are gone, the gift of our Master, Jesus Christ. Thank God!
MEV
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.
MOUNCE
Listen, I tell you a mystery: we will not all die, but we will all be changed—
NOG
I’m telling you a mystery. Not all of us will die, but we will all be changed.
NABRE
Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
NASB
Behold, I am telling you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
NASB1995
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
NCB
Listen while I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed
NCV
But look! I tell you this secret: We will not all sleep in death, but we will all be changed.
NET
Listen, I will tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
NIRV
Listen! I am telling you a mystery. We will not all die. But we will all be changed.
NIV
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
NIVUK
Listen, I tell you a mystery: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed –
NKJV
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
NLV
For sure, I am telling you a secret. We will not all die, but we will all be changed.
NLT
But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
NMB
Behold, I show you a mystery: we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
NRSVA
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed,
NRSVACE
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed,
NRSVCE
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed,
NRSVUE
Look, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed,
NTE
Look! I’m telling you a mystery. We won’t all sleep; we’re all going to be changed –
OJB
Hinei! I speak a sod (mystery) to you: we will not all sleep the sleep of the Mesim, but we will all be changed.
RGT
Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
RSV
Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
RSVCE
Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
TLV
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
VOICE
Stay close because I am going to tell you a mystery—something you may have trouble understanding: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be transformed.
WEB
Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
WE
Listen! I tell you a secret. We will not all die, but we will all be changed. It will happen very quickly, as fast as one can shut his eyes. It will be when the trumpet or horn is blown the last time. Someone will blow the trumpet, dead people will rise, and they will never die again. We ourselves will be changed.
WYC
Lo! I say to you private of holy things [Lo! I say to you mystery, or private, of holy things]. And all we shall rise again, but not all we shall be changed;
YLT
lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;

In your haste and paste you just quoted the Wycliffe Bible... Which agrees with me...
Focus!

 

[Hidden In Him]

So he denies some will not die/sleep but survive to be changed and raptured as well as denying "all shall be changed".

Thank you, EWQ.

For Jerome, I think the meaning ended up coming out the same as in the Greek texts, only he was inverting the phrases and changing the word usage somewhat, presumably to make the teaching more clearly understandable.

So IMO the Rapture will be when all Christians die (at once), and are caught up with the Saints and our Lord Jesus.

Kinda like when God killed all the first born in Egypt.

James, if you are interpreting "but we shall not all be changed" to mean he is refuting the notion of a transformation in the air, then you are operating under the assumption that there was a heresy already out there to that effect, and that Paul (according to Jerome) was refuting it. This assumes:

1. that the supposedly "false" teaching was already being taught somewhere by someone,
2. that Paul was here refuting it, and
3. that Jerome, in keeping with what Paul presumably taught, was likewise denouncing a transformation in the air as well.

What would be the evidence to support these contentions?

 

[MatthewG]

Imagine a World with no Christians!

It would still be people sacrificing goats and bulls to the LORD to have our sins covered every year.