Women Speaking and Ministering in Church

[Davy]

Children have parents that aught to teach them. Sunday school is unbiblical.

Sorry, but you are simply being fanatical.

Acts 18:24-26
24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
KJV

What you actually sound like regarding women and the Church comes more from the religion of Islam, and not Christianity. Our wives are not like 'property' that we men own. Women themselves can even PRAY... to God, without us!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

What you actually sound like regarding women and the Church comes more from the religion of Islam, and not Christianity

I see you haven’t read your Bible lately…

 

[Davy]

I see you haven’t read your Bible lately…

Oh, I've read it alright, but the difference on this matter is that YOU choose not to heed it.

For like Apostle Paul said to those men at the Corinth Church...

1 Cor 14:36
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
KJV

 

[OzSpen]

It makes no sense that God would care one whit about the gonads of His ministers. But logic is never invoked as a basis to deny ordination to women. Rather, the arguments against women serving as clergy are always premised on Scripture and Tradition. The appeal to Scripture is primarily centered on Paul’s letters, especially 1 Cor. 14:34-35:

“the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.”

For several reasons, I’m not buying it. I think it far more logical to conclude that this comment is a culturally sensitive anachronism and not a timeless directive.

I Cor 11:5 states, "But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved" (NIV).

How is it possible for a woman to be totally silent in the church and yet women can prophesy?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I see you haven’t read your Bible lately…

Women prayed and prophesied according to 1 Cor. 11:5.

I have read lots of my Bible lately. We have further confirmation of the "everyone" ministry in 1 Cor 14:26, "What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.

Oz

 

[Michiah-Imla]

What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word

“and sisters” is not part of the scripture.

Here’s that verse from a better translation:

“How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.” (1 Corinthians 14:26-27)

The ESV corrupted Bible leaves out “man” in the next verse:

“If any man speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.” (1 Corinthians 14:27)

And you should know better! Paul already taught this:

“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.” (1 Corinthians 14:34)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

1 Cor 14:36
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

This is a rebuke to those who would pervert his teaching on women keeping silent in the churches by claiming an exclusive revelation from the word of God came to him only.

 

[OzSpen]

“and sisters” is not part of the scripture.

M-I,

You don't seem to understand the difference between a literal translation (ESV) and dynamic equivalence (meaning-for-meaning as in NIV).

Here’s that verse from a better translation:

“How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.” (1 Corinthians 14:26-27)

The ESV corrupted Bible leaves out “man” in the next verse:

“If any man speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.” (1 Corinthians 14:27)

And you should know better! Paul already taught this:

“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.” (1 Corinthians 14:34)

M-I,

You state, "“and sisters” is not part of the scripture." That is a false statement as you are not understanding the meaning of adelphoi (nominative plural). It can mean 'brothers' if only male persons are the context but 'brothers and sisters' if that is the meaning in context. We know brothers and sisters is the meaning because the context in 1 Cor 14:26 is 'every one of you.' It does not mean all of you, with the exception of females.

You have too many errors in NT Greek grammar here for me to take the time to correct them. 1 Cor 14:26-27 (THGNT), '26 Τί οὖν ἐστιν, ἀδελφοί; ὅταν συνέρχησθε, ἕκαστος ψαλμὸν ἔχει, διδαχὴν ἔχει, ἀποκάλυψιν ἔχει, γλῶσσαν ἔχει, ἑρμηνίαν ἔχει· πάντα πρὸς οἰκοδομὴν γεινέσθω. 27 εἴτε γλώσσῃ τίς λαλεῖ, κατὰ δύο ἢ τὸ πλεῖστον τρεῖς καὶ ἀνὰ μέρος· καὶ εἷς διερμηνευέτω.'

You state, "The ESV corrupted Bible leaves out “man” in the next verse: “If any man speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.” (1 Corinthians 14:27) You don't understand the Greek translation of τίς (any person/man). "Man" is a perfectly legitimate translation, but as a dynamic equivalence translation we could use person instead of man as the context refers to men and women.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.” (1 Corinthians 14:34. Please tell me how a woman can "keep silence" and yet engage in the gift of prophecy (1 Cor 11:5).

Oz

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Please tell me how a woman can "keep silence" and yet engage in the gift of prophecy (1 Cor 11:5).

1 Corinthians 11:5 is not addressing conduct INSIDE a church.

Once she enters the church she must be silent.

Because:

“These things write I unto thee… that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” (1 Timothy 3:14-15)

Among the “things” Paul wrote is this sledgehammering torch against the rebels:

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak.” (1 Corinthians 14:34)

“Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?” (Jeremiah 23:29)

 

[robert derrick]

Only a man can be a priest!
Cos only a man can be a father!

Is this anti-woman?

only a woman can be a mother!

is this anti-men? No

it is what it is!

Only a man can sow the good seed of the gospel of salvation and only a priest can offer the holy propitiatory sacrifice of Christ!

So just what have you been sowing all this time? Corn on the cobb?

Are you finally acknowledging all this Mary stuff doesn't have anything to do with the good seed of salvation?

Only a man can be a priest!
Cos only a man can be a father!

Is this anti-woman?

only a woman can be a mother!

is this anti-men? No

it is what it is!

Only a man can sow the good seed of the gospel of salvation and only a priest can offer the holy propitiatory sacrifice of Christ!

Now this is rich. Worshippers of the Sacred-Wombed ever-Virgin Mary condemns her for sowing that Magnificat seed!!!

Oh man, that is priceless.

And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

"Elizabeth, thou art beside thyself; much pregnancy doth make thee mad!"

How do we know an ideologue reciting learned ideology? When what they say makes any normal person wonder if they actually think about it first.

What do that call them? the catechisms of the faith? Or is that catacombs? My ancient Roman History isn't what it used to be.

 

[robert derrick]

Have no issues with women not being pastors. You don't have to be in a pulpit to be a force for the Kingdom. Women have been important in ministry from Christianity's beginning.

Present company included.

 

[robert derrick]

This nonsense about women being "saved in childbeaing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety" stumbles twice. First, it suggests that infertile women are disadvantaged when it comes to salvation. Second, it suggests that men who "continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety" are disadvantaged compared to mothers when it comes to salvation. Neither proposition makes any sense.

The non sequitur that because Adam predated Eve, women must have been intended by God to be subordinate to men, or because Eve was deceived and Adam was not, men are somehow better suited to a relative position of authority, makes even less sense.

Paul dropped the ball here.

Don't go overboard. Drop kicking false doctrine is one thing, but claiming Paul drops the ball is another.

After all, if you're going to accuse Paul, then you have to include Jesus who gave the Scripture to Him personally, and kept it as Scripture for us to read and obey today. Or do you see places where other prophets and apostles dropped the ball?

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

And so Peter left the ball rolling on the ground, when he had this chance to correct Paul. Instead he confirms all his epistles to be written Scripture by wisdom of God.

There is a teaching about speaking and prophesying, using both men and women as examples, both in that day and today.

 

[robert derrick]

1 Corinthians 11:5 is not addressing conduct INSIDE a church.

What is INSIDE a church? The house of God and the church of the living God? Pillars of truth? Pews of holiness?

Are you really one of those that thinks the church is a building made with hands? Is that the only time you are ever in an assembly of the saints, or gathered two or three together in His name?

Women can speak and prophecy outside the building but not within? Are you therefore promoting curbside women ministries?

Where in Scripture do you read that women may only prophesy outside? Or only in their own homes? What about when all assembling was house to house?

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Did they only hear the voices of men speaking and praising God? Did Anna get barred outside the door, before she could speak of Jesus and His redemption?

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth, howbeit that women shall not do so in the churches.

1 Corinthians 11:5 is not addressing conduct INSIDE a church.

Once she enters the church she must be silent.

Since you've taken the bait, stand forth like a real man and answer the questions demanded of you:

Hand signals only? No 'God Bless you'?

I'll bet you like shooshing women, especially little girls. Do you practice your silencing glare at home in the mirror?

So, little boys can speak up anytime they want in church, but not little girls? Or is it just a rule for women?

"Enjoy talking in church while you can little Suzy, because once you're of age, no more speaking out loud in church." "Yes Mommy. Praise the Lord everybody!!!" "Good girl Suzy. Get it all out while you can."

What about man-idiots that don't know how to stop talking, when something important is being said elsewhere? What about in the hallways, or are they sacroscantified too?

A woman can certainly shoosh any idiot disrupting the service, since shooshing is not speaking. Slapping too. Man-Slapping good, Woman-Speaking bad.

“Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?” (Jeremiah 23:29)

Oh yeah, I truly would love seeing you try that fiery indignation on my rebel Syrian wife.

Oh yeah.

"Hey baby. See that guy over there? He says it's a shame for you too speak in this building. He says all women ought to just shut up as soon as they walk through those doors." "Really?" "Yeah, really." "Alright, let's go have a talk with him." "After you, my dear."

How many think I am joking with this last part?

 

[robert derrick]

According to the correct interpretation of "ministry of the body of Christ", a "woman", can not be the "husband of one wife".

Now, in today's world, that is Gay obsessed, and perversion infected, (worldwide) except in perhaps a few Middle Eastern Countries, China, and Russia, ... the "new Normal" is to be taught that a woman marrying a woman, is husband and wife.
God does not agree, and neither should you.

So, if we read....that a Bishop......(Paul Teaching) has to be the "Husband of one Wife"......then we understand he is not talking about only being married once...
He's talking about "the husband of one wife".... (MARRIED).. are the only who are eligible to be a PASTOR of a Church.

So, what does that eliminate from being the PASTOR of a Church.
It eliminates everything that is not a "husband of one wife".
That means....women and men who are not MARRIED.

But hold on....dont start climbing the walls yet....
See, other that that..... (Pastor), a woman can perform in any other ministry position.
Missionary
Teacher
Evangelist
Deacon
Minister of Music.

ALL OF IT, .. but she can't be a PASTOR, unless she is the "husband of one wife", and that, is not possible.

Good point. I agree.

Usurping authority over is an unlawful theft of authority over another. It is not simply having authority, or speaking with authority.

God is saying that women ought not to be telling men what to do, or trying to tell men how to be men.

I've walked out of two services while a woman was ministering:

One woman started trying to tell 'us men' how to be men in times of crises, how to behave like Christian men during times when we are fearful. First off, I'm not fearful. Second off, I'm not going to listen to some woman tell me how to behave like a man. Are you kidding me?? (Even my wife doesn't try that one on me. And she's tried plenty of things on me.)

Another time was when some woman was ministering and started an altar 'just for the men', and she was going to pray over them. Right. What surprised me was the idiots that actually went down there on their knees while she prayed over them for God to help them as Christian men. That's when I left and never came back.

The point here is that Christian women are not to be as the priestesses of pagan temples, where they had authority over any person entering into the temple, including men. Kings would bow down to the priestess of Delphi.

I'm not going to attend nor minister in any church, where a woman has authority to tell me what to do, even if she says 'please'. After all, I wouldn't even let men do that.

Whoever said the ministry of Christ is having personal authority over one another? God doesn't call preachers into His ministry to set up some business and start telling the underlings what to do. Ministry is not a career.

Yeah, I know. Where have I been all my Christian life, right?

 

[RedFan]

"After all, if you're going to accuse Paul, then you have to include Jesus who gave the Scripture to Him personally, and kept it as Scripture for us to read and obey today. Or do you see places where other prophets and apostles dropped the ball?"

Hold on, my friend. What basis do you have to assume that Jesus put these words about "saved by childbearing" in Paul's pen? Surely you cannot defend the logic of this bizzarre path to salvation for fertile women. Doesn't that lack of logic give you pause?

And yes, I do think there are other instances of apostles dropping the ball.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@robert derrick

For all the hot air in your post the bottom line is this!

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak” (1 Corinthians 14:34)

It’s a commandment from the Lord:

“…the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37)

So you @robert derrick:

“…Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” (Mark 7:9)

No be gone! Why don’t you man up and control your women instead of berating a man of God!

“Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.” (James 3:9)

This world is full of cowardly “men” who let the women walk all over them but somehow become tough against his fellow man!

 

[RedFan]

To conclude that Paul's directive for women to shut up in church is "a commandment from the Lord" simply because of Paul's own ipse dixit in v. 14:37 is circular reasoning. Either that directive about women is a commandment from the Lord or it isn't, but either way, Paul saying it is adds nothing to the conclusion one way or another. If Paul's letters are all inspired, inerrant words of God, we must distill that conclusion from something other than Paul's declaration that they are.

In any book, of the Bible or otherwise, what is written is either true or false. And the author adding "What I say is true" doesn't help us reach that conclusion.

 

[Davy]

This is a rebuke to those who would pervert his teaching on women keeping silent in the churches by claiming an exclusive revelation from the word of God came to him only.

That interpretation is laughable! I'm enjoying the show, by the way! Got my popcorn. And that's all you are doing, is just putting on a show with trying... to support your 'own' personal views instead of staying with the written Scripture.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

'own' personal views instead of staying with the written Scripture.

Do you live in upside down world?

I have done precisely the opposite of what you accuse me of.

The falling away is in full fulfillment before our eyes!

 

[Davy]

Do you live in upside down world?

I have done precisely the opposite of what you accuse me of.

The falling away is in full fulfillment before our eyes!

That's even funnier, associating the 'falling away' idea of 2 Thessalonians 2 with preventing women from teaching and proclaiming The Gospel.

The falling way idea Apostle Paul taught in 2 Thessalonians 2 is about falling away to bow to the coming "man of sin" that is to sit in a rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem for the end, worshiping him in place of Jesus Christ. That is why Apostle Paul attached that false one proclaiming himself as God WITH... that falling away warning. Paul even pointed to it as the "strong delusion".

So what other... Bible Scriptures have you shown that you do not properly understand?