Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Taken]

If I cannot stop myself from sinning as Lifelong sinner proclaims.
Then I am not accountable for my actions.

Yes you are accountable for your actions.
If you reject God, you sin against God, your standing IS Against God.
If you heartfully believe in God, Confess your belief, He will forgive you, once, convert you once, and forever He will keep you with Him...
By His Power IN you, you can never AGAIN, stand, (sin) Against God.
That is a ONE TIME assured forever relationship between YOU and God.

Will you have assured honky dory relationships between YOU and OTHER Persons? Maybe, maybe not. Most likely Probably not.
The world IS FULL, of evil (powerful) spirits, of wicked (power sitting) men...that will reject you, threaten you, oppress you....IF YOU do not YEILD to their wants, suggestions, demands.....
What cha gunna do, when something stronger, or higher authority, is demanding you DO, what God says to not do?
....And remember, those with God ARE few “IN” this world compared to the presence of evil spirits and wicked men “OF” this world.

Choice is yours, to assuredly Stand with God, once and forever.
...full well knowing, you will likely be a target of evil / wickedness.
Choice is yours, to Believe, but make no commitment and HOPE you are ...not hookwinked and fall for evil / wicked scams.
Choice is yours, to not believe, and go along with whatever governing ...authorities dictate at any given moment.

But however YOU treat other people, employers, spouses, family, neighbors....YOU bear the consequences, good or bad (burden) of how they react to YOU.

Gal 6:
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.

 

[Gregory]

yes, you have NO say in your salvation.

Are you a Calvinist?

 

[ScottA]

Furthermore,
I do not need the Greek to define the meaning of nature used in Ephesians 2:3.
I have already taught you the context proves it is speaking of developing a sinful lifestyle out of habit.
Not by being born sinful or innately sinful.

As Romans 2:14 proves those gentiles did not have an innate nature to be utterly wicked without ability to live godly lives.

Compare the two verses and we can see there is no evidence for the calvinist doctrine of a innate nature of sin that we are supposedly born with,

Ephesians 2:3,
-among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature(long habit) the children of wrath, even as others.

Now listen to these gentiles nature being godly upright law keeping folks.

Romans 2:14,
-For when the gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature(chose to be upright)) the things contained in the law, these having not the law, are a law unto themselves.

Even without the law by their nature they obey the law of God.
No way we have a depraved innate sinful wicked reprobated, inherited sin nature.

Those who are wicked by nature do so as by the definition of this Greek word, by habit.

All mankind are created upright.
Not depraved wicked sinners.

If sin nature is true. Babies are going to hell.
It cannot be as gentiles nature in Romans were a godly nature that obeyed God.

Thanks be to God babies are born without sin... have never been separated from God,
Therefore they all die in the Lord.

This is certainly an interesting point and worthy of study and debate, however I would suggest that it does not offer the proof one would think.

But rather, if one goes back to the beginning for understanding, the evidence that is discovered, is that having a choice to go against God's commandments, Adam and Eve were not actually the parents of a sin nature, but were actually created with a sin nature--a nature they had even before the fall. Which by no means goes against the idea that God would never have created sin, but rather that God allowed them (and us) the choice from the beginning.

Thus Noah was by nature able to do evil as well, but chose to do righteously, as did Christ who was also tempted but did not sin.

All of which make the idea of being born with a sin nature or not...a moot point.

More importantly, such a realization does however, raise other questions.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

newsflash!!!! You sin. Every. Single. Day.

Close , but no cigar......it’s EVERY HOUR! How deceived can a person get ? Even if he “was” correct ( and he is NOT, and only a blind man would agree with him! )they have really only scratched the surface ... If Anybody could keep the Law they would “still” have to deal with those never- mentioned “ Sins of Omission” .....How many poor strangers have you invited into your home to feed and clothe.....as you sit around the table and stuff yourself and then go spend a few hours watching television, don’t you think that if you were a “ good, moral” man you would be spending that time working on food lines or comforting those people in hospitals......

Some will just never “ get it”......Going out the Gate,
God has the deck stacked against us...Do you Think that you are Hot Stuff because you never committed Adultery? Jesus let’s us know that if you merely have a lustful thought, you are no better than an Adulterer......Are you proud that you “ keep the Law” and have risen above Sin somehow? That alone will not suffice— if there is something out that needs to be done and you know it and you don’t do it .....you are guilty of a Sin Of Omission.....

Do you see what might just be a pattern here?God is doing His very Utmost to Show us all that we are Sinners and can’t escape that fact as long as were are humans in bodies of flesh....You MUST accept His Grace ....You MUST turn to the Gospel and Believe it and Rest in it to obtain that Grace... God said that is by GRACE that one is Saved.....He could have chosen ANY Word.....He Chose the Word “ Grace” .....a wise man would shut- up , ADMIT that he is a Sinner and grab hold of that Grace as if it were the difference between Heaven and Hell —— turns out That it *IS* .....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

thats not how this works, you heretic.

all you need to know is what john said;
“1 john 1:8: If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.“

the keyword here is “have”. Its not had, but have. You sin every single day, we all do. If you deny that, that makes you a heretic.

I think it merely makes him a “ Nut”....

 

[ChristisGod]

Are you a Calvinist?

Calvinism 101 lol

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I have never held a 'lucky repentance' stance in my life. I've always understood that the believing person's sin is instantly forgiven by the blood of Christ the moment they commit it (except for the sin of unbelief, of course). And besides, I'm well aware of the scripture that says a man can not get saved again. That alone rules out any possibility that the 'lucky repentance' doctrine is true. It was that poor fellow with the self admitted emotional disability that you mercilessly bludgeoned to death that pushed that doctrine. I resisted it then, and I resist it now.

“Mercilessly Bludgeoned to Death” ......my, my—— Exaggerate Much ? His “ False , Perverted ” Gospel” That he pushed made him “ Accursed”.... his “ emotional disability” ( that I don't really Remember Being aware of ) just might have contributed to his condition...
I guess the Spreaders of Leaven that destroy lives and churches ( including Paul's ) should be Given a “ pass” if they have some type of emotional problem....Paul also had a “ merciless” remedy for Legalists.....He threw them out of the Churches—- He advised from the story of Hagar and Ishmael — “ CAST OUT the Bond - Woman and her son” ...... turns out that he Cast “ himself” out....it was a blessing for everybody , unless you are a fellow “ Gospel Perverter”....
Reminds me of the saying about “ birds of a feather”.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

If not saved in the end, then never saved, because the work of Christ at the Cross for sinners is perfect: "It is finished" (John 19.30).

Plus,God has promised to “ Finish the Good Work that He started “

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Interesting verbiage. I like this saying. The problem is OSAS is trying so hard to leave it all up to Jesus to get us over the finish line, they are willing to even give up baptism (because it is possibly something to boast about), even though Jesus and the apostles tell us to be baptized. Not sure how they reconcile the NT.

Too many people read Acts 2:8 and stop there.....Acts is a Transitional Book...one must read the entire Book....What was proper Doctrine under Peter at the beginning of the Book got changed from Repentance, Baptism and WHO JESUS WAS to WHAT JESUS * DID* .....Peter and Paul debated the issue....by the end of Acts they were in agreement....one did NOT have to be Baptized in water to receive the Holy Spirit —- as Paul Taught, one could get the Spirit by Now simply Believing in His Gospel—- Given to Him by Jesus....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The question is, do you live in it in unbelief everyday? That is the sin that will condemn you on the day Jesus returns.

Any man that consistently rejects the Gospel his ENTIRE Life and NEVER gets “ Born Again?” Yep—- He is condemned as an Unbeliever .....A man that Believed the Gospel and the ONLY REASON that he Believed it was because God “ opened his heart “ to it? He is Saved.....He has the Holy Spirit in Him now and thus qualifies for all the good Promises given to him by God for ALL of those that Believe ....here is one—- “ NOTHING” can remove you from my grasp ( “ Nothing” includes YOU trying to remove yourself) .....here’s another one— “ I will FINISH the good work that I started”.....
Any Believer can fall into Error......God will bring him back....if he doesn’t , the Amazing Grace of God has it covered....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So, no danger of the righteous boasting about their righteous works. The danger is in us not having any righteous works for the Lord to boast about.



Boast until you can’t boast any more! Nobody cares.....just don’t claim that whatever you are “ boasting” about ( in this case it is your “ righteous Works” that God sees as Dung, btw) GOT you Saved or KEEPS you Saved....

The only things worth boasting about to me ( your boasting stems from an inward pride showing itself on the outside) are the Shed Blood Of Jesus and the Grace Of God...the two things that have Saved and continue to Save every Lost man that made it to Heaven ...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You must repent of sins to be saved



That phrase will never be found in the KJV....$1000 will go to you if you prove me wrong....good luck...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Newsflash...No I do not.
Newsflash...You are qualified to speak for yourself.
Newsflash...You are not qualified to speak for All others one on one relationship with the Lord God.

Newsflash......you ever have an unclean thought ? I suspect that you have “ secret thoughts that would shame Hell itself” —- just like the rest of us....you need Grace just as much as anybody else.....perhaps “ more” for denying an obvious Truth...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Theres NO way most of you go to church

“ Going to Church” is unfortunately the problem in most cases.....Bad Teaching From “ Self -Called” Preachers—— NOT “ GOD” called Preachers...therein lies the problem...

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Close , but no cigar......it’s EVERY HOUR! How deceived can a person get ? Even if he “was” correct ( and he is NOT, and only a blind man would agree with him! )they have really only scratched the surface ... If Anybody could keep the Law they would “still” have to deal with those never- mentioned “ Sins of Omission” .....How many poor strangers have you invited into your home to feed and clothe.....as you sit around the table and stuff yourself and then go spend a few hours watching television, don’t you think that if you were a “ good, moral” man you would be spending that time working on food lines or comforting those people in hospitals......

Some will just never “ get it”......Going out the Gate,
God has the deck stacked against us...Do you Think that you are Hot Stuff because you never committed Adultery? Jesus let’s us know that if you merely have a lustful thought, you are no better than an Adulterer......Are you proud that you “ keep the Law” and have risen above Sin somehow? That alone will not suffice— if there is something out that needs to be done and you know it and you don’t do it .....you are guilty of a Sin Of Omission.....

Do you see what might just be a pattern here?God is doing His very Utmost to Show us all that we are Sinners and can’t escape that fact as long as were are humans in bodies of flesh....You MUST accept His Grace ....You MUST turn to the Gospel and Believe it and Rest in it to obtain that Grace... God said that is by GRACE that one is Saved.....He could have chosen ANY Word.....He Chose the Word “ Grace” .....a wise man would shut- up , ADMIT that he is a Sinner and grab hold of that Grace as if it were the difference between Heaven and Hell —— turns out That it *IS* .....

i agree that its every hour, but on this forum you got many a perfect persons saying they no longer sin. At all. Which is crazy to me. I feel like by time i even get out of bed in the morning, i’ve committed at least 3 sins to start the day.

if you can even get people on here to admit to being sinners i’d feel like you accomplished something.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

If I cannot stop myself from sinning as Lifelong sinner proclaims.
Then I am not accountable for my actions.

“The Spirit is willing, But the flesh is weak”... read about Paul’s struggles with sin in Rom 7

 

[BloodBought 1953]

i agree that its every hour, but on this forum you got many a perfect persons saying they no longer sin. At all. Which is crazy to me. I feel like by time i even get out of bed in the morning, i’ve committed at least 3 sins to start the day.

if you can even get people on here to admit to being sinners i’d feel like you accomplished something.

If you Reject the Grace of God , one is forced to live in the “ Fools Paradise” Of trying to keep up a Performance that God will deem as “ good enough” .....If you believe that your “ performance” must be perfect And “ above sin” to avoid going to Hell, how else can you sleep at night? You have to know in your heart - Of - Hearts that you aren’t Perfect.....But if you think that is the only way to get to Heaven you must “pretend” and delude yourself so you can find some peace in the Fearful, Graceless World that you created...
In a nutshell , these poor souls have made the error of trying to “ MAKE themselves worthy” of Heaven thereby putting their trust in themselves instead of Jesus to save them....The Saved man lives in peace without having to lie to himself ....Why is That ? I know that because of my Faith in Jesus and HIS performance that I am * MADE WORTHY* by the Blood Of The Lamb......it’s the most important thing to learn in life, perhaps.....it eliminates all Fear and the burden of living a lie....Plus it allows one to sleep like a baby .....

 

[Titus]

“The Spirit is willing, But the flesh is weak”... read about Paul’s struggles with sin in Rom 7

Here is my point,
Christians will fail to live perfectly and commit sin.
Lifelong sinner and I both world agree on this.

Where I am disagreeing with Lifelong sinner is, his belief that you cannot control yourself from committing sin.

This is false. The Bible teaches, You must control the sinful desires of the flesh.
If one does not control the flesh.
One will be lost.
Paul sinned as all sin.
But Paul was a mature christian.
Paul did not sin willfully.
Paul did not have the calvinist belief Lifelong sinner has, that is,
"O, well, I am going to sin, nothing I can do about it, so why try not to sin".

Paul taught he fought every day to resist the temptations of his flesh.
Paul knew if he did not resist the temptation to sin, he would be lost,
1Corinthians 9:27,
-but I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Paul taught if he did not control his flesh, he could be disqualified from winning the race.
Paul is teaching a figurative symbolic "foot race" that represents a Christians lifelong lifestyle of living for God in oder to obtain the crown of life,"prize" Revelation 2:10.

1Corinthians 9:24, 25, 26-27,
--do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize?
-And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things, Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown.
-therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air.
-but I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest when I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.

This not only teaches we must resist to commit sin.
Paul is teaching if we do not, we will not win the "prize" of eternal life.

Paul promises that all can overcome sin,
1Corinthians 10:13,
-no temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

"O, well, I am going to sin, nothing I can do about it, so why try not to sin".

I don’t think this way. I don’t know anybody that does.
How about “ trying not to sin” because I am a New Creation that derives more pleasure from pleasing God than I do displeasing Him...Perhaps since I got my New Heart , maybe the sins that used to give me pleasure now-give me all the pleasure of sticking my hand in a fire.....Perhaps Now That I have become a Child of God , I now know that I will be Chastised for the sins that I commit,,and I have learned the hard way that God does not play around when He sets out to correct you for your own good....
So one decides to “sin up a storm” because it’s pointless to attempt to even TRY to do right? Go ahead, Fool—- see how that flies with God.....enjoy your lengthy stay in “ God’s Woodshed “ ..... God has been dealing with Stupidity for Eons ..... He knows how to stomp it out of a person’s life...He’s not gonna be Mocked

 

[BloodBought 1953]

-but I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

The CONTEXT is “ preaching to others”...... see it? He’s referring to being “ disqualified” as a Teacher Of God’s Word....