One Spirit
- Thread starter Episkopos
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We are not to be filled with wine....but be filled by the Spirit. Wine is not a person...and neither is the Spirit. We are comparing apples with apples here. When a person is filled with the Spirit their consciousness expands into eternal reality. There are spiritual faculties as well as carnal ones. God fills our lamps with the oil of His power. There are MANY such examples to the functioning of the Holy Spirit. Stephen was given the spiritual faculty of seeing as a gift of the Spirit, allowing him to function in that capacity.
God's Spirit enables us by grace to walk the same way Jesus did.
Calling God's Spirit a separate person from Him is innocuous unless one goes deeper into spiritual reality. But it is highly innacurate to attribute a function of God as being separate from Him
Do you believe God's own Spirit is different than the Holy Spirit?
Do you believe the Spirit of Christ is a different person than the Holy Spirit?
God IS Spirit. There is only One Holy Spirit...shared by both Father and Son. :)
There are three individual persons in this depiction. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit which was in Stephen. @Episkopos this would have been a different story if the three were not together in this case. For example: "Stephen looked up and saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God".....but this is not the case so again there are 3 in the Godhead.
God the Father is omni-aware of all things.
"Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father." Matt. 10:29
God's Spirit stretches out so that it can know all things and fill all things. There is no limit with God. He can do all things.
Each part of God is equal and yet individual within the Godhead. They agree because they are in each other just as we are in God through Christ who is in us by the Holy Spirit.
John 16
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
John 17
5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
We are not saved without Jesus and without the Holy Spirit which is our seal of redemption, we cannot have eternal life.
So either they are three individually (at the same time, one) or they are three going down in a line (as one ends another begins.....;)
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Or the Kingdom of Heaven is where the Father and Jesus are. And since the kingdom of heaven is within you, that means the ones who dwell there are within as well.
And if we consider that the Holy Spirit dwelled between the cherubim, he acted as like a gateway to God in the temple. So it is with these temples of the body.
How God is One is really only had to understand if we don't actually spend time listening with our Spiritual ears.
I'll explain it now - but it will really only make sense if a person starts spending a lot of time listening to the Lord.
Jesus explained that He did and said only what the Father told Him.
If that was indeed the case, like Jesus said, then if you seek the Lord's voice you don't ever actually hear any words that are His. Every word He said is the Father's words. And would explain why we read in the Bible that nobody knows the Son except the Father and also why we read that nobody knows the Father except the Son and any whom He shows.
Now most people know something of the story of Cyrano De Bergerac where Christian gets his words from Cyrano to speak to the girl he loves. And the girl falls indeed starts to fall in love with Christian until she finds out who has the words and she falls in love with Cyrano.
So it is the words of God which come from the Father which causes us to fall in love with God. God is love, so His words are of love. It is written the the Father has given the Son "all things" which of course would include the words of God. Jesus Christ then owns the words of God!! It is also written that the Holy Spirit does not speak on His own either, but as the Holy Spirit hears He speaks! So the Holy Spirit is like the air which sound travels through, or perhaps like the phone which brings us the words of God which are given to the Son and are thus owned by Him.
So if you listened to the Holy Spirit you got the Words of God which went through and which belong to the Son (Jesus Christ) - yet they are the words of the Father because that was where the words of God came from.
Now then -= Jesus prayed that we would become one with Him like He is one with the Father - and that would mean we need to start listening to our Lord Jesus Christ whose name is called "The Word of God" because He owns the words of God and then do and say what our Lord tells us. Ok - we are not very good at seeking, listening to, and doing only what we are told, but we can perhaps do things kind of like that and then fullfil the prayer Jesus made to be one with God "like" or kind of like He is one with God.
Yeah - we are never going to be the "Word of God" (that's Jesus) but we can be a bit more obedient. As for me - well - He had bee telling me that He wanted me to come to the forum and post. I have been dragging my feet on this, but I finally got to it. The words above, as far as I know are mine, but they did come from conversations and explanations that I have gotten form Him and they can be checked against your Bible.
It's kind of like the three musketeers - but when they say all for One and One for all - they really mean it. The Son and the Spirit do and say only what comes down from the Father!
I'll explain it now - but it will really only make sense if a person starts spending a lot of time listening to the Lord.
Jesus explained that He did and said only what the Father told Him.
If that was indeed the case, like Jesus said, then if you seek the Lord's voice you don't ever actually hear any words that are His. Every word He said is the Father's words. And would explain why we read in the Bible that nobody knows the Son except the Father and also why we read that nobody knows the Father except the Son and any whom He shows.
Now most people know something of the story of Cyrano De Bergerac where Christian gets his words from Cyrano to speak to the girl he loves. And the girl falls indeed starts to fall in love with Christian until she finds out who has the words and she falls in love with Cyrano.
So it is the words of God which come from the Father which causes us to fall in love with God. God is love, so His words are of love. It is written the the Father has given the Son "all things" which of course would include the words of God. Jesus Christ then owns the words of God!! It is also written that the Holy Spirit does not speak on His own either, but as the Holy Spirit hears He speaks! So the Holy Spirit is like the air which sound travels through, or perhaps like the phone which brings us the words of God which are given to the Son and are thus owned by Him.
So if you listened to the Holy Spirit you got the Words of God which went through and which belong to the Son (Jesus Christ) - yet they are the words of the Father because that was where the words of God came from.
Now then -= Jesus prayed that we would become one with Him like He is one with the Father - and that would mean we need to start listening to our Lord Jesus Christ whose name is called "The Word of God" because He owns the words of God and then do and say what our Lord tells us. Ok - we are not very good at seeking, listening to, and doing only what we are told, but we can perhaps do things kind of like that and then fullfil the prayer Jesus made to be one with God "like" or kind of like He is one with God.
Yeah - we are never going to be the "Word of God" (that's Jesus) but we can be a bit more obedient. As for me - well - He had bee telling me that He wanted me to come to the forum and post. I have been dragging my feet on this, but I finally got to it. The words above, as far as I know are mine, but they did come from conversations and explanations that I have gotten form Him and they can be checked against your Bible.
It's kind of like the three musketeers - but when they say all for One and One for all - they really mean it. The Son and the Spirit do and say only what comes down from the Father!
To deny that Jesus is God is to do Him a disservice. Likewise to deny that the Father's Spirit IS the Holy Spirit is to deny the FAther.
The doctrine of the trinity leaves the Father out of the picture. And yet Jesus came to reconcile us with the Father.
Notice how very little is spoken of the Father in modern churches. We are so pre-occupied with the Holy Spirit (actually the Spirit of God) and the Spirit of the Son...we tend to neglect who the Father is and how close He is to us by His Spirit. Instead, people look to the Holy Spirit as if that was different from the presence of the Father in our midst. It is no wonder then that we don't experience His presence as we should.
If we want the Father in our midst, we should honour Him as He is.
The doctrine of the trinity leaves the Father out of the picture. And yet Jesus came to reconcile us with the Father.
Notice how very little is spoken of the Father in modern churches. We are so pre-occupied with the Holy Spirit (actually the Spirit of God) and the Spirit of the Son...we tend to neglect who the Father is and how close He is to us by His Spirit. Instead, people look to the Holy Spirit as if that was different from the presence of the Father in our midst. It is no wonder then that we don't experience His presence as we should.
If we want the Father in our midst, we should honour Him as He is.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Indeed...this is only a matter of semantics, which at times is even unavoidable...but certainly no reason for division. For instance, here you refer to God's Spirit as "it", but then refer to Him as "He"...which the scriptures do also using one word for both.
In fact, I must say, it is more accurate to say "He" when referring to God's spirit, than it is to say "it"...for "it" is Him in both cases. But have we erred either way? No--because God is One.
The same is true for anyone of us created in God's image, which image takes on different titles, such as son, mother, officer, nurse, etc...all of which may refer to the same person, but in different roles by which they are known. For this reason, I personally consider the Trinity to be the Me, Myself, and I of God. And no problem.
I would suggest that all this does become an issue, and has, when we carrying the identity to include that of different "persons." This idea however is only a human dilemma because of our perspective of different persons not being one person. However, with God our perspective should not be so limited...after all, we have biblical precedence for two becoming one [flesh], even extending to define Christ and the church, even that we become One as they are One. How then is it even wrong to say different persons? Again, I would suggest that it is not wrong as we approach the Oneness and knowledge of Each individually--which individuality is then rather [in us] and not in God. But that it is wrong to some extent to continue in the different "persons" idea (identity) once we come to know them as One...which we have now done with the Father and the Son, both being referred to as God, but also by Title where appropriate.
God is One.
"Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
In fact, I must say, it is more accurate to say "He" when referring to God's spirit, than it is to say "it"...for "it" is Him in both cases. But have we erred either way? No--because God is One.
The same is true for anyone of us created in God's image, which image takes on different titles, such as son, mother, officer, nurse, etc...all of which may refer to the same person, but in different roles by which they are known. For this reason, I personally consider the Trinity to be the Me, Myself, and I of God. And no problem.
I would suggest that all this does become an issue, and has, when we carrying the identity to include that of different "persons." This idea however is only a human dilemma because of our perspective of different persons not being one person. However, with God our perspective should not be so limited...after all, we have biblical precedence for two becoming one [flesh], even extending to define Christ and the church, even that we become One as they are One. How then is it even wrong to say different persons? Again, I would suggest that it is not wrong as we approach the Oneness and knowledge of Each individually--which individuality is then rather [in us] and not in God. But that it is wrong to some extent to continue in the different "persons" idea (identity) once we come to know them as One...which we have now done with the Father and the Son, both being referred to as God, but also by Title where appropriate.
God is One.
"Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
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Thanks Episkopos, for all your continued threads you share and respond to. You give me a lot to think about as I continue to pursue God in all things. As well, thanks to those who share and comment in these threads.
The following are just personal thoughts while reading this specific thread....
Are the words one speaks to another, have its own will? Once spoken, are the words still connected to the one who spoke it? What about the breath that carries those words to the listener? Does the breath act independently, with its own will? Or does it act according to the one who began the action of sending it out from their mouth?
The following are just personal thoughts while reading this specific thread....
Are the words one speaks to another, have its own will? Once spoken, are the words still connected to the one who spoke it? What about the breath that carries those words to the listener? Does the breath act independently, with its own will? Or does it act according to the one who began the action of sending it out from their mouth?
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Not being a smart aleck. Sincerely curious about your opinion.
Do you think we will be allowed into heaven if we have believed upon the wrong god?
If trinity is true, do you believe those who believe in a singular, single person, God will be allowed into heaven?
If God is ONE, do you believe those who believed in the trinity will be allowed into heaven?
It's my understanding that if you believe upon a god that is not the proper God of the Bible, Jesus will tell you that He never knew you, largely because you never really knew Him, and will direct you to His left ... to be with the goats.
What say you?
He who is truly born from above, has(hath) both The Father and The Son, in the form of The Holy Spirit. There are Three(That bares record) and yet They are One. It is not for us to understand this, it is only for us to believe that this is so. And it is so. Be not fooled by vain philosophies.
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in The Name of The Father and of The Son and of The Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo I AM with you always, to the close of the age.
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in The Name of The Father and of The Son and of The Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo I AM with you always, to the close of the age.
@GEN2REV
1. No...if we believe in Jesus as our lord and Savior as per the bible, we do not have the wrong God.
2. Yes...As long as that singular God they believe in is Jesus. Salvation is based on our belief in Christ's death for the forgiveness of sin, his resurrection and his position at the righthand of God. If you only believe in God the Father, the bible tells us John 14:6 that no-ne comes to the Father except through me. (Jesus)
3. Yes because salvation is based on the work of the cross through Jesus Christ, then Jesus entering heaven and sending us the helper. The Holy Spirit. The guarantee of our inheritance - 2Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5, Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30
4. The verse you are referring to is about those who profess to be followers of God, but they do not obey his will, rather they go off and do their own thing. Lawlessness is disobedince. Matthew 7:22-23. Matthew 25:33 The sheep and the goats are separated in this parable due to the goats for example: proffessing to be a certain way but not actually living it. Basically, they are not bearing any fruit.
I think I have said this somewhere before- at the end of the day, it does not matter about my thoughts on this subject The most important thing is our personal relationship with Jesus Christ our Lord and savior.
Hey brother!
The words we speak attest to the part of us they are coming from. Our will is part of the inner man. Our will is usually filtered through the sin nature present in the outer man....that is...unless we are broken at the cross...or at least weaned from the outer man. We are to have no confidence in the flesh...but rather rely on grace in the inner man.
A spirit (breath) can influence us if we have not determined to obey the Lord at all cost. The faithful one must be courageous in his faith. Declaring the Lord's victory sets our determination in line with eternal reality. We are responsible for everything we say and do, even if that control is beyond us, due to the power of the flesh. We are to remain humble....and sometimes our sins are needed to wake us up to our true state. The power of the cross eliminates anything that stands in the way of victory in Christ. We need to first count the cost and then fully surrender to God.
May the Lord bless you in revealing His ways to you . :)
Taken
Well-Known Member
The Lord God Almighty, IS the Heavenly ONE creator and maker...
With many names, titles, descriptions...(not unlike the same that applies to “A man”, with many names, titles, descriptors, but yet still one man).
Disagree...with you.
Lord - Son
God - Father
Almighty - Holy Spirit
Matt 28:19 notifies us, GOD’S Baptism IS a Spiritual Baptism, performed by the WHOLE of God....
His Word (Son), His Authority (Father), His Almighty Power. (Holy Ghost
In short...the TRINITY means...
TRI - prefix 3
UNITY - UNITED
Those THREE, Father, Son, Holy Ghost....ie Lord God Almighty...
ARE ONE God.
Matt 28:
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
You can observe the same THREE acting in unison, in Creation...
Gen 1:
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
[6] And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
We can understand....
What was Gods IDEA, THOUGHT, by what HE does.
Gods WORD, by what HE SAID
Gods POWER, by His IDEA, SAYING, becoming manifested, ie brought into existence.
We further know, we are going to LEARN about what each thing OF God DOES, when, why.
Gen 1:
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of ....
ManKIND, having an IMAGE and LIKENESS...”AS” God reveals...
Man has ideas, thoughts,
Man has word, voice, can say,
Man has power, to cause his thoughts, voice to become Effected, manifested.
And deeper...God IS Good and created and made mankind Very Good....bummer, mankind became NOT Good....yippie....God gives mankind a way to become, forgiven, good, and his spirit for every quickened alive forever.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit are deeply present in Scripture; end of Matthew 28; John chapter 1; Romans 8; John's First Epistle, etc.
As to Elohim being twofold, the ancient rabbinical rabbis also believed in two powers, actually, more than two powers as you listen to this clip..
On this thread I read ' it appears the Ruach HaKodesh is BOTH the Father and the Son..however, is the Holy Spirit a person?
Another Comforter (allon paraklēton). Another of like kind (allon, not heteron), besides Jesus who becomes our Paraclete, Helper, Advocate, with the Father (1Jn_2:1, Cf. Rom_8:26.).
Act 13:2 They were ministering to Adonoi and under a tzom when the Ruach Hakodesh said to them, “Set apart for Me Bar-Nabba and Sha’ul for the avodas kodesh ministry to which I have called them.” [DIVREY HAYAMIM BAIS 13:10; 35:3; YECHEZKEL 40:46; 44:16; 45:4]
OJB
Here we see clearly the distinction (allon) Spirit and the Father and the Son and the Spirit speaking..as to another question, blood and flesh cannot be in heaven? My question is, how is Christ Jesus appearing in heaven now?
In a bodily form?
Another thing to ponder about, Elohim is Pneuma but is it possible that the Memra always existed in bodily form pros the Father?
I am fully aware we cannot exegete the Theiotes/theotes since we are finite and it is a matter of believing/entrusting into Christ and living a life fully yielded, our will swallowed up in His sweet will.
So, can we use the anthropomorphic term for 'beings' or 'persons/person?' in the Godhead?
Shalom
J.
So the Logos/Memra/Christ Jesus was just a 'thought' in the nous of YHVH?
If I am correct, you are on dangerous ground.
J.
