One Spirit

[Angelina]

Romans 14:1 NKJV: Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.

Our brother @Episkopos is certainly not weak in faith and I do not think anyone on this thread is weak in faith. I also do not think that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are doubtful things as they are found all over the bible....sorry bro, don't know how your spoiler fits into this thread...:)

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos said -

Then Mark 12:35-36 would not make any sense. In verse 35 Jesus says - “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the Son of David? 36 For David himself said by the Holy Spirit:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

So here we have David, inspired by the Holy Spirit, saying:
"the Lord [Father] said to my Lord [Son] "
“Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

The Spirit speaking is God speaking to us. Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Jesus. They are One Spirit. We are invited into the fellowship of the Spirit. Jesus says...My Father and I will come live in him..

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” John 14:23


Now...does the Father and Son actually, bodily come and live inside us? Or is it by His Spirit? The Spirit of God is shared by both Father and Son. The Lord is One...

Who is the "we" that comes to live in us? Is it the Spirit or the Father and Son? It is the Father and the Son BY the Spirit.

We are to worship God IN the Spirit and truth. We do not worship the Spirit and truth.

 

[Episkopos]

1 Corinthians 12:4

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

Yes. God works by His Spirit. God is Spirit. Jesus also is referred to as a Spirit...a life giving Spirit. Whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ is not His. So how many spirits does that make?

Answer: One. :)

 

[Episkopos]

Yes. God works by His Spirit. God is Spirit. Jesus also is referred to as a Spirit...a life giving Spirit. Whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ is not His. So how many spirits does that make?

Answer: One. :)

There is One Spirit, one baptism...etc...

God is One. (Father and Son) (it even rhymes) :)

 

[Angelina]

@Episkopos says -

Who is the "we" that comes to live in us? Is it the Spirit or the Father and Son? It is the Father and the Son BY the Spirit.

but the Father is Spirit before post cross and so was the Son. The son came from heaven. Those who live in heaven are not flesh and blood...:

 

[Episkopos]

Why then does Jesus refer to Him as "Him" and "He" and as having His own title: "Comforter", "Helper", saying "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you?"

This is about language. Most languages use masculine and feminine determinates in their nouns. For instance in Hebrew...wisdom is a "she". In French a house and a table are feminine. As in..the house SHE is very pretty. Or...the table SHE is empty.

A good translation eliminates the gender in translating into English because for us masculine and feminine are exclusively used for people not things.

In Proverbs it says wisdom SHE cries out in the streets. Is that because wisdom is a woman? No, it is because the language uses gender in their nouns. The translation should avoid this and just day...Wisdom cries out in the street.

The same goes for Greek. The Greek "autos" means either he or it. They are interchangeable. The same goes for French. In French IL FAIT CHAUD......literally means "he makes hot." But a proper translation makes it....IT is hot (outside).

The Comforter is not a person per se. If someone wants to think it is...then fine. The Comforter is an open door from heaven to be influenced by God's Spirit. If someone wants to think the same person is in every person....well, that's how the Spirit of God works! :)

 

[Angelina]

Yes. God works by His Spirit. God is Spirit. Jesus also is referred to as a Spirit...a life giving Spirit. Whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ is not His. So how many spirits does that make?

Answer: One. :)

They are distinctively different and separate from each other. I believe in the Godhead brother @Episkopos but I do not believe that there are 2. I believe that there are 3....

 

[Philip James]

a Trinity is Roman Catholic teaching that was invented to control people.

Horsefeathers, Alexandria and Constantinople teach the same.. Where is the apostolic community that teaches otherwise?

. No need for an ecclesiastical hierarchy that pretends to represent God WITHOUT God's presence.

Who might you be referring to? Are you the judge of where God's presence is?

No need for an outward dogmatic religion that avoids God's presence and power.

Hmmm.. You mean like those protestant sects who have gone so far as to claim Jesus' ordinance of baptism accomplishes nothing?

as they make a pretense of religion but deny its power. Reject them.

It's time to abandon catholic Sunday school dogmas that take the life and power away from the Church.

What say you?

I say youre completely out to lunch. So much of what you write is orthodox in its way, but then you go out of your way to judge those from whom you have received these things..
Stick to working towards walking a holy life and stop standing as the accusor of your brethren.

If we are not willing to serve the least of our brothers, are we worthy of our calling?

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos says - but the Father is Spirit before post cross and so was the Son. The son came from heaven. Those who live in heaven are not flesh and blood...:

In Genesis it says..the Spirit of God hovered over the waters. The New Testament tells us that the Son created with the Father. The Elohim in Hebrew is a duality...not a trinity.

The "im" always makes two. If there are more than two then the number is given.

Other examples of two in the plural "im" include "machanayim" the two camps of Jacob. Water is "mayim" both fresh water and saltwater. Life is Chayim...both temporal and eternal life. Ephraim mean DOUBLE fruit. etc...

 

[Episkopos]

They are distinctively different and separate from each other. I believe in the Godhead brother @Episkopos but I do not believe that there are 2. I believe that there are 3....

That's fine. As long as you don't worship a spirit other than the One that is the Father's in Jesus name...it's fine. It's when people call on the spirit and try to control it that there is danger. We can't separate God's Spirit from God and try speaking to it as a separate person. That's when counterfeit spirits come in and cause problems.

Most people are safe with a Trinity doctrine. But the deeper you go into spiritual things the more humble and careful you have to be.

Whoever can hear of the Godhead being twofold...let them hear. :)

 

[BarneyFife]

Our brother @Episkopos is certainly not weak in faith and I do not think anyone on this thread is weak in faith. I also do not think that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are doubtful things as they are found all over the bible....sorry bro, don't know how your spoiler fits into this thread...:)

The spoiler is part of my signature.
Indeed, it has nothing to do with the thread. :)

These debates over the nature of God, in my short experience here, rarely seem to amount to anything but contention.

And many of those who contend (on both sides of the argument) exhibit that those who do not agree are weak in the faith.

It may not be apparent yet, but unless this thread proves to be different than others, it should be apparent soon enough.

It's just my opinion, but I think it is absurd for man to think he understands the nature of the Godhead by what little evidence we have in the Bible.

There was a group of Christians in the 1800s called The Christian Connection. They were essentially anti-creedalist. One of the doctrines they mildly rejected was the Trinity. Their position was basically that, while the Bible surely ascribes full diety to Father, Son, and Spirit (which I believe, as well), it is unwise to package those facts into what so often becomes a test of fellowship. They felt that to say three persons were one was just disjointed, theological nonsense. And to say they believed in a term they could neither understand nor describe logically, they felt, was dishonest. I can't say that their reasoning was without merit (again, just my opinion).

My own denomination lists the Trinity as one of their fundamental beliefs, but it was not always so. And I wouldn't mind if they softened their statement of it just a little.

The strongest evidence for the Trinity doctrine is 1 John 5:7-8, which is not without controversy:

What is the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7-8)? | GotQuestions.org

In fact, the Bible version used right here on CB (ASV) does not utilize the Comma Johanneum.

All I did was quote Scripture—careful not to address anyone.

Sorry if I offended anyone. :)

 

[Angelina]

In Genesis it says..the Spirit of God hovered over the waters. The New Testament tells us that the Son created with the Father. The Elohim in Hebrew is a duality...not a trinity.

The "im" always makes two. If there are more than two then the number is given.

Other examples of two in the plural "im" include "machanayim" the two camps of Jacob. Water is "mayim" both fresh water and saltwater. Life is Chayim...both temporal and eternal life. Ephraim mean DOUBLE fruit. etc...

but @Episkopos. : The Hebrew nation does not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, the anointed one and God's only begotten Son? So why would I believe that their dual God? They believe in the Holy Spirit and they believe in Almighty God but not in Jesus...

 

[Episkopos]

Horsefeathers, Alexandria and Constantinople teach the same.. Where is the apostolic community that teaches otherwise?



Who might you be referring to? Are you the judge of where God's presence is?



Hmmm.. You mean like those protestant sects who have gone so far as to claim Jesus' ordinance of baptism accomplishes nothing?

as they make a pretense of religion but deny its power. Reject them.





I say youre completely out to lunch. So much of what you write is orthodox in its way, but then you go out of your way to judge those from whom you have received these things..
Stick to working towards walking a holy life and stop standing as the accusor of your brethren.

If we are not willing to serve the least of our brothers, are we worthy of our calling?

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Amen. Do you know what is meant by the filioque". The Trinity doctrine does not bring unity but rather division.

So which "apostolic" tradition (of men) is right? Is the Spirit sent by the Father only or by the Father AND the Son? Now whichever one you choose you are anathematized by the other?

Is that really apostolic? Or is it just carnal?

 

[Angelina]

The spoiler is part of my signature.
Indeed, it has nothing to do with the thread. :)

These debates over the nature of God, in my short experience here, rarely seem to amount to anything but contention.

And many of those who contend (on both sides of the argument) exhibit that those who do not agree are weak in the faith.

It may not be apparent yet, but unless this thread proves to be different than others, it should be apparent soon enough.

It's just my opinion, but I think it is absurd for man to think he understands the nature of the Godhead by what little evidence we have in the Bible.

There was a group of Christians in the 1800s called The Christian Connection. They were essentially anti-creedalist. One of the doctrines they mildly rejected was the Trinity. Their position was basically that, while the Bible surely ascribes full diety to Father, Son, and Spirit (which I believe, as well), it is unwise to package those facts into what so often becomes a test of fellowship. They felt that to say three persons were one was just disjointed, theological nonsense. And to say they believed in a term they could neither understand nor describe logically, they felt, was dishonest. I can't say that their reasoning was without merit (again, just my opinion).

My own denomination lists the Trinity as one of their fundamental beliefs, but it was not always so. And I wouldn't mind if they softened their statement of it just a little.

The strongest evidence for the Trinity doctrine is 1 John 5:7-8, which is not without controversy:

What is the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7-8)? | GotQuestions.org

In fact, the Bible version used right here on CB (ASV) does not utilize the Comma Johanneum.

All I did was quote Scripture—careful not to address anyone.

Sorry if I offended anyone. :)

I personally think a lot can come of it because @Episkopos is a mature christian and so are a number of us here on this thread. If it going to be a matter of agreeing to disagree, then that is fine. I am just interested in what this thread entails, is all :)

 

[Episkopos]

but @Episkopos. : The Hebrew nation does not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, the anointed one and God's only begotten Son? So why would I believe that their dual God? They believe in the Holy Spirit and they believe in Almighty God but not in Jesus...

Exactly! :) But no Jew EVER believed that God's Spirit is a separate person. But they can't explain the duality expressed in ELOHIM.

However, many Jews did end believing in Christ in the early days. There are principalities and powers that want to stop us become one corporate New Man.I see the Trinity doctrine as a reaction against the Jews AND against having to wait on the Lord for baptism in the Spirit. Men love to control things. But God's Spirit is totally out of our control. The Spirit is meant to control us!

The Jews were blinded to the truth until the Gentiles were given a chance. Once they believe in Christ the scales are removed.

 

[BarneyFife]

I personally think a lot can come of it because @Episkopos is a mature christian and so are a number of us here on this thread. If it going to be a matter of agreeing to disagree, then that is fine. I am just interested in what this thread entails, is all :)

I hope you're right, sis. :)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This is a mystery...how both Father and Son share one Holy Spirit.

God is One.

But one what?

God is One Holy Spirit. God IS Spirit.

Does that mean that the Holy Spirit is a separate person?

Of course not.

There is no Trinity....there is a Godhead (Elohim) of both Father and Son. That's it!

A Godhead...that's biblical...a Trinity is Roman Catholic teaching that was invented to control people. No need to seek baptism in the Spirit if you are already baptized in a "trinity." But there is no power in the church that does this.

Instead we need for God's Spirit to truly empower us...and guide us into life. No need to control the faith of others by a outward religious straitjacket. No need for an ecclesiastical hierarchy that pretends to represent God WITHOUT God's presence.

No need for an outward dogmatic religion that avoids God's presence and power.

We need to enter into the love and presence of God by His Spirit to have fellowship with both the Father AND the Son.

It's time to abandon catholic Sunday school dogmas that take the life and power away from the Church.

What say you?

I’m not completely convinced in the trinity. But I do have questions.
1 Corinthians 6:16-17 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. [17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Concerning flesh: is it mind, body and soul? Or is does this come from an trinity theology? If those joined unto the Lord is one spirit ..then is that one spirit with mind, body and soul?

 

[GEN2REV]

when we are baptized in the spirit we specifically receive the spirirt not the father or the son but the spirit so they are clearly seperate people one person yes but one spirit? no. if this was the case we would recieve the father and the son along with the spirit but we do not instead we receive the holy spirit

You might want to study out the following passage a bit and see what conclusions you come to.

It appears to follow the pattern that Christ was establishing in the book of John with His repeated references to "I and the Father are one" John 10:30- type statements.

"If a man love Me, ... My Father will love him, and WE (both) will come unto him, and make OUR abode (home) with him."
John 14:21-23

This is how the Holy Spirit comes to live inside a believer's heart. And it appears the Holy Spirit is both the Father and the Son.

 

[Angelina]

Exactly! :) But no Jew EVER believed that God's Spirit is a separate person. But they can't explain the duality expressed in ELOHIM.

However, many Jews did end believing in Christ in the early days. There are principalities and powers that want to stop us become one corporate New Man.I see the Trinity doctrine as a reaction against the Jews AND against having to wait on the Lord for baptism in the Spirit. Men love to control things. But God's Spirit is totally out of our control. The Spirit is meant to control us!

The Jews were blinded to the truth until the Gentiles were given a chance. Once they believe in Christ the scales are removed.

That is right. The Jews [Judaic] believe that the Holy Spirit was just a force a move made by God in some divine way. They actually only believed in God the Father as we know him or Almighty God so why would I believe what they actually think any way? :)

 

[ScottA]

This is about language. Most languages use masculine and feminine determinates in their nouns. For instance in Hebrew...wisdom is a "she". In French a house and a table are feminine. As in..the house SHE is very pretty. Or...the table SHE is empty.

A good translation eliminates the gender in translating into English because for us masculine and feminine are exclusively used for people not things.

In Proverbs it says wisdom SHE cries out in the streets. Is that because wisdom is a woman? No, it is because the language uses gender in their nouns. The translation should avoid this and just day...Wisdom cries out in the street.

The same goes for Greek. The Greek "autos" means either he or it. They are interchangeable. The same goes for French. In French IL FAIT CHAUD......literally means "he makes hot." But a proper translation makes it....IT is hot (outside).

The Comforter is not a person per se. If someone wants to think it is...then fine. The Comforter is an open door from heaven to be influenced by God's Spirit. If someone wants to think the same person is in every person....well, that's how the Spirit of God works! :)

That is a good answer, certainly fair enough.

As a matter of language, however, a "He" or "It" "Comforter" (summoned)...gives only a 50% possibility of it being one or the other. Such is the confusion of language, which biblically cannot be referenced definitively. So, the case is a good one...but being equally possible, so is just the opposite.

Alternatively, I prefer to go with the providence of God--not regarding language--but regarding His word, which is rather spirit. Which is to say, that even if He put it in the hands of scoundrels for a thousand years...it would be safe and according to His will, leaving us exactly where we are to be. Meaning, I don't see a problem believing either version--even if one is by language and the other more credibly by the spirit and providence of God...because that sword was as much as foretold. ;)

Good job!