If OSAS is false, then what?

[Lambano]

Ok. I think i’m seeing where yall arminians are coming from. And its a bit scary to me. From what yall have said, i would be considered saved.

Seriously? I'm not God (thanks be to God for that!), and it's not my place to say whether you're saved or not, but I'd still encourage you with all my heart to trust Christ to save you. To see Him as your Savior, and not just your Judge, to use your own words. It's not your sin that’s the problem; that was taken care of on the Cross. It’s your lack of trust, i.e. faith.

It's that Sola Fide thing, and that's a point where both Calvinists and Arminians agree.

 

[Lambano]

I could never be arminian, yall see things as being much easier, simpler, and more joyful than i do. Yall must see God much more differently than i do as well. No wonder yall dont worry about judgement day. If i was armenian, i wouldnt either. Wow, i honestly never realized how different calvinism is from armenianism. But i’ll always be calvinist.

If you're open to understanding the Biblical underpinnings of Reformation Arminianism (know your opponent ), I recommend Robert Picirilli's Grace, Faith, Free Will (Paperback) - Walmart.com. It consolidates all the back-and-forth, point-by-point, verse-by-verse arguments and counter-arguments between the Calvinist and Arminian points of view. It's reasonably even-handed, though the author is a Free-Will Baptist professor and his purpose is to make a case for the original theology of the Remonstrants.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Hello all. No doubt, the question of OSAS has been a huge debate around here as of late. And for the most part, i feel like we know who is for and against it.

so what i’d like to know, if OSAS isnt true, then what is true? I’ve never gotten an honest answer from those on this forum as to this question. And my main thoughts on this are, 1. If OSAS isnt true, then what is the requirement to get to Heaven? 2. Since sin no longer matters, are we free to just live however we want?

OSAS isn't true as the bible points out. But I also think it's true that God doesn't give up on people. He selects people and saves them. And as the bible points out also, if we know we're sinners and not righteous then we are far better off: Luke 18:9-14 All fall short of righteousness as God is the only one righteous and good. God knowing he is the only one good, then if anyone will be saved they will not be good people. They will be sinners. It's also important for us to obey the commandments.

 

[Lambano]

I could never be arminian, yall see things as being much easier, simpler, and more joyful than i do. Yall must see God much more differently than i do as well. No wonder yall dont worry about judgement day. If i was armenian, i wouldnt either. Wow, i honestly never realized how different calvinism is from armenianism. But i’ll always be calvinist.

I don't know where you picked up your particular flavor of Calvinism, but if there's no joy there, Jesus must've left the building before you arrived. My recommendation that you check out Key Life Ministries still stands. They're Calvinists, but they preach freedom, joy, and faithfulness to Christ. Three things that I think you could really, really use.

Hey, if you'll always be a Calvinist, you might as well be a free, joyful, and faithful one. You think you're going to Hell anyway; what have you got left to lose?

 

[n2thelight]

Hello all. No doubt, the question of OSAS has been a huge debate around here as of late. And for the most part, i feel like we know who is for and against it.

so what i’d like to know, if OSAS isnt true, then what is true? I’ve never gotten an honest answer from those on this forum as to this question. And my main thoughts on this are, 1. If OSAS isnt true, then what is the requirement to get to Heaven? 2. Since sin no longer matters, are we free to just live however we want?

OSAS is a false doctrine ,all one has to do is look at the (IF'S) in the Word.

Every promise that God gave has a (IF) attached to it

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:10.

The popular mantra of today is that God’s plan of reconciliation of man back to Him is unconditional. This is far from the truth based on the simple yet powerful conditional word "IF".

“IF” is a powerful word that is often not emphasized or considered at all within modern so-called Biblical doctrines. This is done perhaps in order to give credence to these unholy doctrines.

First we should make sure we understand what "IF" means.

Per Webster's 1828 (and all newer dictionaries as well...): "IF"...is used as the sign of a condition, or it introduces a conditional sentence.

So "If" is definitely conditional in how it is used in many instances throughout God’s word...

A lot of people today miss this point entirely or only apply it only where it is convenient.

Another great example of a conditional statement is when Jesus said "If ye love me, keep my commandments”. John 14:15

You cannot have it both ways. Either you love Him by keeping His commandments or you do not keep His commandments which, per the condition set by Jesus, means you do not love Him.

 

[mailmandan]

ALL false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS, which has always been a major red flag for me.

 

[Lambano]

ALL false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS, which has always been a major red flag for me.

Fear is a good tool for keeping the believers under control.

 

[quietthinker]

Hello all. No doubt, the question of OSAS has been a huge debate around here as of late. And for the most part, i feel like we know who is for and against it.

so what i’d like to know, if OSAS isnt true, then what is true? I’ve never gotten an honest answer from those on this forum as to this question. And my main thoughts on this are, 1. If OSAS isnt true, then what is the requirement to get to Heaven? 2. Since sin no longer matters, are we free to just live however we want?

You are free to live however you want. The question is, how do you want to live?

 

[quietthinker]

Fear is a good tool for keeping the believers under control.

It's not the tool God uses!

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

It's not the tool God uses!

i would disagree with that. “Turn or burn” is pretty clear in the realm of fear.

 

[praise_yeshua]

i would disagree with that. “Turn or burn” is pretty clear in the realm of fear.

1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

 

[quietthinker]

i would disagree with that. “Turn or burn” is pretty clear in the realm of fear.

In that case you have not met the Jesus I know Ll_s. Love does not make threats.
Threats are the realm of pagan gods, not the God of the Jesus I know.

 

[Lambano]

In that case you have not met the Jesus I know Ll_s. Love does not make threats.
Threats are the realm of pagan gods, not the God of the Jesus I know.

When my wife's Pre-K (ages 3-5) Sunday School class starts up again, I'll tie you in on Zoom and you can read the story of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11) to the kids. That'll teach 'em not to tell lies!

 

[quietthinker]

Hello all. No doubt, the question of OSAS has been a huge debate around here as of late. And for the most part, i feel like we know who is for and against it.

so what i’d like to know, if OSAS isnt true, then what is true? I’ve never gotten an honest answer from those on this forum as to this question. And my main thoughts on this are, 1. If OSAS isnt true, then what is the requirement to get to Heaven? 2. Since sin no longer matters, are we free to just live however we want?

Salvation is not dependant on one's theology. None of us have all our views of God correct. We do the best we can flawed though it is.
Debating as if Salvation is dependant on one's correct theology is a trip.....a religious trip which is oppressive and ego driven.
Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Did he achieve his aim? Yes he did.....and that with a resounding victory.

You now hear that good news of Jesus' victory over death for you and you do something with it. You dismiss it or you embrace it with gratitude or you turn it into a religious trip. Religious trippers are everywhere not just in Christian circles. Religious tripping extends to the sporting arena as it does the Pulpit.

Extended debates pulling all the fine points out of a word, dissecting words from another language to extract a justification for ones particular view is helpful at times but a steady diet of this stuff screams religious fanaticism and has nothing to do with the Jesus of Scripture.

Jesus is relational. He relates with God, he relates with his mates and he relates with people of every stripe and creed. Love is relational....love is vulnerable.....and if one can't see that, they have never loved or never understood its nature.

So all the ballyhoo about OSAS is just that.....another religious decoy to distract one from knowing the friend of sinners.

 

[praise_yeshua]

When my wife's Pre-K (ages 3-5) Sunday School class starts up again, I'll tie you in on Zoom and you can read the story of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11) to the kids. That'll teach 'em not to tell lies!

Doubt it. If God keep killing people for lying to Spirit of God, this world would be much less crowded.....

 

[amigo de christo]

When my wife's Pre-K (ages 3-5) Sunday School class starts up again, I'll tie you in on Zoom and you can read the story of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11) to the kids. That'll teach 'em not to tell lies!

Its all over , even the new testament where true ones gave dire warnings .
Even JESUS rebuked those cities who had not yet repented , saying it will be far worse for YOU than even for Sodom .
And how often we see paul making grave warnings as well .
yes indeed my friend , save some through Compassion , some through Fear
Let us behold BOTH the goodness of GOD and the Severity of GOD as well .
For every word is for our good , every reminder , every dire warning to every promise worketh good unto the soul
of the one who both feasts upon those words and are doers of said words .

 

[amigo de christo]

Peter told simeon Your money PERISH with you , for ye have thought the gift of God could be purchased with money .
DID that make peter a hater . Nope .

 

[amigo de christo]

Seriously? I'm not God (thanks be to God for that!), and it's not my place to say whether you're saved or not, but I'd still encourage you with all my heart to trust Christ to save you. To see Him as your Savior, and not just your Judge, to use your own words. It's not your sin that’s the problem; that was taken care of on the Cross. It’s your lack of trust, i.e. faith.

It's that Sola Fide thing, and that's a point where both Calvinists and Arminians agree.

actually sin would be a major problem . But that stems from lack of trust and faith in Christ .
Ye shall know them by their fruits . What is the fruit of the wicked .........TO SIN .
This too is why paul was warning and reminding some in the church
That whose servant we are is who we obey . Its good to remind the peoples .
For there are many , as i once was , who though they can holler with their lips the name of GOD
their heart has not been converted , their faith is dead and they still love sin .
That was me my friend . But praise GOD for HIS wonderful grace that truly LED ME TO TRUE FAITH IN THE TRUE BIBLICAL CHRIST .
Now , HANDS UP , cause its LORD praising and tis LORD thanking TIME .

 

[quietthinker]

When my wife's Pre-K (ages 3-5) Sunday School class starts up again., I'll tie you in on Zoom and you can read the story of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11) to the kids. That'll teach 'em not to tell lies!

We attribute the death of Ananias and Sapphire to God. I think we err in this deduction. God is not a killer.
I think they died of heart failure from being caught out on their scheme they thought was waterproof.
Thinking we can pull one over on God like, let's say Judas did, results in self demise. God doesn't kill anybody.

We need to know who the killer is....and how he has crept into scripture through man's shortsightedness. He has given God the blame and men swallow the lie hook, line and sinker.

There is heaps to talk about re this but without enquiry, without actually squaring in our understanding of this it would be akin to peeing into the wind.

 

[Cassandra]

I just don't get it.

I asked this several months ago and all I got was some flack.

If you get angry with someone, in a a fight or something, and you are OSAS from a few years back, but you injure someone, and the police see you and shoot you, and you die, are you still saved?
Or if you commit what we otherlings would consider sin, and you don't ask forgiveness since you don't sin, are you still saved?
Do you pray "Forgive us our trespasses , as we forgive those who trespass against us?" And if you do, does that negate your belief in OSAS because you are acknowledging sin?

Someone before had told me that OSAS people don't sin, but when I asked what you call it if one does something wrong, and , they said something like "It's not really a sin, it's something else. Anyone know where this is in the Bible?
James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Please enlighten me, I do not understand.