Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Most of your points have been covered over and over again for the last 70+ years. Like you pointed out, they are not new and have been taught for many years. They could have been taught before the 1950's even.
Timing of Eze 37 and 38 pre Trib?
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Davy
Well-Known Member
No, Alaska is PART of it, because the western Christian nations today represent the "house of Israel". The "house of Israel" after God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms only represented the ten northern tribes of Israel. The fact that you don't know who the "house of Israel" is today, nor where they wound up per Bible prophecy, reveals you instead heed Jewish doctrine that wrongly believes the ten tribes are no more.
How is it that one race would not need protection while others would? You seem to be saying that because God protects some people that they, therefore could not be Jewish. Also, the things that happen when the seals are opened do seem like judgments! Example:
Revelation 6:12
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood
Revelation 7:2
And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea
It seems like the seventh seal angel
Another possible way to look at this is that the judgments just get more and more severe. In that case, the trumpet angels are just the extension of the ones before.
Also, we see that martyrs in heaven are crying for revenge already.
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
We should not assume that there were no believers in that crowd that had been killed in the end time, by the final world government.
I would ask yourself why it is that you seek to make these people from tribes of Israel to not be Jewish? It obviously involves a lot of twisting and changing meanings, and contortions.
The problem is that when people wave off given numbers and totally spiritualize them away from all actual reality, that is often simply not believing what is said. There are spiritual aspects to numbers, of course, but that is not a carte blanche to wipe away the physical realities.
Sorry, that is convoluted and speculative. The danger is that such mental gymnastics shroud the simple truth of Scripture.
There is a place for everything. The place for spiritual aspects of numbers adds to the reality and truth of the bible, rather than takes away.
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Why make stuff up rather than representing Scripture?
Didn't Jesus refer to Israel when He was here? Was He deceived also?
Cultish obsession over the obviously ridiculous is not a good thing.
Keraz
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It is you who falls into error when you fail to recognize the separation between the House of Judah; the Jews and the House of Israel; now all the Christian peoples.
The Bible prophets carefully maintain this separation and describes the different outcomes for both Houses.
This is proved by how the Blessings promised by Moses and Jacob to the 10 Northern tribes, are fulfilled in the Western nations.
WE Christians are the true Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16
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Ronald D Milam
Well-Known Member
You do not understand the points I make at all brother. And you have neve seen the things I bring forth for the most part. Now, they will be 100 percent different from you because you are imho, wrong on nearly 100 percent of your Eschatological understandings, so from what I have seen, you were not called unto this brother, I was.
When we get into all of the Revelation is past tense, and the Seals were opened long ago stuff, honestly, I just shake my head and move on. Someone is not hearing correctly when they go down the rabbit holes. Satan never stops deceiving brother. But like Paul, when he said who has deceived you ole foolish Galatians, I am not going to just agree with people to get them to like me. That's not me brother, I am going to be honest because I actually care.
No. The bible says tribes from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. That does not mean tribes from the suburbs of Anchorage, or on a reserve, etc. Israel also gets attacked in the prophesy of the OP here. Not Fairbanks. Christians are not tribes of Israel. There is no separation mentioned in Eze or Revelation. The question is why do you seek to rob Jews of their place in prophesy? What is your problem?
Except you made that up. No western nation was spoken about by Moses or Jacob as being the future children of Jacob or etc.
Just look at who he was talking TO.
Galatians 6:13
For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
So in context then, it is saying that circumcision has no real value. That does not say there are no Jews, or that Alaska is where the tribes will live or etc. Christians were not circumcised. So it was talking about Jews who were. Of those people, those that realize whacking off skin does not save them, only Jesus does, they are the true Israel of God. Nothing there supports you.
Ronald D Milam
Well-Known Member
Sorry about the spelling on the other reply I was trying to eat breakfast and type, LOL.
Jesus told us there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth in Matt. 24:51 following his Matt. 24:36 point about the days of Noah. In other words, the 5 virgins who miss the Rapture may give their lives unto Christ during the 70th week, but the Gentile Christians will be mostly martyrs during that time, unless they are keen enough to flee unto the Petra/Bozrah area. The reason God protects the Jews is he promised Abraham a continual seed, God states he does not do it for Israel's sake, but for His holy names sake.
To have a "Kingdom Reign" Jesus needs a Throne of David to sit upon for his 1000 year reign. So, God saves Israel out of mercy, but He saves the SEED for Jesus and because of His promises unto Abraham. If you are a Christian and are one of the 5 Virgin Brides who misses the rapture, you may indeed give your life unto Christ Jesus during the tribulation, but you are going to have to go through hell on this earth during the 70th week, thus the point by Jesus is truly valid and it is truth in full. "THERE WILL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH". We need to be ready at the Rapture or we are going to gave to make Heaven as a Martyr. I think the USA will be wiped off the map by the asteroid, just like Tornadoes kill Christians and non Christians today, there will be many who die at that time, 1/3 of the world, so those who come to Christ during the 70th week may well be killed by this asteroid, we will not be protected by God, He forewarns the 5 foolish virgins, we must be ready.
God protects ONLY the Jews after the time of the Gentiles (Rapture) is come in, He protects us in Heaven, but not The Remnant Church as seen in Rev. 12, Satan TURNS from the Woman (Israel) who is protected and goes after the Remnant which can only be the Remnant Gentile Church, for the most part, a few Jewish converts can be in other nations who do not make it to Petra, but mostly they are all in Israel by this time, imho.
I know, I thought that for over 30 years, the "ole 21 Judgments", I also thought the Anti-Christ was the one who "takes away the Sacrifice and places the AoD" but its not him, he doesn't even become the Beast over Israel until 30 days after the 1290, when he conquers Israel/THE MANY at the 1260.
Think of the Seals as Jesus Prophesying in Heaven amongst us the Church (Rev. 4:4 and 5:9-10 is the Church) just before God's Wrath falls in Rev. 8. This is why the 7th Seal is over in Revelation chapter 8 (Hmmm). You see, just like Joel 2:31 points to a future Day of the Lord (DOTL) event that brings fire and darkness, so does Jesus in the 6th Seal, one was 2500 years ago and the other will be mere weeks or days before the DOTL (Asteroid) hits earth, but both are Prophesies, even though Jesus is doing this in the future, it was foretold 2000 years ago, but he has yet to open the Seals.
So, the Anti-Christ is WAITING (he hears Dark Sentences/Satan's Whispers Daniel 8:25) until God's Wrath falls because Satan knows this will wipe out 1/3 of the world and bring Chaos, thus he attacks amidst this chaos, whilst Russia, Turkey and Iran's Armies are already out of his way via Gog & Magog which happens before these events. I think this Asteroid takes the USA out of his way, so the Anti-Christ is told by Satan to WAIT, WAIT. Then we get the Seals Prophesied by Jesus which all come to pass with the Seven Trumps, they all come to pass over the exact same 42 months, in this manner: The Anti-Christ is the first 5 Seals as Prophesied by Jesus, the 6th Seal is God's Wrath which is soon to come, they all cover the exact same 42 months.
1.) He goes forth Conquering for 42 months. 2.) He takes away peace/Brings Wars for 42 months. 3.) His Wars and Decrees bring Famine over a 42 month period. 4.) His reign and tyranny bring Death/Sickness/Hades or the grave over a 42 month period of time. 5.) His rule brings many Martyrs over his 42 month rule. This is why Jesus tells the Martyrs under the Altar they MUST WAIT until their brothers have all been killed in like manner as they have (or until the Beasts 42 month rule is over).
6.) Seal #6 Covers the exact same 42 months, because the Beast waits for God Wrath to fall before he goes forth conquering. This is Jesus telling us what will come to pass when God's Wrath falls (in Rev. 8) and how men on earth will react, their fears and terrors of God's Wrath is pointed out, just like Joel 2:31 pointed out these future events to come. Now I will tie it all together.
We see the 144,000, who I see as the 3-5 million Jews who repent (see Zechariah 13:8-9) and then flee unto the Petra and Bozrah area mountains in Rev. 7, we see the Pre Trib Raptured Church in Rev. 7:9-16, THEN we see the 7th Seal over in Rev. 8, because that is when the Judgments finally fall. NOTICE, the Trumps are readied by 7 Angels to Sound, the Vials are readied by 7 Angels to Pour them out, but no Angels ready any Seals, they are not Judgments brother !!
The First Four Trumps are the DOTL, in Trump #1 the fire comes in first because there are pieces that fall off of an Asteroid which litters the countryside before the IMAPACT. Then in Trump #2 we get the IMPACT. Then in Trump #3 we get the WORMWOOD FALLOUT so to speak, the Asteroid that killed off the Dino's 70 million years ago put out so much sulfur it poisoned almost everything, this might have some unknown Element/metal unto us that poisons 1/3 of the Freshwaters, but its the same Asteroid IMPACT. Trump #4 is just all the smoke that gets up in the Jetstream via 1/3 of all the trees in the whole world burning, which also means cities and houses will also burn, and thus the skies all around the globe will do what? GET DARK !! And with 1/3 of the world burning (the New World IMHO) the moon will look Blood Red !! It will have a blood red hue to it, no doubt. As Joel 2:31 says.
So, Joel 2:31 AND the 6th Seal BOTH point to the First Four Trumps as the DOTL Event.
Now, I will demonstrate this by juxtaposing it unto a closet door.
Lets say you were sent a bunch of gifts and you locked them in a closet with 7 locks. You then welcomed some friends over and as you unlocked the first lock you described a Gold Harmonica that was in the closet unto your friends, as you opened the 2nd lock you described a nice dress shirt, and on and on until at the 6th lock you opened it and described a nice iMac Computer that had been gifted you. There is still one lock on this closet door, yet NO ONE has seen any of the gifts yet have they? They have only heard you describing them. Then as you finally open the 7th lock do you say anything this time, or do you just STAY SILENT and open the door? Well, Jesus stays Silent as does all of heaven, because Judgment is now at hand and there is nothing left to be said. At this time in Heaven it is a somber moment, just as God repented when He flooded the world, it grieves God/Jesus and all of the hosts of heaven, but a just God must bring forth a just judgment, Amen.
The Seals are just like the above demonstration, they have God's Judgments SEAELD UP until the 7th Seal is taken off, then everything Jesus spoke of all comes to pass over a 42 month period of time. As does Joel's 2:31 Prophecy. Rev. 8, 9 and 16 (I think 15&16 should go together) are the 42 months of God's Judgments all contained in 7 Trumps, the last three of which are the Three Woes as Rev. 8:13 calls them, thus the 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe and in it is all of the 7 Vials which Rev. 15:1 says will Complete/Fill up God's Wrath. Now we can understand why when the 7 Thunders have sounded in Rev. 10 time will be no more [as we now it]. Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and most of 19 are Parenthetical Citation chapters that happen during Rev. 8, 9 and 16, they just have different plots/subplots within each chapter. For instance Rev. 11 is the Two-witnesses ministry which starts 75 days before the DOTL at the 1335 (they must get Israel to Repent first, BEFORE the DOTL arrives) and they thus must also die 75 days before the Beast since they both have "only 1260 day Ordained Offices on this earth", and thus they die at the 2nd Woe, while the Beast dies at the 7th Vial. Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 all start via the Rev. 8 (day 1260) judgments and end via Jesus' 2nd coming. (these 42 months all parallel with Rev 8, 9 and 16). Rev. 14 is The Harvest Chapter and has a flashback to the Pre Trib Rapture in verse 14 and thus covers all seven years. Likewise Rev. 19 covers all 7 years also because we Marry the Lamb then return with him to Armageddon which is the Marriage Supper event.
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Ronald D Milam
Well-Known Member
CONTINUED.............
I assume you must be speaking about those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 here, at least I think that's the point. So, I have come to the conclusion that those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 CAN NOT be from the 70th week tribulation and can ONLY BE from the Church Age Tribulation. That one word throws us off, it did me also for 30 years, until I understood that John 16:33 tells us that ALL TIME on this earth is tribulation. Thus the scriptures which once were a contradiction can now be understood. You see, those seen under the Altar at the 5th Seal are told that they MUST WAIT to get vengeance until all of their brothers have been killed in like manner as they were, or until the Beasts 42 month rule is over. Also, in Rev. 20:4 we see that those who refused to take the Mark of the Beast and became Martyrs are only Judged AFTER Jesus' 2nd Coming, and they alone will live and reign with Jesus (the only ones with Glorious bodies at least) for 1000 years. So, those seen under the Altar at the 5th Seal can not be from the 70th week, thus they can only be from the Pre Trib Rapture Church Age years, there have been millions of Martyrs that have been put to death during the Church Age Troubles, BUT.....We try to pigeon hole God's vocabulary, He can't say that the 2000 some odd year Church Age is GREATER than the 7 year 70th week, even though it is as in 2000>7. So, if you believe in the Pre Trib Rapture (and I know you do) this solves this seeming contradiction, those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 are the Church in Heaven, no one after the Rapture will go to Heaven during the 70th week, REMEMBER, the door to the Wedding will be shut, no one else is allowed in. So, those in the 5th Seal who cry out for vengeance (Jesus FORETELLS of their cries unto him) are told they must wait until the Beasts murdering ways are over, after all he is given power for 42 months, not just for a few months.
No, they are the Jews who REPENT, and then flee Judea. But the 144,000 is CODE for ALL Israel, as in 3-5 million Jews who repent as Zechariah 13:8-9 says, 1/3 of the Jews will repent, whilst 2/3 refuse to repent and will perish. What I am saying is just like The Woman in Rev. 12 these are the exact same entity, described as 144,000 which is just CODE for all Israel, or all the Jews who Repent. The book of Revelation is encoded for a reason, Rome did not want to hear she was going to be judged or that the whole world was going to be judged, so Babylon was used for the WHOLE WORLD, thus the Romans laughed, Babylon was a dead city by that time. God also did not use the name of Israel because Rome would have seen that as treason if John had written that Israel would in the future rule the world, after Rome had just sacked Israel, the Romans would have been none too happy. So "The Woman" and the "144,000" was used instead. God gave the Book of Revelation to Jesus who gave it to John. So, I do no such thing, I think you just misunderstood my reply somewhat.
God Bless
I answered the first two points above I think.
I assume you must be speaking about those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 here, at least I think that's the point. So, I have come to the conclusion that those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 CAN NOT be from the 70th week tribulation and can ONLY BE from the Church Age Tribulation. That one word throws us off, it did me also for 30 years, until I understood that John 16:33 tells us that ALL TIME on this earth is tribulation. Thus the scriptures which once were a contradiction can now be understood. You see, those seen under the Altar at the 5th Seal are told that they MUST WAIT to get vengeance until all of their brothers have been killed in like manner as they were, or until the Beasts 42 month rule is over. Also, in Rev. 20:4 we see that those who refused to take the Mark of the Beast and became Martyrs are only Judged AFTER Jesus' 2nd Coming, and they alone will live and reign with Jesus (the only ones with Glorious bodies at least) for 1000 years. So, those seen under the Altar at the 5th Seal can not be from the 70th week, thus they can only be from the Pre Trib Rapture Church Age years, there have been millions of Martyrs that have been put to death during the Church Age Troubles, BUT.....We try to pigeon hole God's vocabulary, He can't say that the 2000 some odd year Church Age is GREATER than the 7 year 70th week, even though it is as in 2000>7. So, if you believe in the Pre Trib Rapture (and I know you do) this solves this seeming contradiction, those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 are the Church in Heaven, no one after the Rapture will go to Heaven during the 70th week, REMEMBER, the door to the Wedding will be shut, no one else is allowed in. So, those in the 5th Seal who cry out for vengeance (Jesus FORETELLS of their cries unto him) are told they must wait until the Beasts murdering ways are over, after all he is given power for 42 months, not just for a few months.
No, they are the Jews who REPENT, and then flee Judea. But the 144,000 is CODE for ALL Israel, as in 3-5 million Jews who repent as Zechariah 13:8-9 says, 1/3 of the Jews will repent, whilst 2/3 refuse to repent and will perish. What I am saying is just like The Woman in Rev. 12 these are the exact same entity, described as 144,000 which is just CODE for all Israel, or all the Jews who Repent. The book of Revelation is encoded for a reason, Rome did not want to hear she was going to be judged or that the whole world was going to be judged, so Babylon was used for the WHOLE WORLD, thus the Romans laughed, Babylon was a dead city by that time. God also did not use the name of Israel because Rome would have seen that as treason if John had written that Israel would in the future rule the world, after Rome had just sacked Israel, the Romans would have been none too happy. So "The Woman" and the "144,000" was used instead. God gave the Book of Revelation to Jesus who gave it to John. So, I do no such thing, I think you just misunderstood my reply somewhat.
No, I have been doing this 37 years, I understand these things brother. I understand when they are used in such a way by diagnosing them in full through MUCH STUDY. I did an Exegesis on Daniel chapters 11 and 12 where I name every King and all of the players in Dan. 11, and how every king came to power etc. etc. Then in Daniel 12 I was given what Daniels 1290 and 1335 mean ALL BECAUSE of my deep studies of Dan. 11, it all revolves around a High Priest name Jason, (real name Yeshua) who is the exact likeness of the coming False Prophet and who bribed Antiochus in order to be named the High Priest, thus I now understand what the 1290 and 1335 are, the 1290 will be the future False Prophet and the 1335 will be the coming Two-witnesses and the TIMELINES PROVES IT 100 PERCENT !! I tested it all and it passes every test !! So, I am well versed on these things, not just guessing like most do brother.
Umm, no, this is factual, just because you have never heard of it does not mean its convoluted, it just means others have delved deeper on these thigs than you have brother. God gives us shadows of things to come all the time. The 7 Feasts all paint a picture which glorifies God in that it proves Israel were celebrating REAL FUTURE EVENTS whilst they did not even understand what the events would be, that is obvious, Jesus is our Passover, he was WITHOUT SIN, he was the First-fruits of the Grave, we are NOW Harvesting souls for Jesus during the Summer Harvest. The Feast of Trumps always ended the Harvest, Paul was speaking about the LAST TRUMP, when the New Year was close they sent out two-witnesses to spy out when it came in, when they saw the new moon they sent back word and then the Jewish leaders sounded the Shofar in 9 sets off 11 or 99 times then the LAST TRUMP (100th trump) officially ended the Harvest and announced that Atonement and Tabernacles were nigh at hand. Jesus ENDS THE HARVEST, how can a Pre Trib guy not see this? (Rev. 14:14 Jesus Harvests the Church) Then Israel ATONES I can show you WHERE they Atone (Zechariah 13:8-9) and how the very next verse is the coming DOTL (Zechariah 14:1) all because this is my calling brother. So, Israel Atones and then lastly Jesus returns and sets up a kingdom in Jerusalem, and thus God Dwells with Israel, you can't deny what the Feasts say brother, a LOT of people understand this now. This is not some new thing, this has been a well known understanding for 10-15 years.
God Bless
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If using Mat 24:51 to refer to Tribulation believers then we have them being 'cut in pieces' and cast off with the hypocrites. That does not describe believers. That describes people that do not believe. They did not believe that 'their lord' was coming. So they sinned a lot and so were punished by being cut in pieces. There is no need for most Tribulation saints to go to Israel, or Petra. The specific 144,000 and the two witnesses are protected in that time. This does not mean others will also not receive some help.
Yes He saves Israel.
Nope, sorry. All Christians go up in the air to be with Jesus at the Rapture. Those who do not are not believers. As I pointed out there is also a cutting in pieces for the folks gnashing their teeth, so that is not believers either.
Those who are saved are ready! Ready or not, here He comes.
Interesting speculation. Of course the saved then need no more worry about asteroids or death than we do now.
He protects the 2 witnesses. Show the chapter and verse that says no other race or people have any protection?
He goes after all believers, Jewish or not.
Yes it is the man of sin that places the Abomination of Desolation. Where did you get the idea it was not?
Dan 11: 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down
Why would I do that?
I don't remember when this happened?
Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
or this
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Can you refresh our memory as to when a quarter of the population of earth died?
or this
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
There are still stars up there. The sun is not black as black can be. Really. The moon is not red either.
Oh and here is a good one that certainly has not happened!
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
or this
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
You really want to rest your case on the modern divisions of chapters in the bible??
No. Joel was saying what SHALL happen. That word was used many many many times in the chapter. In Rev 6 it has happened. For example notice the past tense when they hid themselves in the rocks.
Pure speculation. Try to separate realty from your hunches.
How can you place it all in the last half of the 7 years?
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Can you rule out this happening before the last half of the Tribulation?
Except you just inserted the 42 months wily nily.
Part 2 of reply
The first half of that 7 years is also wrath.
The seals are not spoken about as future prophesy but a happening thing.
So are the 2 witnesses 'really' seven hundred thousand? Are the seven vials 'really' 100 vials? Who says you can turn 144,000 into millions?? So the 12 thousand in each tribe then is what, 'really' 500,000 from each tribe? Who gave you the right to add to the text?
Says..who?
The first half of that 7 years is also wrath.
The seals are not spoken about as future prophesy but a happening thing.
So are the 2 witnesses 'really' seven hundred thousand? Are the seven vials 'really' 100 vials? Who says you can turn 144,000 into millions?? So the 12 thousand in each tribe then is what, 'really' 500,000 from each tribe? Who gave you the right to add to the text?
No doubt they are at least part of that crowd.
Jesus opened the seals. Doesn't that count?
Objection: Speculation.
Objection: Speculation
Objection: Speculation
Objection: Speculation
Joel says nothing of cosmic impact. He prophesied about the darkness in that time. The rest in in your head.
More speculation about why there is silence in heaven. Another possibility (and there are likely many more possible reasons) is that the great time has finally come. A very serious and terrible time.
When Jesus opened the seals, we are told to 'come and see'. Not 'behold what will one day come to pass'. It's now showtime when they are opened.
That sounds like confused speculation upon speculation upon presupposition upon loosely connected verses.
Says who? If many died in the early stages of the 7 years, they would be there also. Why claim you know?
Says your opinion.
Says who? God knows what He is saying. If He points out a special 144,000 Jews, great.
Too bad I didn't chat with you 38 years ago then, I could have straightened you out.
Hardly.
The numbers God gives are not what is in need of diagnosis! The people who wave them off by spiritualizing them away are in need.
I have heard of numerology, and people using that sort of thing in the bible. To a certain degree it can be fun and interesting. It is not something we should obsess on, and use to interpret major doctrines.
Don't get too hung up on Jewish feasts. God's trumpet in heaven is not some Jew in Jerusalem blowing a goat horn.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Funny that you would say something like that, since you're obviously clueless about that Bible history of the two separate kingdoms of Israel per God's Holy Writ.
You are the one following a CULT, I am staying with what is written in God's Word. You might want to begin your study of that history of the two houses starting in 1 Kings 11 before you mouth a bunch of hot air like you're doing and make yourself look silly.
Once God scattered the ten northern tribes of Israel, the only children of Israel left in the holy land were the Jews of the "kingdom of Judah", or "house of Judah". And those were only a small remnant of Jews of the southern kingdom. The majority of the "house of Judah" stayed in Babylon after their 70 years captivity, and were further scattered in the countries.
So since only those of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Levi, and some small remnants of the ten tribes, were the ONLY Israelites left in the holy land, they of course only claimed to be Israel. And to this day, the Jews claim they are the only true ones of the seed of Israel, which of course is false, because the ten northern tribes of Israel, which made up the majority of the children of Israel, and were scattered first, were not called Jews.
And the Book of Hosea is specifically given about the ten northern tribes of the "house of Israel", which in Hosea's day was still a northern kingdom separate from Judah in the south. Only a very short passage in Hosea even mentions Judah. The rest is all about the ten tribe "kingdom of Israel" or "house of Israel" ONLY.
But in Romans 9, Apostle Paul pulls in the whole Christian Church when quoting from Hosea about the ten tribe's final establishing under Christ along with believing Gentiles.
Apostle Paul speaking to Gentile Roman believers on Christ:
Rom 9:23-26
23 And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He saith also in Osee, "I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
KJV
That above in red is Paul quoting from the Book of Hosea, which originally was written ONLY to the ten tribe "house of Israel". "Osee" means Hosea.
Since you listen to JEWISH CULTS instead of reading the simplicity of Bible Scripture, especially per The New Testament, then that is why you don't know this, and would even be ignorant enough to call these Scriptures a cult, because it is God's Word as written you are calling a 'cult', and not me.
Hos 1:4-6
4 And the LORD said unto him, 'Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
5 And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.'
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, 'Call her name Lo-ruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.'
KJV
You are welcome to your pet theories. When I see God choosing 12,000 people from each of the tribes of Israel, well, it is what it is, no Alaska needed.
So when Israel is attacked, (as in the topic here) do you think that they are attacking the wrong place and people? Do you think God lost anything? He doesn't even lose out bodies if we are incinerated or drowned, why would He lose track of whole tribes?
Who cares? God knows how to pick people from where He says.
Referring to people that way in that time was fine. It did not make Jesus lose track of the children of Abraham and Jacob. Relax.
But in Romans 9, Apostle Paul pulls in the whole Christian Church when quoting from Hosea about the ten tribe's final establishing under Christ along with believing Gentiles.
Again, not even in the ballpark. You do realize when 'that day' is?
18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
That is when He returns. Not today. Not in Hosea's day. When Israel is saved and He comes, did you think He would have any problem knowing who is who??
Why continue to make things up that are foolish lies? I never heard of 'Jewish cults' let alone read them!
In that day...get it yet?
Ronald D Milam
Well-Known Member
My14 year old Dog had surgery today so I was out of pocket.
That's not the point overall, the point is the 5 Brides will be in the same exact fix as those seen in Matt. 24:51. That should be obvious, I didn't feel the need to point to the verses which follows in Matt. 25:1-13, there were no chapter breaks until the KJV inserted them. So, Jesus gives us back to back, those who will be left in Matt. 24:36-51 AND the 5 Virgins that do not make the wedding, they will both be in the Tribulation where there will be Weeping and gnashing of teeth. Basic stuff.
Everyone who says Lord Lord is not of Jesus, that is why Jesus tells of 5 Brides not making it to the wedding call, that means half of so called Christians are not really Christians, to be Christian means to be Christ like, not of this evil world. Just saying Jesus is Lord will not cut it. The Holy Spirit has to be in our hearts, and He will not stay there if we wallow in willful sins. The 144,000 are the Jews that flee unto Petra. That is why they are protected, but they are the 3-5 million Jews who repent.
Agreed, but not every Jew, only those that come unto him by Faith alone. (1/3 in Zech. 13)
10 = Completion, thus the 10 Virgins represent the Church or ALL Christendom, there will be a lot of people professing who are not really of God. Anyone, I repeat, ANYONE who advocates for homosexuality, abortion etc. I don't care if they go to church and give half their money to the church, they will not get into heaven. Do you not understand what the Oil in the Lamp represents? Its the Holy Spirit, if you do not have the Holy Spirit living in you then you are not going up at the rapture, plain and simple. Nancy Pelosi is an evil thief, unless she repents she will be right here on earth after the Rapture. You can confess and do all manner of works in Jesus' name and Jesus himself said he will tell many to depart from me for I never knew you. People can't "GAME God". He knows the heart.
Saved is a relative meaning, no one is saved until they make it to Heaven, many will "THINK THEY ARE SAVED" If Florida is leading Bama 17-7 at the half but lose 28-17 were they "Winning" at the half 17-7 or Losing while ahead 17-7 ? Reading the word tells us there are many fake people God sees through.
People that come to Jesus DURING the 70th week however will, that is why they are warned to be ready and not to tarry. That is why there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, by all people in the tribulation period, even if you come to Christ during the tribulation, unless you are the Jewish peoples. Its not "speculation" brother, 1/3 of the world gets destroyed, I looked up the size of the Pacific Ocean AND he Landmass of North & South America, and the Pacific has 1/3 of all the waters on earth and those two continents (which are really one landmass) have 1/3 of the Landmass on this entire earth. If Apophis hits (it will) it would hit just off the California/Mexico Coastline. God has given us the destination via the 1/3 and since Jesus will be ruling for 1000 years from Jerusalem where would burning up 1/3 of the world make the most sense? On the OTHER SIDE of the world !!
Well, the Martyrs are Gentiles, the Remnant in Rev. 12 can ONLY BE Gentiles. It is easy to prove, the Woman (1/3 Jews who repent in Zechariah 13:8-9) can not be touched so Satan gets angry and sends the Anti-Christ's Armies after THE REMNANT whom have the Testimony of Jesus, well, the 2/3 of Jews who did NOT REPENT neither can be a remnant (small part of something) nor have they the testimony of Jesus, so the Remnant can ONLY BE the Gentile Church on earth, which is indeed a SMALL PART, while the rest of the Church is in Heaven marrying the Lamb.
The Anti-Christ is given power over "THE SAINTS" in Rev. 13 and Dan. chapter 8. But the Jews are PROTECTED, so that means EVERYONE but the Jews are NOT PROTECTED.
But he CAN NOT get at the Jews (The Woman in Rev. 12) and thus he TURNS and goes after the Remnant of her SEED (Jesus was that seed). All of these things affirm your Pre Trib understanding but you have been in and around the 2 + 2 = 5 crowd so long its hard to see its really 4. Read Revelation 12:16 and see if Satan doesn't TURN from the Woman whom God (Eagles Wings) protects, and then goes after the [Gentile] Remnant [Church].
You just conflated two passages, that's a no no. No one stated he would not EVENTUALLY build a Palace in Jerusalem because the word of Gid never lies. But he can not take away the Sacrifice (which is the False Prophet High Priest STOPPING Jesus worship, not some EVIL Meat sacrifice which is a defilement itself) and place the AoD at the 1290 because he isn't allowed to go forth conquering until the 1260, which comes 30 days AFTER the 1290, if you understand the timing of the 1335, 1290 THEN the 1260 follows both. Each are numbered events that are THAT MANY DAYS away from the 2nd Coming which ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS Daniel was just shown in Dan. 11:36-45. The Two-witnesses come first (1335) a Jewish High Priest being POLITICAL comes next the E.U. Anti0Christ will CAUSE (Reread Daniel 9:27) these things to happen. Just like Hitler through threats CAUSED others to give him the Sudetenland in the 1930s, before he conquered anything yet, because Israel will be a part of the E.U. that is the Agreement (Covenant) they enter into.
Once one understands the 1335, 1290 and 1260 all End Time Eschatology opens up.
It doesn't matter what you do or don't do, these are facts. The Seals ARE NOT Judgments.
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Ronald D Milam
Well-Known Member
CONTINUED.............
This has zero to do with a minor division, this 7th Seal SKIPS a whole chapter and is then seen over in Rev. 8 with the Trumpet Judgments Arrival. We have the 144,000 IN BETWEEN in Rev. 7. So, even though there were no chapter and verses, common sense tells us this was placed by God over in the 7 Trumps for a reason, the 7th Seal opens the Judgment Scroll. If people only used common sense they could understand the seals fairly easy A king(s) usually sent a message with three signet seals to make sure his correspondence was not spied out, if one seal had been broken his message was still safe, but when all three came off only then could his message be read, so the scroll is SEALED by Jesus/God (7 meaning Divine Completion) thus no one can open these Judgments up until God says its time. In Rev. 5 no one was found worthy to open the book of Judgments, but Jesus was Worthy, the Slain Lamb of God. The Seals only BIND the Judgments. I am correct, regardless of your past understandings, they will not hold up on this.
You are WRONG, if you can't grasp it that's on you. When you get to heaven you will then understand it, I understand it now because I have been called unto this. And I don't "SPECULATE" I have the holy spirit and even when I did not get these things for 30 years I did not offer SPECULATON as facts, those are your words, not mine and not God's. I know when I know that I know, ever if you do not know brother. Men's traditions have you blocked, that was the Pharisees problems.
And Jesus was showing John THE FUTURE EVENTS......thus what was TO COME.
I have a 10,000 piece puzzle and 9925 pieces put together, my speculation is more akin to this, that the 10th toe is missing in the big picture!! You might say that is speculation, he might have a toe cut off or he may have 11 toes, but my hunches are SPOT ON because I understand the BIG PICTURE !! God is showing me one tow missing of a man because most men have 10 toes, He isn't showing me aberrations
Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
That which blocks you is the understanding that you have always believed the Seals were Judgments, but they aren't. They are Prophetic in nature, just as Joel 2:31 is. BOTH point to Trump #4, and both come to pass via Trump #4.
Nowhere does the bible say the first half of the 70th week is Wrath.
You are not really being serious here. There are things God 1.) Will not give out the info on 2.) Men couldn't understand it anyway so God gives us NUMBERS that stand in. For instance Moses would not have understood what 13.7 billion years even means, so God gave him 6 YOWMES or Time Periods that covered 13.7 billion years via the creation. The Two-witnesses are two men who already have glorious bodies. There is really ZERO REASON they have to die save one thing, the only reason they die is to illuminate the TWO TIMELINES via our juxtaposing their 1260 day timeline against the Beasts 1260 day timeline. Thus if we know the Two-witnesses DIE at the 2nd Woe and the Beast only dies at the 7th Vial, then we know the Two-witnesses 1260 day timelines has to start BEFORE the Beasts 1260 day timeline, thus the 1335 starts 75 days before the 1260, thus the 1335 BLESSING is the Two-witnesses.
We can tell by the CONTEXT when God is using using numbers in certain ways and when He is not. By the way, the old Hebrew language only had 4000 some odd words and no vowels, whereas modern day English has 500k words, of course God used numbers as stand ins.
I don't speculate, just because you can't grasp it yet doesn't mean its speculation.
When you get to heaven and see I was right you will be like DUH I should have listened.
This has zero to do with a minor division, this 7th Seal SKIPS a whole chapter and is then seen over in Rev. 8 with the Trumpet Judgments Arrival. We have the 144,000 IN BETWEEN in Rev. 7. So, even though there were no chapter and verses, common sense tells us this was placed by God over in the 7 Trumps for a reason, the 7th Seal opens the Judgment Scroll. If people only used common sense they could understand the seals fairly easy A king(s) usually sent a message with three signet seals to make sure his correspondence was not spied out, if one seal had been broken his message was still safe, but when all three came off only then could his message be read, so the scroll is SEALED by Jesus/God (7 meaning Divine Completion) thus no one can open these Judgments up until God says its time. In Rev. 5 no one was found worthy to open the book of Judgments, but Jesus was Worthy, the Slain Lamb of God. The Seals only BIND the Judgments. I am correct, regardless of your past understandings, they will not hold up on this.
You are WRONG, if you can't grasp it that's on you. When you get to heaven you will then understand it, I understand it now because I have been called unto this. And I don't "SPECULATE" I have the holy spirit and even when I did not get these things for 30 years I did not offer SPECULATON as facts, those are your words, not mine and not God's. I know when I know that I know, ever if you do not know brother. Men's traditions have you blocked, that was the Pharisees problems.
And Jesus was showing John THE FUTURE EVENTS......thus what was TO COME.
I have a 10,000 piece puzzle and 9925 pieces put together, my speculation is more akin to this, that the 10th toe is missing in the big picture!! You might say that is speculation, he might have a toe cut off or he may have 11 toes, but my hunches are SPOT ON because I understand the BIG PICTURE !! God is showing me one tow missing of a man because most men have 10 toes, He isn't showing me aberrations
Yes sir, the Beast DIES after 42 months (Vial 7 in Rev. 16:19) so he has to come to power on day 1260 out of 2520 as THE BEAST. He only has 42 months to rule. So, he comes to power in the Middle of the week, as Daniel chapter 9 tells us.
Yes, because we know exactly how long he rules and he DIES at the Second Coming which ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS, so his 1260 day rule can only start in the middle of the week. Thus if all of the Seals are just Jesus PROPHESYING what is soon to come (it is) then each event will be 42 months because he rules for 42 months. If you were to become President in 2024 ad I knew the future I could point to your four year presidency and say THIS, THIS, THIS & THIS is going to happen in his 4 year Presidency. That is what Jesus is doing as he simply opens up a Sealed Judgment Book.
Says the bible, says the holy Spirit. BOTH Joel 2:31 and te 6th Seal Prophecy by Jesus bring Darkness right, where do we see THE DARKNESS? In Trump #4 !! After the 7th Seal is loosed ACTIONS HIT THE EARTH.
Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
That which blocks you is the understanding that you have always believed the Seals were Judgments, but they aren't. They are Prophetic in nature, just as Joel 2:31 is. BOTH point to Trump #4, and both come to pass via Trump #4.
Nowhere does the bible say the first half of the 70th week is Wrath.
No, in the first four John is told tom "COME AND SEE" the future, I agree it is the FUTURE but its not happening 1260 days into the 70th week but between the 1290 where the Jews flee Judea and the 1260 where they are Conquered by the Beast. The Future event we are seeing is Jesus taking off the Seals which will finally bring JUDGMENT(S) to earth, and during this unsealing Jesus is showing John FURTHER FUTURE EVENTS, its God who gave this to John, of course its majestic and a complex riddle by nature.
You are not really being serious here. There are things God 1.) Will not give out the info on 2.) Men couldn't understand it anyway so God gives us NUMBERS that stand in. For instance Moses would not have understood what 13.7 billion years even means, so God gave him 6 YOWMES or Time Periods that covered 13.7 billion years via the creation. The Two-witnesses are two men who already have glorious bodies. There is really ZERO REASON they have to die save one thing, the only reason they die is to illuminate the TWO TIMELINES via our juxtaposing their 1260 day timeline against the Beasts 1260 day timeline. Thus if we know the Two-witnesses DIE at the 2nd Woe and the Beast only dies at the 7th Vial, then we know the Two-witnesses 1260 day timelines has to start BEFORE the Beasts 1260 day timeline, thus the 1335 starts 75 days before the 1260, thus the 1335 BLESSING is the Two-witnesses.
We can tell by the CONTEXT when God is using using numbers in certain ways and when He is not. By the way, the old Hebrew language only had 4000 some odd words and no vowels, whereas modern day English has 500k words, of course God used numbers as stand ins.
The Pre Trib Raptured Church is ALL of that crowd, that's the point NO ONE gets raptured after the 70th week starts.
I don't speculate, just because you can't grasp it yet doesn't mean its speculation.
Go reread it's Darkness and Fire comes from an Asteroid.....its common sense. We understand the DOTL in Rev. comes from an Asteroid, this we can back track the Joel 2:31 understandings.
More inability to answer with intelligent replies or rebuts.
Its a SEALED JUDGMENT BOOK MAN !!
When you get to heaven and see I was right you will be like DUH I should have listened.
Sounds more like a lazy reply to me brother.
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Ronald D Milam
Well-Known Member
Because I do know, there is NO WRATH until the Midway point of the 70th week.
FACTS.............
Is THE WOMAN in Rev. 12 a Woman or Israel? I just destroyed that thesis brother, come on, that was TOO EASY. The book of Revelation is one giant CODE BOOK that can be decoded with the Old Testament.
You being facetious is just you being in the dark. Its sad we have men who don't know but when told only fall back on things they learned not from God but passed down via men's traditions, then when they hear the truth it goes right over their heads.
Yes, I am way over your head it seems, except in my replies, at least I try to give a real reply, if you are getting destroyed, it seems you get testy. It may not be your calling, why sweat it?
I have done so many studies I would put you to shame sir, I understand what the numbers mean YOU DON'T, that is on you its your duty as called by God to show yourself worthy by study.
I don't use Numerology nor anything of the devil it is NOT FUN to me, I use God's own codes you not understanding God uses numbers is on you brother, you limit yourself.
It doesn't matter where its at, but even there you are wrong, Jesus calls us home from upon a CLOUD (Rev. 14:14) and Paul said we meet him in the CLOUDS so he blows the Trump in our atmosphere.
A little advice, if you get frustrated, just don't try and answer all of the replies at the same time.
God Bless
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No one says the virgins are saved believers. If they were, they would have oil. The saved have the oil of the spirit. The unsaved do not.
The saved do not merely say lord.
The prodigal son was still saved. Those who accuse others of 'wallowing' often pretend they are sinless, and therefore are hypocrites.
Except you made that up. Some may. You cannot say all will. That is pure opinion.
Petra is NOT why Jews are protected actually. It is likely one place where the protected will go.
In the end all Israel will be saved.
That is proof your little number scheme is baloney. The ones with no oil were not saved, so were not 'christendom'. Christendom seems to be an artificial word that embraces false churches along with actual believers.
I am very much against child sacrifice and ungodly unions. However, if some who were caught in that trap repent, of course they are saved.
Since you see that the oil is the spirit, then why would you be surprised that the foolish virgins so called had none?
No. Jesus saves. We are not fully transformed and have new bodies yet. But the saved are saved. Their eternal destiny is fixed, Certain.
If people sincerely call out to Jesus, they are saved. Period. No thinking needed.
We do not sorrow as other men and neither will the new believers. To die is gain. The weeping and gnashing is not for us at all. Ever.
That part is not speculation. Read again what I said was. Your 'cometdidit' thing. That is speculation.
If if if, woulda coulda shoulda. We do not know where the mountain that falls will hit, or if that is what kills all the people. Speculation.
There were plenty of Jewish martyrs. Obviously. Jesus mentioned that.
Maybe. Maybe the remnant also or especially means the remnant of Israel who actually believe. Who knows? It is not wise to build doctrines on maybes.
The few 144,000 are protected. Not all. Most Jews actually die.
Speculation. Satan goes after all who love Jesus.
Speculation. We do not know he will not make an appearance there.
Calling weak opinions facts changes nothing.
The Light
Well-Known Member
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