Is The Book Of Revelations Still Sealed?

[Ronald D Milam]

The Son of man, Jesus Christ is present to sow and reap the final harvest per Matthew 13:37-39

Which is the Wheat/Israel, not the Barley harvest which is the the Church........JUST IGNORE THE FACTOIDS I PRESENTED, because it destroys your wrong think brother. I find it laughable when Christians who are supposed to want to learn, ignore facts and play pretend so they can deny those facts are truths, its like trying to teach a kid 2 + 2 = 4 and he's sitting in the corner with a sack over his head saying, na na na na na na, its 5 its 5 its 5.

This is not about the church. This is not even about Israel. This is about Jesus here as Prince during the last half of the 70th week.

I hope you are not one of those who can't even discern whom the prince of Daniel 9:26-27 is, if so you are far down a rabbit hole.

The church is raptured at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. The church is already in Paradise while the 144k are being sealed on the earth.

You get everything wrong, this is not of God. Satan can be an angel of light, he never quits trying to whisper his untruths unto us.

You do not understand the timing of the Rapture nor the Second Coming, and the 6th Seal is BEFORE the Wrath of God falls, its simply Jesus opening up a scroll. None of the evidence supports you but you push on anyway. God does not take lightly those who steer others wrongly brother.

The 7th Trumpet is declaring an end to all this time of trouble the final harvest. The reason no one can know is because the last 3.5 years of the 70th week keeps getting shorter. Instead of a full 3.5 years it could be months in length. Because the final harvest of the church will stop at the Second Coming. The more time allotted the church the bigger the church harvest.

You do realize this is bonkers right? All because Jesus said if he didn't shorten the tribulation no life would survive, and you (and others) do not understand he was talking about the ORIGIAL PLAN of 7 Years/3.5 years (70th week is 7 years and Jacobs troubles is 3.5 years) which SHORTENS the Anti-Christs LIFESPAN by Jesus returning and killing him after his 1260 day rule. Why is this so difficult? Because you were not called unto Prophecy, but refuse to heed those who were.

After the Second Coming, Israel is called out of the Nations. The sheep awarded eternal life, the goats eternal damnation. But the goats can only be removed from the Lamb's book of life after the 7th Seal is opened. You can deny these points all you want. Only time will show who is wrong or who is right. This is not a debate. So claiming argument points is pointless.

Which makes ZERO SENSE if the Rapture happened at the Second Coming, they would already be separated. Thus Israel are the Wheat that needs to be CRUSHED by a Tribulum tool/machine (where the Greek word Tribulation comes from,) We are the Barley, and Barley doesn't need crushing.

Three Main Harvests Of Souls

God Bless

 

[Timtofly]

Which is the Wheat/Israel, not the Barley harvest which is the the Church........JUST IGNORE THE FACTOIDS I PRESENTED, because it destroys your wrong think brother. I find it laughable when Christians who are supposed to want to learn, ignore facts and play pretend so they can deny those facts are truths, its like trying to teach a kid 2 + 2 = 4 and he's sitting in the corner with a sack of his head saying, na na na na na na, its 5 its 5 its 5.

Church leaves at the 6th Seal, the actual Second Coming.

Jesus comes to earth, the Mt. of Olives to save Jerusalem, but then Israel gets their tribulation. The 6 Trumpets.

Israel is not the wheat of Matthew 13. Israel is the sheep and goats of Matthew 25.

The church leaves before the 7th Seal is opened.

I hope you are not one of those who can't even discern whom the prince of Daniel 9:26-27 is, if so you are far down a rabbit hole.

Daniel 9:25

"unto the Messiah the Prince"

Jesus as Prince, the one to come, will sit on His glorious throne at the Second Coming. Matthew 25. During the first 6 Trumpets is the judgment of the sheep and goats. Jesus cannot be sitting on His throne in Jerusalem as the Prince of Israel if He has not physically returned at the Second Coming.

You get everything wrong, this is not of God. Satan can be an angel of light, he never quits trying to whisper his untruths unto us.

It comes from God's Word. Not some private interpretation. Man's added interpretational eschatology has added way to much imagination way far above God's Word.

You do not understand the timing of the Rapture nor the Second Coming, and the 6th Seal is BEFORE the Wrath of God falls, its simply Jesus opening up a scroll. None of the evidence supports you but you push on anyway. God does not take lightly those who steer others wrongly brother.

The church is not here during the Trumpets nor Thunders. If the church is sealed, why hang around after all the Seals are opened? The Seals are not God's wrath. The Seals are preparing humanity for the worse of times. If people are not prepared now, they will not be prepared at the 6th Seal.

You are looking for an AC? Not going to happen for you. The AC comes after the 7th Trumpet sounds, if at all. The rapture is not the "saving moment" from Satan's nor an AC's "reign of terror". That is human imagination working over time. Neither the rapture nor a Second Coming is going to shorten any time given to Satan. The Atonement and God is the determination for the timing and duration of this tribulation.

Revelation 5:1

"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."

Your translation may read scroll. The word Bible comes from the Greek: biblion, book; biblios, scroll. You can see it as a scroll all you like. Since only the Lamb is worthy, because of the Atonement of the Cross, then that is the indication it is the book of Atonement. It contains the names of every human ever conceived. Why would this most important book ever, that only the Lamb can open just be what is already written in Revelation 8 and 9? That makes no sense.

Yu do realize this is bonkers right? Al because Jesus said if he didn't shorten the tribulation no life would survive, and you (and others) do not understand he was talking about the ORIGIAL PLAN of 7 Years/3.5 years (70th week is 7 years and Jacobs troubles is 3.5 years) which SHORTENS the Anti-Christs LIFESPAN b y him returning and killing him after his 1260 day rule. Why is this so difficult? Because you were not called unto Prophecy, but refuse to heed those who were.

The Trumpets happen before Satan's 42 months. But you place the 42 months prior to the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders.

You have no idea what I am called to do.

Which make ZERO SENSE if the Rapture happened at the Second Coming, they would already be separated. Thus Israel are the Wheat that needs to be CRUSHED by a Tribulum tool/machine (where the Greek word Tribulation comes from,) We are the Barley, and Barley doesn't need crushing.

Israel will have sheep who remain in the Lamb's book of life. The goats will be the first ones judged to eternal damnation. A verse about Israel being crushed as Wheat should help your point. Where did I claim the church goes through the tribulation? There are several verses where Israel is associated with a Trumpet and call to assembly.

I just read and declare the Word of God. I do not attempt to justify God's Word with man's imagination of what may happen. The whole point of the tribulation is the final harvest and the determination by God of who ends up where. The sheep remain in the Lamb's book of life. The goats are removed. Once the 7 seals are removed from the Lamb's book of life, then names can be removed. The Atonement is the bottom line, not some time allotted to Satan.

 

[The Light]

The Son of man, Jesus Christ is present to sow and reap the final harvest per Matthew 13:37-39

"He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."

The end of the world is really the end of the age, but Jesus answers this in Matthew 24

Matt 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Here is Jesus sending his angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This occurs AFTER the great tribulation. It also occurs at the 6th seal

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

The church is raptured at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal.

No, the Church is already in heaven BEFORE the seals are opened. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel. They have nothing to do with the Church. The 12 tribes across the earth are being regrafted onto the olive tree.

The church is already in Paradise while the 144k are being sealed on the earth.

While this is true, you are missing the point. Even though the 144,000 are sealed in Rev 7, that sealing event occurs earlier in the 1st 4 seals, like at seal 1. Secondly, those 144,000 are included in the great multitude. They do not go through the wrath of God even though it appears that they are sealed for this purpose.

To understand these things, you must understand that the wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and some of the dead are raised and rewards are given.

What you see in Rev 13 and 14 occurs in the seals. The 5th seal is the great tribulation. Here we can see the great tribulation in Rev 14.

Rev 14
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Here is the coming of Jesus in Rev 14.
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

This coming of Jesus in Rev 14 is the same coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, which is the same coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. The end of the age is over and the wrath of God begins.

After the Second Coming, Israel is called out of the Nations. The sheep awarded eternal life, the goats eternal damnation. But the goats can only be removed from the Lamb's book of life after the 7th Seal is opened. You can deny these points all you want. Only time will show who is wrong or who is right. This is not a debate. So claiming argument points is pointless.

The Church is in heaven BEFORE the seals are opened. See Rev 5. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel when God has turned His attention to Israel as the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. That rapture that you see at the 6th seal is actually the rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth. Only the nation of Israel and unbelievers go through the wrath of God.

There are two raptures. One like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. The Lord himself will come for the Church His bride. The second will be like the days of Lot where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. This is the gathering from heaven and earth. It is the 12 tribes that are gathered from the earth and the Church is gathered from heaven just prior to the wrath of God. He will send His angels to gather the elect.

Jacob had two brides. The fig tree has two harvests.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Church leaves at the 6th Seal, the actual Second Coming.

Like the kid with the sack over his head you can make ZERO ARGUMENT, so why repeat the same tired line you can't back up? In other words, this is your na na na na na na, and Jesus just shakes his head in astonishment at how wrong this is.

Jesus comes to earth, the Mt. of Olives to save Jerusalem, but then Israel gets their tribulation. The 6 Trumpets.

Jesu shows up at the 7th Vial

Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts(Jesus/Earthquake), and the cities of the nations fellJesus defeats the City/Nations...Cities used to be the Power as in Babylon/Rome) and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Do you not read the bible brother? Its right there !!

So, once Jesus defeats these cities/nations at the 7th Vial, God calls those He defeated Babylon the Great, and we can thus look back at the 6th Vial in order to see who it was, and thus we see that the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD gathered against God, thus Babylon = the Whole World. This is elementary stuff to me, but it seems complex to you guys because you do not follow the word in full, you get stuff passed down by men and go with it, like I used to. Learn from my mistakes, don't just keep plowing ahead in a swamp.

Israel is not the wheat of Matthew 13. Israel is the sheep and goats of Matthew 25.

Israel are the Wheat of the Wheat and the Tares who "GROW TOGETHER WITH THE TARES" until the end. The Barley does need to be crushed in order to be Harvested. Read the link, or do yiu just despise learning things that proves you wrong? I don't get it, we are supposed to thirst or knowledge and truth and many on these message boards dodge truth.

The church leaves before the 7th Seal is opened.

The Church is gone Pre 70th week, again, I prove this via the 7 Feasts which you just IGNORE, but God sees everything I see, you cant ignore things brother, then tech others wrongly, God will require an answer, you may get one of the smallest shacks in heaven, but you will make it in.

"unto the Messiah the Prince"

Jesus as Prince, the one to come, will sit on His glorious throne at the Second Coming. Matthew 25. During the first 6 Trumpets is the judgment of the sheep and goats. Jesus cannot be sitting on His throne in Jerusalem as the Prince of Israel if He has not physically returned at the Second Coming.

You just put forth an untruth and probably do not even understand what you did.

Dan. 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression(Israel has yet to Repent), and to make an end of sins(Willful sins only ends with Jesus' 1000 year reign), and to make reconciliation for iniquity(Israel has yet to Repent), and to bring in everlasting righteousness(With Jesus Reign), and to seal up the vision and prophecy(Has Prophecy all been COMPLETED? No) , and to anoint the most Holy (Has Jesus taken over as King of kings yet? No, of course not).

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince(This IS Jesus) shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off(Jesus dies after EXACTLY 69 Weeks, not after 69 1/2 weeks which is a joke because it ADDING to the bible), but not for himself:

{{There were no Chapters ad Verses, the translators have divided this in the WRONG PLACE}}

and the people(Romans/Europeans) of the prince(Anti-Christ SMALL p !! It is very, very OBVIOUS) that shall come(At the END...2000 years later) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;(In 70 AD) and the end thereof shall be with a flood(Roman Power/Armies), and unto the end of the war desolations are determined(Diaspora). 27 And he (AC) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week(70th week AC invites Israel and MANY other nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region into the E.U.): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease(He CAUSES the False Prophet/Jewish High Priest to STOP Jesus Worship AFTER the Two-Witnesses have gotten 3-5 million Jews to REPENT which is CALLED FOR in verse 24), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The problem is, guys not called unto prophecy still want to teach it !! You do not even grasp that when the Prince has a capital P its speaking about Jesus but when it has a small p is talking about the Anti-Christ to come.

It comes from God's Word. Not some private interpretation. Man's added interpretational eschatology has added way to much imagination way far above God's Word.

No it does not. You get everything wrong because it is not your calling sir.

The church is not here during the Trumpets nor Thunders. If the church is sealed, why hang around after all the Seals are opened? The Seals are not God's wrath. The Seals are preparing humanity for the worse of times. If people are not prepared now, they will not be prepared at the 6th Seal.

The Church is out of here Pre 70th week.

You are looking for an AC? Not going to happen for you. The AC comes after the 7th Trumpet sounds, if at all. The rapture is not the "saving moment" from Satan's nor an AC's "reign of terror". That is human imagination working over time. Neither the rapture nor a Second Coming is going to shorten any time given to Satan. The Atonement and God is the determination for the timing and duration of this tribulation.

The Anti-Christ comes at the 1st Trump which is God's Wrath, the Church is gone, I am LOOKING for no one, I am just teaching the facts so those here will know what to look for.

"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."

Your translation may read scroll. The word Bible comes from the Greek: biblion, book; biblios, scroll. You can see it as a scroll all you like. Since only the Lamb is worthy, because of the Atonement of the Cross, then that is the indication it is the book of Atonement. It contains the names of every human ever conceived. Why would this most important book ever, that only the Lamb can open just be what is already written in Revelation 8 and 9? That makes no sense.

It was a scroll, a scroll and a book is the same thing.....The Scroll is what is sealed, its a Judgment Scroll. Without Judgment there can be no separation.

The Trumpets happen before Satan's 42 months. But you place the 42 months prior to the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders.

You have no idea what I am called to do.

You are so far off on the TIMING Brother you confuse everyone else's understandings also. There is a 70th week which is THE END Jesus spoke of in Matt. 24, it comes after the Church is Raptured or the Time of the Gentiles is over.

For the first 3.5 years there will be not Wrath and no Anti-Christ ruling ad the Beast, he will just rule over the E.U. as the President AND enter into Agreements with Israel and THE MANY nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region. He is awaiting his orders, he hears Dark Sentences as Daniel 8:23-25 says, so he will not go forth conquering until everything falls into place. First, at the very start of the 70th week or just before God wipes out Russia, Iran and Turkeys Armies in the Gog and Magog wars. Then when the Asteroid strikes in Rev. 8, (God's Wrath) Satan sends him forth, knowing that 1/3 of the world is in chaos (think meddling USA is now contained AFTER the Rapture, the Libs are judged finally, the ones pushing homosexuality and Tans filth from DC and from Hollywood onto the whole world get their comeuppance). So, with 1/3 of the world burning and the USA now out of the way, and with much of the world preoccupied, this Anti-Christ seizes on this chance to go forth conquering, and he conquers Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region just like Daniel 11:40-43 says he will do, save for the Petra/Bozrah area of Edom, Ammon and Moab.

So, this man who is ONLY the E.U. Leaders/King at that time, goes firth conquering at the First Trump, and he then rules for 42 months, which just so happens to be how long God's Wrath also lasts, do you not understand that God Wrath only starts with the 1st Trump and lasts until the 7th Vial?

And yes I do, someone called unto Prophecy would nit get everything wrong brother.

 

[Dcopymope]

"Is The Book Of Revelations Still Sealed?"

No :)

 

[The Light]

The Temple is not the Wailing Wall, that is the Outside Court made for the Gentiles. So you not knowing facts leads you down rabbit holes.

You hinging all of your understanding on the fact that the Temple has not been completely destroyed, whilst it has, is simply incredulous. Have you seriously spent your life building your eschatological understandings around that misdiagnosed fact? Sorry, but I see that as mistake literally no one should make, there is no excuse for not knowing the Wailing Wall is a part of the Gentile Court, not the Temple., you just did not do any research brother.

Sorry brother. I base what I believe on the Word of God. Simply read what it says.

Luke 21
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

You completely ignore the Word of God. Hey Jesus, when will there not be one stone upon another and what sign will there be when these things come to pass?

Jesus answers their question. Does the sign of when these things come to pass happen in 70AD? NO! The sign of when these things will come to pass happens at the end of the age.

Yes, and that Rapture can not happen until after verse 14, Jesus says so, thus only verses 15-31 are a part of the 70th week via Matt 24.

Here is verse 14
Matt 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

You don't seem to understand that the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. I'm not sure why so many of you want to make the 70th week of Daniel about the Church.

Dan 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The Church is in heaven and we can see that in Rev 4 and 5. THEN the seals are opened. The Gospel being preached unto all nations will happen after the Church is gone.

You are very confused on THE TIMING, Jesus returns at the 7th Vial,

Yes, Jesus returns at the 7th vial. It's just another view of His return at the 7th trumpet.

The Seals DO NOTHING, they are prophetic in nature.

The first four seals are the BEGINNING OF SORROWS in Matt 24. The fifth seal is the great tribulation. The sixth seal is the coming of Jesus. If you don't understand that Jesus comes at the 6th seal, there is no way you can BEGIN to understand prophecy.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The Tribulation means Jacobs Troubles, so they flee Judea at the 1290, which gives them 30 days to make it to the Petra/Bozrah area where God will protect them, and yet you don't understand the 1260 days of TROUBLES/Tribulation ends with Jesus' Second Coming?

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION Jesus comes and that happens when the sun and moon are dark and the stars fall from heaven. That happens at the 6th seal. THAT IS THE SIGN OF HIS COMING.

The 7 Seals seal up God's Wrath in them, only when opened all the way (7th seal) does God's Wrath finally fall on mankind.

The tribulation is OVER before the wrath of God begins.

You are WRONG, the Church Age is not a part of the 70th week. Matthew 24:7-14 is the Church Age. The Gospel has to be preached unto ALL THE WORLD, and then the END (70th week) COMES. The Birth-pangs (Sorrows) BIRTH the 70th week.

No. The birth pangs are the beginning of sorrows. These are the 1st four seals.
Hey Jesus when will these thing be and what will be the sign of thy coming and the end of the age.
Does Jesus answer the question or does He give the history of mankind from that point? He answers the question.

ALL of the Seals are Prophetic in Nature, we are shown what the 70th week Martyrs will be killed during the 70th week tribulation period. The Martyrs will mostly be Gentile Christians who come unto God after the Rapture (the Jews will be protected).

What John tells us about end times in the seals matches up perfectly with what Jesus tells us about end times in Matt 24. There is no 70AD being discussed in Matthew 24 and there is no Church age being discussed in Matthew 24. It's all about end times. You can look in Luke 21 and find 70AD but you won't find it in Matthew 24.

The Seals foretells their coming cries for vengeance after they have been killed, but this is BEFORE the Anti-Christ goes forth conquering.

THE Antichrist does not go forth conquering and to conquer. AN Antichrist goes forth. The rider on the white horse is not THE Antichrist, he is an Antichrist. The rider on the white horse is the 7th king. There are 8 kings and THE Antichrist is the eighth king.

You are just as confused now as you were a year or two ago on the Worthy site asper timing. The 6th Seal DOES NOTHING, it is Prophetic, we see Jesus returning at the 7th Vial, can you not read? Matt. 24:31 is the Church returning with Jesus and Jesus gathering up his 70th week Elect.

Rev Man, the sixth seal is when Matthew 24:31 happens. Both Matthew 24 and Rev 6 GIVE US THE SIGN OF HIS COMING. The sun and moon go dark and the stars fall from heaven. How is it possible that you cannot see this? Until you understand this, there is no way you can possibly understand Revelation.

You do not understand end time prophecy's TIMING. Was it over 2500 years ago when Joel prophesied the same thing as Jesus does just before the Wrath Falls? Nuff said.

You pass down what men tell you, not what God is trying to tell you, else you wouldn't have your TIMING so off.

Again, until you understand the SIGN OF HIS COMING that is shown in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal, AND JESUS RETURNS, you cannot possibly understand Revelation. Can you tell me what men have passed down what I believe? I believe there are two raptures, one in Rev 4 for the Church and one in Rev 6 at the gathering from heaven and earth just prior to the wrath of God. What men have taught me this? But there are a whole lot of teachers teaching you that the tribulation and the wrath of God are the same thing. They are not. The tribulation is OVER BEFORE the wrath of God begins.

 

[ScottA]

The confusion or debate here is the result of not understanding God's [actual] timing.

The problem is--with God there is no timing: "I am" means things just "are."

In the world, Paul explained, saying the timing as we experience it, is "each in his own order." That is the true and correct answer for all of this.

Time is an illusion.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Sorry brother. I base what I believe on the Word of God. Simply read what it says.

Which means you re WRONG, you do not even know the difference between the actual Temple and the part that is still standing which is the Gentile Court. That is on you sir.

The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.......Period, end of story.

Jesus answers their question. Does the sign of when these things come to pass happen in 70AD? NO! The sign of when these things will come to pass happens at the end of the age.

Jesus answered ALL of the questions, the one about when will these things be (Temples Destruction) AND the other two questions, quit pretending it was all the same question.

Here is verse 14
Matt 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

You don't seem to understand that the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. I'm not sure why so many of you want to make the 70th week of Daniel about the Church.

Dan 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The Church is in heaven and we can see that in Rev 4 and 5. THEN the seals are opened. The Gospel being preached unto all nations will happen after the Church is gone.

You do not read very well, I proffered this same point on Worthy, either you can't comprehend or just do not read the replies well enough. No one can get this many things wrong of they read, I am PRE TRIB. I fully understand the difference between the time of the Gentile (Church Age) and the 70th week which is about Jacobs Troubles. You see, I read well, because I remember from long ago you are Pre Trib AND that is about all you are right on as per end time Eschatology.

So, NOWHERE, EVER did I say nr infer the 70th week was about the Church. the Remnant Church is here, meaning Gentiles who get saved after the Rapture. Rev. 12:17 is the Remnant Church, it can't be the Remnant Jews, they are PROTECTED so Satan cant get at them but gets at the Remnant, AND the Remnant have the TESTIMONY of Jesus and the 2/3 who do not repent do not have the TESTOMONY of Jesus, so the Remnant of Rev. 12 ONLY FITS the Remnant Church on earth, but THE Church is on Heaven. You confuse your own self. Everyone except the WAY OUT THEERE TYPES understand the 70th week is about Israel.

Yes, Jesus returns at the 7th vial. It's just another view of His return at the 7th trumpet.

Not really, the 7th Trump is only told IN GENERAL in Rev. 11, the 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe (as Rev. 8:13 says) and the 3rd Woe is the 7 Vials, so the 7th Vial is really brought firth by the 7th Trump, but is only a part of the 3rd Woe.

The first four seals are the BEGINNING OF SORROWS in Matt 24.

WRONG !! The Sorrows birth THE BABY, they do not continue after the birth. The Sorrows are thus a part of the Church Age that brings forth the 70th week, they ARE NOT a part of the 70th week. They all point to the Rapture which DELIVERS the 70th week unto the world. Verse 14 is the Rapture of the Church, the 70th week is then seen in verses 15-31. It doesn't matter what you believed long ago, nor what I may have believed, facts are facts sir. Get over old untruths.

The fifth seal is the great tribulation. The sixth seal is the coming of Jesus. If you don't understand that Jesus comes at the 6th seal, there is no way you can BEGIN to understand prophecy.

The 5th Seal is Jesus prophesying about the coming 42 months of Martyrs to the Gentile Remnant Church, the Jews who repent are PROTECTED !! The 6th Seal is Jesus Prophesying about Gd's COMING 42 Months of Wrath which starts with Trump #1 and lasts through all 7 Trumps, the last Trump is the 3rd Woe which has 7 Vials.

Jesus comes at te7th Vial, which you just PRETENDED to sort of agree with above says it was the 7th Trump. You are very confused, and always have been. The Seals have the Judgments contain within them. If I remember you were so confused I finally just git tired of chatting with you because not only were you wrong on everything but the Pre Trib Rapture, you were so intransigent on everything it was like chatting with a wall, a wall who was in error on everything so I just stopped replying unto you at all. If you think Jesus can come at the 6th Seal and the 7th Trump you are way down a rabbit hole brother.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Now TRY ISTENING for a change. Joel 2:31 was a Prophecy of the coming Day of the Lord 2500 plus years ago right? So, why do you not understand that Jesus can also Prophesy about the coming Day of the Lord a mere few weeks ahead of when this same DOTL event is going to happen? He does so in Heaven JUST BEFORE the coming DOTL arrives. So, Seal #6 just like the First 5 Seals are PROPHETIC in nature, because the Anti-Christ is waiting on te DOTL to fall and thus wipe out 1/3 of the world for him, thus Jesus Prophesies BOTH THINGS, the Wrath of God falling in Seal #6 AND the Anti-Christs actions over 42 months, his 1.) Conquering 2.) Wars for 42 months 3. Famine 4.) Deaths/Sickness (Four Horses) AND about his coming 42 months of Martyrs via the 5th Seal.

Thus the 7th Seal is over in Rev 8 because the Judgments can ONLY COME once the 7 Seals are opened, and in between we get Israel who repents (the 144,000 are a CODE for All Israel who repents) and then Flees Judea jus before Gd's Wrath falls AND the Anti-Christ goes forth conquering. This is why the Angel is told to HOLD BACK the Winds (Judgments) until the 144,000 or the Fleeing Jews who repented Jews (they are SEALED by the Holy Spirit only when they repent) make it to the safe zone of Petra/Bozrah.

THEN After 42 Months of TRIBULATION !! Jesus returns IMMEDIATELY AFTER TE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS. You just can't put t together brother. Men know nothing, so if we follow other men we know the same thing they know, only when understanding tis do we start hearing God's true whispers of the spirit. So, yes IMMEDIATELY after the 42 months which ends at the 7th Vial not the 6th Seal which is BEFORE God's Wrath even starts, Jesus will indeed show up.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION Jesus comes and that happens when the sun and moon are dark and the stars fall from heaven. That happens at the 6th seal.

You ca say that a million times and you will be wrong a million times. Its not even plausible.

The tribulation is OVER before the wrath of God begins.

SMH

No. The birth pangs are the beginning of sorrows. These are the 1st four seals.
Hey Jesus when will these thing be and what will be the sign of thy coming and the end of the age.
Does Jesus answer the question or does He give the history of mankind from that point? He answers the question.

NO.........Its very frustrating when people get absolutely nothing correct.

What John tells us about end times in the seals matches up perfectly with what Jesus tells us about end times in Matt 24. There is no 70AD being discussed in Matthew 24 and there is no Church age being discussed in Matthew 24. It's all about end times. You can look in Luke 21 and find 70AD but you won't find in Matthew 24.

When will THESE THINGS HAPPEN (Temples Destruction). Literally no one agrees with you.

THE Antichrist does not go forth conquering and to conquer. AN Antichrist goes forth. The rider on the white horse is not THE Antichrist, he is an Antichrist. The rider on the white horse is the 7th king. There are 8 kings and the Antichrist is the eighth king.

SMILE.................YIKES.................This will not last much longer, I do not keep debating with someone who is 99 percent wrong on everything. Its very tiring, and sad I might add.

Rev Man, the sixth seal is when Matthew 24:31 happens. Both Matthew 24 and Rev 6 GIVE US THE SIGN OF HIS COMING. The sun and moon go dark and the stars fall from heaven. How is it possible that you cannot see this? Until you understand this, there is no way you can possibly understand Revelation.

NO.................Jesus returns with the Church at the 7th Vial.

Again, until you understand the SIGN OF HIS COMING that is shown in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal, you cannot possibly understand Revelation. Can you tell me what men have passed down what I believe? I believe there are two raptures, one in Rev 4 for the Church and one in Rev 6 at the gathering from heaven and earth just prior to the wrath of God.

Of course I do.........He comes at the 7th Vial with the Church.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

The confusion or debate here is the result of not understanding God's [actual] timing.

The problem is--with God there is no timing: "I am" means things just "are."

In the world, Paul explained, saying the timing as we experience it, is "each in his own order." That is the true and correct answer for all of this.

Time is an illusion.

We live in a Universe God created FOR US.......And we thus have time in this universe. The Universe itself is a time continuum. God did this on purpose.

 

[ScottA]

We live in a Universe God created FOR US.......And we thus have time in this universe. The Universe itself is a time continuum. God did this on purpose.

No, that is how those of the world think. But for God's people, the times are appointed, and limited.

"Then comes the end."

 

[William00]

Even without reading the Bible, but looking at the events in the world, we are heading towards a big disaster:

1) War with Russia and/or China

2) economic collapse

3) famine

4) more plandemic

I personally don't think there is going to be a Rapture. We can only pray.

 

[ewq1938]

Even without reading the Bible, but looking at the events in the world, we are heading towards a big disaster:

1) War with Russia and/or China

2) economic collapse

3) famine

4) more plandemic

I personally don't think there is going to be a Rapture. We can only pray.

If there is no rapture then Paul and Christ were false prophets because they both spoke of the rapture.

 

[William00]

If there is no rapture then Paul and Christ were false prophets because they both spoke of the rapture.

I read the book of Revelation. I just don't see anywhere that there is a Rapture.

 

[ewq1938]

I read the book of Revelation. I just don't see anywhere that there is a Rapture.

"harpazo" is the Greek word for "rapture".

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up HARPAZO/RAPTURE together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When this verse was translated into Latin from Greek, the Greek word "harpazo" was replaced by the the Latin word "rapio" meaning "to catch up" or "take away" (the Latin noun "raptus" "a carrying off"). The Latin word “rapiemur” is the word St. Jerome used for “caught up” when he translated 1 Thess 4:17 in the Latin Vulgate Bible. So while the English word RAPTURE is not in scripture the Greek word HARPAZO is in scripture and it is the origin of the word rapture. So, yes, a rapture is very biblical. A pre-trib rapture is not biblical because Paul places the rapture after the tribulation and second coming and after the resurrection of the dead. The rapture then will come after the great tribulation has ended known as "post-trib".

 

[William00]

"harpazo" is the Greek word for "rapture".

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up HARPAZO/RAPTURE together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Thanks for the verse. It seems that no one can escape the Tribulation. That's what I thought too. This Rapture is after Satan is defeated. The 144,000 chosen ones will ascend to Heaven.

 

[Dcopymope]

Thanks for the verse. It seems that no one can escape the Tribulation. That's what I thought too. This Rapture is after Satan is defeated. The 144,000 chosen ones will ascend to Heaven.

SIGH...this is why I don't spend much of my time in this zoo of a website.

 

[ewq1938]

This Rapture is after Satan is defeated.

Almost, the rapture happens when the 7th trump sounds...satan will be locked in a pit later that day and will be destroyed for good after the thousand years is over.

 

[Dcopymope]

Man, that 7th trumpet spiel is a HUGE stumbling block on coming to an understanding of how end times events actually occurs. :