The Biblical Basis for Catholic Distinctives

[Marymog]

What a truly wonderful question . You just asked a good question .
So allow me to answer . ITS the group that Holds to what scripture says that is right . Not the group that twists it or omits it .
So allow me to do what i love to do . LET us get back into the bible and simply learn the doctrine for ourselves .
OH yes , stop trusting in men and learn the bible for yourself . Exactly . Thanks for the question . IT really was a good question to ask .

Who decides which group "Holds to what scripture says that is right" and which group "twists it or omits it"?

Your group is made up of "men" (humans)! Isn't your group "trusting men" not to twist Scripture?

Can you not see how your theory is not workable?

 

[Marymog]

Men led you astray , not by saying Mary is exalted , but by teaching you all TO PRAY TO HER .

No, God and Jesus did not lead me astray when THEY exalted Mary.

What do YOU mean by pray to Mary? Do you think that we think that Mary grants our prayers?

Curious Mary

 

[amigo de christo]

Who decides which group "Holds to what scripture says that is right" and which group "twists it or omits it"?

Your group is made up of "men" (humans)! Isn't your group "trusting men" not to twist Scripture?

Can you not see how your theory is not workable?

Rather odd its the mindset paul had and did peter .
WE can know folks by their fruits and we can know when doctrine is false or true .
We can and should expose that which is false .
Expose it i will and point to JESUS i will and to the holy scriptures . And contiual reminder to learn that doctrine .
For many men through all ages have decieved . but the lambs heard them not , nor followed them .
Lambs follow Christ and lambs love TRUTH . AND GOD has shed this love upon the heart of a lamb .
It wont eat the mixture of men , but only from the pure green grass of the LORD .
AKA , its feasts on pure biblical doctrine . Not on half truths and mixtures of men gone wrong .
But its not too late . TODAY IF ye shall hear His voice harden not your hearts .
RETURN to bible . Learn it for yourself . Hurry and dont look back . My prayers are for you
and i speak good things unto you . As i desire none to perish . Feast on that bible
and become wise unto salvation through faith in Christ . But continue to feast from the tables of men gone wrong
and that end is no good at all . And out of great love i remind you and all .

 

[amigo de christo]

No, God and Jesus did not lead me astray when THEY exalted Mary.

What do YOU mean by pray to Mary? Do you think that we think that Mary grants our prayers?

Curious Mary

No , i dont believe you all think mary grants your prayers . I think you think that by praying to her
she helps make intercession on behalf of your prayers . WHICH my friend is just as evil and vile .
PRAY TO GOD in JESUS name . PRAY to the CREATOR and not the created .

 

[amigo de christo]

ON the day of judgment many are gonna be shocked to find out that the apostels , even mary
and all are gonna judge that church as well . Peter would not be in support of prayer to him , to saints or to mary .
Just as mary would not be either .
My advice is , WE GOT ALL WE NEED IN CHRIST . SIMPLY PRAY TO GOD IN HIS NAME .
Out of all the early church letters , not only did they ever once encourage prayer to angels and etc
THEY warned against it . Pual , LET no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary and humility of worshipping angels .
Many do as they do cause men have led them to do as they do .
But i say learn those bibles for yourselves . And be on gaurd , for many decievers do abound and have decieved many
and are deceiving many . Test all things .

 

[amigo de christo]

No, God and Jesus did not lead me astray when THEY exalted Mary.

What do YOU mean by pray to Mary? Do you think that we think that Mary grants our prayers?

Curious Mary

We call her blessed . We dont pray to her .

 

[Marymog]

No , i dont believe you all think mary grants your prayers . I think you think that by praying to her
she helps make intercession on behalf of your prayers . WHICH my friend is just as evil and vile .
PRAY TO GOD in JESUS name . PRAY to the CREATOR and not the created .

Soooo I think what you are saying is that Mary can't hear our requests (prayers) to her therefor she cannot provide "intercession on (our) behalf"? Only souls that are in a living human body can pray for another soul that is also in a living human body?

 

[Marymog]

We call her blessed . We dont pray to her .

Who is "we"?

 

[amigo de christo]

Soooo I think what you are saying is that Mary can't hear our requests (prayers) to her therefor she cannot provide "intercession on (our) behalf"? Only souls that are in a living human body can pray for another soul that is also in a living human body?

NO . i am simply saying PRAY to GOD . PRAY to the CREATOR , not to the created .
marymog , you are just dug into the doctrine of men like a seed tick on an red bone hound .
But i did at least try and help you . You are really glued into the teachings of men .
I shall pray for you . Learn the bible well and you will indeed grow wise unto salvation through faith in Christ .
ITS all i can do for you . its evident , like alexander the copper smith greatly resisted the words of paul
so too do you resist the simple truth i am bringing to help you .

 

[Marymog]

Rather odd its the mindset paul had and did peter .
WE can know folks by their fruits and we can know when doctrine is false or true .
We can and should expose that which is false .....

Who is the "WE" that decides what a false or true doctrine is? Who is the "We" that "CAN...expose that which is false"? You and your sister?

 

[Marymog]

NO . i am simply saying PRAY to GOD . PRAY to the CREATOR , not to the created .
marymog , you are just dug into the doctrine of men like a seed tick on an red bone hound .
But i did at least try and help you . You are really glued into the teachings of men .
I shall pray for you . Learn the bible well and you will indeed grow wise unto salvation through faith in Christ .
ITS all i can do for you . its evident , like alexander the copper smith greatly resisted the words of paul
so too do you resist the simple truth i am bringing to help you .

You just gave me YOUR man made doctrine on Mary and praying to her but you then go on to chastise and belittle my manmade doctrine? Very confusing (pot calling the kettle black?)...but I digress!!

Thank you for your prayers......Mary

 

[Taken]

That people in ithe Bible founs "FAVOR" with God id not the issue. Mary didn't simply find "FAVOR" - she was goiven the title of "Kecharitomene in Luke 1:28. As I educated you in my last post - this word us defoined as "one having been completely, perfectly, and enduringly endowed with grace". It is a perfect passive participle, indicating a completed action with a PERMANENT result.

NOBODY in ALL of Scripture (OT or NT) wasa given this title other than Mary.

Yawn....
Kecharitomene is a “catholic nonce”;
a catholic invented WORD, to identify a catholic invented TITLE, with a catholic invented MEANING.

I have ZERO need or interest in “catholic fantasy”!

Every earthly favorable servant of God, is blessed with Gods GRACE to perform a particular Service for God.....from Prophesying, Preaching, Teaching, Ruling, Wars....and even being a Jewish female with a virgin womb, betrothed to a man, of the House of David.....and those particular servants, receive their blessing from God FOR completing their Service for God.

You appear to believe, by your own words you write; That Your Service for God, is teaching the ONLY church is the “catholic church” and your task of service is to tongue lash everyone who does not stand in agreement “with YOU”.

I have a teacher, called by the Name Jesus, who IS the Way, Truth & Life.
Not once has He directed me to follow YOU or consider YOUR fantasy catholic teaching.

Why Mary was favored, is expressly revealed in Scripture.
What particular Service she was chosen to Serve God is expressly revealed in Scripture.
Her Agreement to Serve God in a particular Service is expressly revealed in Scripture.
When her Service began and ended is expressly revealed in Scripture.
What blessing she received for her completed Service is expressly revealed in Scripture.
When she received the Holy Spirit of God is expressly revealed in Scripture.

Nothing whatsoever in Scripture gave Mary special Titles. (Is Kecharitomene, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven, Our Lady, and all the other fantasy catholic titles.)

“Your” teaching is foiled, yet again.

 

[amigo de christo]

Who is the "WE" that decides what a false or true doctrine is? Who is the "We" that "CAN...expose that which is false"? You and your sister?

Any true seasoned lamb can . We dont have to have popes and others , who mislead
guide us into the TRUTH . Any true lamb will grow in the truth and no longer
be able to be tossed to and fro by the doctrines of dangerous men . By which many , even within most all of christendom
are being decieved . I must say i will never sit at that table of compromise for unity .
Truth is i had rather be on the run , or thrown in prison , even beaten and killed , long before
i sit at a table of the harlot . My advice is let all flee that table .
And let all grow in the wisdom of GOD given in JESUS CHRIST .
Feel no sorrow for me . I know times will get worse for ones like me and that the world
will unify under a mindset of finding common ground and that ones like me will not be loved by those
times will get worse . But my end is good . I have CHRIST and as such i will not sit at this table of unity we are one
and be led astray .

 

[Taken]

Wrong?
The Church IS -
- ONE (John 17:20-23)
- HOLY (Eph. 5:25)
- CATHOLIC (Acts 9:31)

LOL

-

APOSTOLIC (Acts 1:12-26)

Soooooo, instead of "LOL"-ing - maybe you should spend some time studying Scripture . . .

No - it's not one of your tens of thousands of MAN-MADE and perpetually-splintering factions.
It is the Original Tree from which ALL disjointed Protestant sects have splintered . . .

Don’t require your reputation....Already concluded, tens of thousands are “Christ’s Church”, and the “catholic church” is excluded from that accounting.

 

[Taken]

God exalted Mary. Jesus exalted Mary.

You appear confused.

Why don't you?

I have not been CALLED to exalt earthly persons.
My CALLING is to exalt the Lord God Almighty.

THAT’S WHY!

 

[Marymog]

Any true seasoned lamb can . We dont have to have popes and others , who mislead
guide us into the TRUTH . Any true lamb will grow in the truth and no longer
be able to be tossed to and fro by the doctrines of dangerous men . By which many , even within most all of christendom
are being decieved . I must say i will never sit at that table of compromise for unity .
Truth is i had rather be on the run , or thrown in prison , even beaten and killed , long before
i sit at a table of the harlot . My advice is let all flee that table .
And let all grow in the wisdom of GOD given in JESUS CHRIST .
Feel no sorrow for me . I know times will get worse for ones like me and that the world
will unify under a mindset of finding common ground and that ones like me will not be loved by those
times will get worse . But my end is good . I have CHRIST and as such i will not sit at this table of unity we are one
and be led astray .

LOL...ok! So the "we" are the mysterious group of "Any true seasoned lamb"! The reason I say mysterious is because you can't point them out.... but they are out there...somewhere? Fascinating.....Are you, your sister and the members of your group the 'true seasoned lambs'?


You said you will never compromise for unity. Does that mean you will never give up what you believe to be the Truth because you are always right? How does that work out when you meet for bible study with your sister and the others of your group and they come up with a different interpretation of Scripture than you do? Do you walk away and tell them they are wrong? No compromising with them?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

You appear confused.



I have not been CALLED to exalt earthly persons.
My CALLING is to exalt the Lord God Almighty.

THAT’S WHY!

Jokes of the day for Thursday, 24 February 2022 | Jokes of the day

 

[ScottA]

You wrote an entire book.....thousands of words I presume....about Einstein but you can't answer a simple question?

Let's try again: When 65 Protestants agrees with The Church they are "collaborators"! What are they if they agree with YOU?

What is this...elementary school English class?

col·lab·o·ra·tor
/kəˈlabəˌrādər/
Learn to pronounce

noun
plural noun: collaborators

1. 1.
   a person who works jointly on an activity or project; an associate.

Let me rephrase that... We both know the definition of the word "collaborators"...so what's your real question? Or better yet...what are you trying to say? And when a person really has something to say, but asks a question instead, what is that called? It's called an "ulterior motive."

Now that we understand one another-- spit it out, lets have it. What's your point?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I notice that you don't give scriptural references for the Old Testament. Where do you find the "general priesthood" of OT believers?

And then you come up with "the ministerial priests" from this: "Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with olive oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven." This refers to the elders of the church, not "ministerial priests" (a manufactured term). You are correct about the priesthood of all Christians; there is no separate class of priests as there is in the OT and the Catholic church.

I am a firm believer in what the Bible -- the Word of God -- clearly says. Everything else is an invention of church elders trying to justify their position. In the New Testament, there is 1) no Pope, 2) no Catholic church, 3) no bishops or cardinals, 4) no ornate cathedrals, 5) no "fathers" (Matthew 23:9, "And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.", 6) no confession of sins resulting in absolution from priests, 7) no exclusion of any who want to take the bread and wine, and many more, 8) no inquisitions, and many more.

Sola scriptura.

If you are a "firm believer" in the Word of God - I suggest you STUDY it.

As to the General Priesthood of the Jewish people -
Exodus 19:6
and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.”

Isaiah 61:6
but you shall be called the priests of the LORD; they shall speak of you as the ministers of our God; you shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their glory you shall boast.

And James isn't the ONLY one who writes about the Ministerial Priesthood in the NT.
Paul expounds on this as well. In Rom 15:15-16, Paul uses the word “Hierurgeo”, which is the verb form of the Greek “Hierus” (priests) – the SAME word used for “priest” throughout the NT.

In the following passage - Paul refers to “Priestly service”
Rom. 15:15-16:
But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the PRIESTLY service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Your KJV translates this word as “Minister” because of an obvious anti-Priest Protestant agenda.

What the following verses are describing is the definition of Priestly duties:
(John 20:21-23, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, 2 Cor. 2:10, James 5:14-15)

in the Epistle of Jude, we read the warning about those who would usurp Church Authority by assuming the ministerial priesthood without the Church’s consent (Jude 1:11). In this passage he compares them to the rebellion of Korah and their subsequent punishment (Numbers 16:1-35; 31:16).

So, next time - bring something more than just your anti=Catholic bias to the conversation . . .

As to the rest of your ignorant nonsense –

1) no Pope
MY Bible shows there IS - Matt. 16:12-15, John 21:15-19

2) no Catholic church
Not according to MY Bible – Acts 9:31 (Greek, ekklesia kata-holos), 1 Tim. 2:1-7

3) no bishops
WRONG again – Acts 1:20 (Episkopay/Bishoipric)

4) no ornate cathedrals
Ummmmmm, there were NO Church buildings, PERIOD, Einstein/. Christianity was illegal.

5) no "fathers" (Matthew 23:9, "And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven."
Wanna bet??
- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
- St. Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- St. Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
- For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

6) no confession of sins resulting in absolution from priests
WRONG again . . .
Paul makes no small case for this ministry of reconciliation (Confession) in 2 Cor. 5:18-20:
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

In 2 Cor. 2:10, he states, “Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the PRESENCE of Christ”

The Greek word used here for “Presence” is “Prosopone”, which means “Person”.
As Priests -= they were forgiving the sins of others in the PERSON of Christ. In Latin, this is called, In Persona Cristi.

7) no exclusion of any who want to take the bread and wine, and many more
That’s because true Christians in the 1st century would not have DREAMED of rejecting the Eucharist – 1 Cor. 10:14-17

8) no inquisitions
Ummmmmm, there was no “Reformation”, either, Einstein. Those things came LATER.

Do your HOMEWORK . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yawn....
Kecharitomene is a “catholic nonce”;
a catholic invented WORD, to identify a catholic invented TITLE, with a catholic invented MEANING.

I have ZERO need or interest in “catholic fantasy”!

Every earthly favorable servant of God, is blessed with Gods GRACE to perform a particular Service for God.....from Prophesying, Preaching, Teaching, Ruling, Wars....and even being a Jewish female with a virgin womb, betrothed to a man, of the House of David.....and those particular servants, receive their blessing from God FOR completing their Service for God.

You appear to believe, by your own words you write; That Your Service for God, is teaching the ONLY church is the “catholic church” and your task of service is to tongue lash everyone who does not stand in agreement “with YOU”.

I have a teacher, called by the Name Jesus, who IS the Way, Truth & Life.
Not once has He directed me to follow YOU or consider YOUR fantasy catholic teaching.

Why Mary was favored, is expressly revealed in Scripture.
What particular Service she was chosen to Serve God is expressly revealed in Scripture.
Her Agreement to Serve God in a particular Service is expressly revealed in Scripture.
When her Service began and ended is expressly revealed in Scripture.
What blessing she received for her completed Service is expressly revealed in Scripture.
When she received the Holy Spirit of God is expressly revealed in Scripture.

Nothing whatsoever in Scripture gave Mary special Titles. (Is Kecharitomene, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven, Our Lady, and all the other fantasy catholic titles.)

“Your” teaching is foiled, yet again.

I don't know what a "nonce" is - buit I'm guessing you meant "Noun".
The word, "Kecharitomene" is in the GREEK - NOT the Latin - so YOUR idiotic charge that it is a "Catholic invention" is about as IMPOTENT as a Nevada Boxing Commissioner . . .

Here is a list ppf PROTESTANT or otherwise NON-Catholic scholarship on the matter . . .
"It is permissible, on Greek grammatical and linguistic grounds, to paraphrase kecharitomene as completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament)

There is no question of a "secondary" reality, one that would have touched her only ulteriorly. Rather, it pertains to the very identity of Mary. Moreover, the appellation κεχαριτωμένη, in all of Scripture, is reserved to Mary, as if it were her special mark. In fact, some have tried to see in the parallel with Gideon, a demonstration that the κεχαριτωμένη would refer only to a grace that is to come, one to follow immediately. For Gideon is called "valiant warrior" at a time when he is not yet such; therefore κεχαριτωμένη would signify a grace that is not present before the angel's greeting. However, as contrasted with what concerns Gideon, the angel does not apply to Mary a noun bracketed with an adjective, but a perfect participle, a verbal form that refers to a past that is prolonged in the present. Therefore, it is before the angel's greeting, before the Incarnation, that Mary is κεχαριτωμένη.
(Kecharitomene (Lk. 1:28) in the Light of Gen. 18:16-33: A Matter of Quantity François Rossier University of Dayton)

Kecharitōmĕnē is the perfect passive participle of charitŏō. It denotes one who has been and still is the object of divine benevolence, one who has been favored and continues to be favored by God, one who has been granted supernatural grace and remains in this state.[1] Verbs ending in ŏō, such as haimatŏō (turn into blood), thaumatŏō (fill with wonder), spodŏōmai (burn to ashes) frequently express the full intensity of the action. Kecharitomene denotes continuance of a completed action. (H. W. Smyth, Greek Grammar [Harvard University Press, 1968], p. 108-109, sec 1852:b.)

From hermeneutics.com
KE – perfect tense (prior event/occurrence/happening that is still existing/occurring or happening now)
CHARITO – a gift, something that is free or unmerited
MENE – a female receiver not giver.

κεχαριτωμένη (translated 'full of grace;' 'highly favored' etc.)

The Greek word κεχαριτωμένη (kecharitōmenē) is the word of contention here as regards translation differences. And it is has much to do with the theology of the translator, but only to a degree—no translations of it have been strictly wrong or right since only dynamic translations (“full of..,” “highly..” etc.) are really possible with such a grammatically rich word. That is, it is difficult to render a single Greek word so rich in meaning (grammatically) into an equivalent word in English: in fact, that is arguably impossible (without being a very ugly translation).

To make matters worse, κεχαριτωμένη is titular, meaning it is actually used as a title, or 'name' for Mary: Gabriel doesn't say, 'Hail, Mary! You are highly favored/full of grace,' He gives Mary a title of sorts: “Hail, κεχαριτωμένη!”

Agreed.
Because she is Kecharitomene at the Angel’s greeting - Mary’s sanctification was complete.

You're OUT-gunned here . . .