The Biblical Basis for Catholic Distinctives

[covenantee]

This is a common anti-Catholic whopper - based in the fact that the quote from Bellermine has been taken OUT of its proper context.
When you read On the Authority of the Councils by Robert Bellermine - THIS is what he actually saus:
"This is almost de fide, and is proved first of all from the two preceding points: for if the Pope is the head of the universal Church, even when it is gathered together at one time, and if the universal Church even gathered together at one time has no power by reason of its totality; [1] it follows that the Pope is over the Council, and over the Church, not the other way around. It is proved by the second reason, based in Scripture: for all the names, ascribed to Christ in Scripture, from which it is determined that he is over the Church—those same names are ascribed to the Pontiff. [2] And first, Christ is the paterfamilias [male head of the household] in his own house, which is the Church. The Pope is the highest steward in the same house, that is, the household head in Christ’s place: Luke 12: 'Who is the faithful and prudent dispenser, whom the Lord has set over his household, etc.'"

CHRIST is those title.
The Pope is merely the STEWARD of what those titles represent.

All explanatory New Testament references are to plural stewards, descriptive of each and every child of God.

1. 1 Corinthians 4:1
   Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
   
   
2. 1 Corinthians 4:2
   Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
   
   
3. Titus 1:7
   For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
   
   
4. 1 Peter 4:10
   As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
   

 

[BreadOfLife]

All explanatory New Testament references are to plural stewards, descriptive of each and every child of God.

1. 1 Corinthians 4:1
   Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
   
   
2. 1 Corinthians 4:2
   Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
   
   
3. Titus 1:7
   For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
   
   
4. 1 Peter 4:10
   As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

And yet, it is Peter who Jesus singles out as the leader.
If peter wasn't in charge -

- Tell me WHY Jesus singled out Peter when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19) if did not put him in charge.

- Tell me WHY Jesus asked Peter and Peter alone to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (John 21:15-19) if did not put him in charge.

- Tell me WHY Jesus said that He prayed for Peter ALONE to strengthen the others and bring them back to faith (Luke 22:31-32) if did not put him in charge. Why didn’t Jesus simply pray for ALL of them?

- Tell me WHY Peter called "Protos" (First) in the Gospel (Matt. 10:2)??

- Tell me WHY Peter's name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Matt. 10:2; Mk 3:16; Luke 6:14; Acts 1:13) ??

- Tell me WHY Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the apostles (Mark 16:7) ??

- Tell me WHY Peter takes the lead in calling for a successor for Judas (Acts 1:22)??

- Tell me WHY Peter is the first person to speak (and only one recorded) after Pentecost, making him the first Christian to preach the Gospel in the Church (Acts 2:14-36)??

- Tell me WHY Peter works the first miracle of the Church Age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12)??

- Tell me WHY Peter utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11)??

 

[BreadOfLife]

And of course being a blatant Globalist/Communist/Anarchist is no barrier to being a "steward".

The pope imposed his own ILLEGAL vaccine mandate within the Vatican. That is really good stewardship.
Vatican issues vaccine mandate for all employees
Personnel without a valid Green Pass or proof of recovery “will not be able to access the workplace and must be considered unjustly absent, with the consequent suspension of salary for the duration of the absence,” the decree said.
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2021/12/vatican-issues-vaccine-mandate-for-all-employees

Talk about COVID tyranny! Pope Francis is a leading tyrant, who also "cancelled" the Latin Mass tyrannically and illegally:"This week’s news program is devoted exclusively to a deep analysis of Pope Francis’ illegal attempt to quarantine and cancel the 2,000-year-old Traditional Latin Mass in Traditionis Custodes, his new Apostolic Letter (July 16, 2021).
BREAKING: Francis Tries to Cancel the Traditional Latin Mass - Catholic Family News

So all this pious talk about the pope being a steward is nothing but HOT AIR. For which BOL is well known.

COVID?? You think that the Pope is "antichrist "because of his COVID policies??
What a desperately idiotic charge.

Jesus promised that His Church would NOT succumb to the gates of hell (MAtt. 16:18). He DIDN't promist that evry leaders would make the right decision regardijng secular policies.

As to the Pope and the Latin Mass - there is NOTHING that is "illegal" about this. It is WELL within his purview to CANCEL or alter the Latiin Mass if he decides it is best for the Church.
Your iugnorance of ALL things Catholic is as bad as your ignorance of Scripture . . .

 

[covenantee]

And yet, it is Peter who Jesus singles out as the leader.
If peter wasn't in charge -

- Tell me WHY Jesus singled out Peter when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19) if did not put him in charge.

- Tell me WHY Jesus asked Peter and Peter alone to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (John 21:15-19) if did not put him in charge.

- Tell me WHY Jesus said that He prayed for Peter ALONE to strengthen the others and bring them back to faith (Luke 22:31-32) if did not put him in charge. Why didn’t Jesus simply pray for ALL of them?

- Tell me WHY Peter called "Protos" (First) in the Gospel (Matt. 10:2)??

- Tell me WHY Peter's name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Matt. 10:2; Mk 3:16; Luke 6:14; Acts 1:13) ??

- Tell me WHY Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the apostles (Mark 16:7) ??

- Tell me WHY Peter takes the lead in calling for a successor for Judas (Acts 1:22)??

- Tell me WHY Peter is the first person to speak (and only one recorded) after Pentecost, making him the first Christian to preach the Gospel in the Church (Acts 2:14-36)??

- Tell me WHY Peter works the first miracle of the Church Age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12)??

- Tell me WHY Peter utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11)??

Peter was present in Luke 12. (Luke 12:41).

Jesus didn't single him out there.

Even when Peter asked for clarification of Jesus' parable.

Do you think that the stewards referenced in the Scriptures I cited are inferior to Peter?

Peter himself affirms them as "good stewards of the manifold grace of God".

He doesn't single himself out, or in any way present himself as superior to the "good stewards of the manifold grace of God".

1 Peter 4:10
As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

 

[Berserk]

Enoch: "Since the Bible refutes praying to anyone but God, why waste time on discussing this false practice? Indeed, why should anyone give any credence to this thread, since you have not joined the church you so admire?"

Post #449 demonstrates that the Bible does no such thing. On the contrary, it establishes the building blocks for praying to saints for which you have no answer. nor do you have an answer for the incredible miracles generated by this Catholic spirituality, miracles which neither you nor your comparatively inept church ever witness. For example, a Catholic acquaintance went to the grave of an Italian Catholic saint and asked intercession for his wife's congestive heart failure--and she was healed. On a guided tour, a friend Dick visited to the house of the Virgin Mary at Ephesus and poured water on his knee which had torn tendons and bad arthritis. A surgeon subsequently verified the healing of both conditions! And Dick was a Methodist who didn't even believe in the power associated with Marian springs!

Enoch on the 7 points of my post #448 defending priestly forgiveness and absolution (James 5:16; Matthew 16:19l John 20:23):
"You know as well as I do that this is total hogwash. The misapplication of Scripture does not make anything right."

On the contrary, you know as well as I do that you are unable to address in detail my 7 points of BIBLICAL defense for priestly forgiveness and Catholic absolution. So you must hide behind your irrelevant fundamentalist talking points mined from the myopic fundamentalist Ghetto that lacks the integrity to consult neutral academic commentaries specifically on the biblical books in question.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Peter was present in Luke 12. (Luke 12:41).
Jesus didn't single him out there.
Even when Peter asked for clarification of Jesus' parable.
Do you think that the stewards referenced in the Scriptures I cited are inferior to Peter?

Peter himself affirms them as "good stewards of the manifold grace of God".

He doesn't single himself out, or in any way present himself as superior to the "good stewards of the manifold grace of God".

1 Peter 4:10
As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

Thank you for pretty much PROVING my pont.

The fact that you completely ignored every Scriptural point I made abioyt Peter tells me that you have NO valis response.

As for qhwther or not I believe that Peter was a superior steward than the others - I will leave you with this:
Jesus told His Apostles -
Luke 22:25-26
And he said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those in authority over them are called benefactors. But not so with you. Rather, let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the LEADER as one who SERVES.

One of the Pop’s titles is - “The Servant of the Servants of God”, which is exactly what Jesus asked him to be in John 21:15-19.

There’s something else: Peter was chosen by Jesus to be the Head Apostle and to LEAD the others. I outlined this in my last post. Here if the Biblical Type and Fulfillment that pertains to this:

Isaiah 22:20–22
In that day I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your girdle on him, and will commit your authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall
open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt. 16:18-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed
in heaven."

This almost verbatim blessing EARLY shows the OT Type and an NT Fulfillment.

 

[Taken]

This is a tough question for Protestants because of your rejextion of God-given Authority.
As the Bible admionishes us - there IS a hierarchy within the Church and there ARE those who are"over us" in Christ:

You make assumptions on HALF TRUTHS.

*Half Truth....no, Protestants do not Reject God-given Authority.

*Truth..........yes, Protestants DO REJECT men in Authority positions WHO preach and teach OUTSIDE of Scripture.
*Truth..........yes, ALL Authority Given (BY God), to men, IS that those men Teach and Preach, According TO Gods Word.

*Truth.........NOT ALL men sitting in Church Authoritative Positions ARE appointed BY God. Often men Appoint men, who may or may not Preach according to Gods Word. Often Appointed men Appoint themselves, start a Church, may or may not Preach according to Gods Word.

*Truth........Scripture itself warns of FALSE Preachers.
*Truth........Scripture itself says FALSE Preachers exist.
*Truth........Scripture itself warns to VERIFY WITH SCRIPTURE what a Preacher is Preaching, that what he IS Preaching IS True.

* How does a Catholic VERIFY WITH SCRIPTURE what they are being PREACHED, when you are Preached Reliance On SCRIPTURE ALONE is not necessary?

 

[amigo de christo]

And of course being a blatant Globalist/Communist/Anarchist is no barrier to being a "steward".

The pope imposed his own ILLEGAL vaccine mandate within the Vatican. That is really good stewardship.
Vatican issues vaccine mandate for all employees
Personnel without a valid Green Pass or proof of recovery “will not be able to access the workplace and must be considered unjustly absent, with the consequent suspension of salary for the duration of the absence,” the decree said.
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2021/12/vatican-issues-vaccine-mandate-for-all-employees

Talk about COVID tyranny! Pope Francis is a leading tyrant, who also "cancelled" the Latin Mass tyrannically and illegally:"This week’s news program is devoted exclusively to a deep analysis of Pope Francis’ illegal attempt to quarantine and cancel the 2,000-year-old Traditional Latin Mass in Traditionis Custodes, his new Apostolic Letter (July 16, 2021).
BREAKING: Francis Tries to Cancel the Traditional Latin Mass - Catholic Family News

So all this pious talk about the pope being a steward is nothing but HOT AIR. For which BOL is well known.

That man of belial , FRANCIS , is the most influential False prophet of the world , that i have ever seen .
My advice , THOUGH YOU ALREADY KNOW IT , IS DONT HEED a word that man has to say and let no one follow Him or his all inclusive lie .

 

[amigo de christo]

And of course being a blatant Globalist/Communist/Anarchist is no barrier to being a "steward".

The pope imposed his own ILLEGAL vaccine mandate within the Vatican. That is really good stewardship.
Vatican issues vaccine mandate for all employees
Personnel without a valid Green Pass or proof of recovery “will not be able to access the workplace and must be considered unjustly absent, with the consequent suspension of salary for the duration of the absence,” the decree said.
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2021/12/vatican-issues-vaccine-mandate-for-all-employees

Talk about COVID tyranny! Pope Francis is a leading tyrant, who also "cancelled" the Latin Mass tyrannically and illegally:"This week’s news program is devoted exclusively to a deep analysis of Pope Francis’ illegal attempt to quarantine and cancel the 2,000-year-old Traditional Latin Mass in Traditionis Custodes, his new Apostolic Letter (July 16, 2021).
BREAKING: Francis Tries to Cancel the Traditional Latin Mass - Catholic Family News

So all this pious talk about the pope being a steward is nothing but HOT AIR. For which BOL is well known.

What many cannot see is the plan has been to create a one world govt with a one world religoin and mindset which
will serve ITS agenda . Sounds just like what was foretold in revelation .
And folks just sit at this table of unity , THINKING ITS a good thing when in truth
its not about Christ at all , nor is it for the peoples . ITS ABOUT POWER and CONTROL
its all about a world ready to serve what they will think is God , when in truth it will be the beast and its kings .
Talk about a delusion my friend and its a STRONG ONE TOO .
Uniting all religions together by having them to beleive we all serve the same GOD . WELL
the only truth in that is they do serve the same god , BUT YOU KNOW WHY I DID NOT CAPTILIZE that god .
The dragon has always desired to be worshipped . And folks are falling for it and fast too . STICK to the bible and let us
stand on the one true and only life saving gospel of JESUS CHRIST .

 

[amigo de christo]

You make assumptions on HALF TRUTHS.

*Half Truth....no, Protestants do not Reject God-given Authority.

*Truth..........yes, Protestants DO REJECT men in Authority positions WHO preach and teach OUTSIDE of Scripture.
*Truth..........yes, ALL Authority Given (BY God), to men, IS that those men Teach and Preach, According TO Gods Word.

*Truth.........NOT ALL men sitting in Church Authoritative Positions ARE appointed BY God. Often men Appoint men, who may or may not Preach according to Gods Word. Often Appointed men Appoint themselves, start a Church, may or may not Preach according to Gods Word.

*Truth........Scripture itself warns of FALSE Preachers.
*Truth........Scripture itself says FALSE Preachers exist.
*Truth........Scripture itself warns to VERIFY WITH SCRIPTURE what a Preacher is Preaching, that what he IS Preaching IS True.

* How does a Catholic VERIFY WITH SCRIPTURE what they are being PREACHED, when you are Preached Reliance On SCRIPTURE ALONE is not necessary?

I have a friend who also agrees , His name is ED ZACH LEE . Pronouce that quickly and it sure sounds like EXACTLY .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You make assumptions on HALF TRUTHS.

*Half Truth....no, Protestants do not Reject God-given Authority.

*Truth..........yes, Protestants DO REJECT men in Authority positions WHO preach and teach OUTSIDE of Scripture.
*Truth..........yes, ALL Authority Given (BY God), to men, IS that those men Teach and Preach, According TO Gods Word.

*Truth.........NOT ALL men sitting in Church Authoritative Positions ARE appointed BY God. Often men Appoint men, who may or may not Preach according to Gods Word. Often Appointed men Appoint themselves, start a Church, may or may not Preach according to Gods Word.

*Truth........Scripture itself warns of FALSE Preachers.
*Truth........Scripture itself says FALSE Preachers exist.
*Truth........Scripture itself warns to VERIFY WITH SCRIPTURE what a Preacher is Preaching, that what he IS Preaching IS True.

* How does a Catholic VERIFY WITH SCRIPTURE what they are being PREACHED, when you are Preached Reliance On SCRIPTURE ALONE is not necessary?

LAST question first:

We CAN and DO verify teachings with Scripture. Virtually EVEERY single teaching in the Catechism of the Catholic Church has footnotes with the Scripture verses that support it.

HOWEVER – Scripture itself doesn’t support your false, 16th century invention of Sola Scripture. NOWHERE does Scripture claim that Scripture alone is our “SOLE” Authority.

On the contrary – the Bible teaches that the CHURCH is our final earthly Authority:
- WHATEVER the Church proclaims on earth will also be proclaimed in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18).

- Whoever listens to or rejects the Church, listens to or rejects Jesus and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 0:16).

- The Holy Spirit guide the Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-16).

- WHATEVER sins the Church forgives or holds bound on earth will also be forgiven or held bound in Heaven (John 20:21-23).

This is God-given Authority. EVERY man appointed by the Church has God’s approval.
And remember – even Jesus chose Judas to be His Disciple . . .

 

[Taken]

As for qhwther or not I believe that Peter was a superior steward than the others - I will leave you with this:
Jesus told His Apostles -
Luke 22:25-26
And he said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those in authority over them are called benefactors. But not so with you. Rather, let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the LEADER as one who SERVES.

John was the Youngest Apostle Servant of Jesus.
All of Jesus’ disciple(S), which such disciple(S), Father IS God in Heaven, Have Authority to BIND and LOOSE...

When a man IS with the Lord, and IN Christ, and God IS his Father....
That man IS a disciple of Jesus.
* Peter, Paul, or any disciple in this day have any more “superiority” of one disciple over another. Any disciple has authority to admonish another disciple.


Matt 18:
[1] At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
[2] And Jesus said....
[14] Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
[18] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

One of the Pop’s titles is - “The Servant of the Servants of God”, which is exactly what Jesus asked him to be in John 21:15-19.

All of the TITLES of the head of the Religious Catholic Church and Political Vatican City ARE;
Bishop of Rome,
Vicar of Jesus Christ,
Successor of the Prince of the Apostles,
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church,
Primate of Italy,
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province,
Sovereign of the State of Vatican City,
Servant of the Servants of God.

Pope is a Description of a man Appointed by men to the Position of the Religious Catholic Church and Political Vatican City...

Anyone who is not Catholic, has no vested interest in a Catholics Religious Appointments or a Catholics Political Appointments...
(Less those political appointments, as with any nations political appointment infringes on an other’s nations political stance.)

There’s something else: Peter was chosen by Jesus to be the Head Apostle and to LEAD the others. I outlined this in my last post. Here if the Biblical Type and Fulfillment that pertains to this...

Speaking from a non-Catholic point of view;
Heb 3:
[1] Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus...

 

[Taken]

LAST question first:

We CAN and DO verify teachings with Scripture. Virtually EVEERY single teaching in the Catechism of the Catholic Church has footnotes with the Scripture verses that support it.

Aware that is your claim. Have seen your Catechism references to Scripture and the footnotes that invent claims that are not in the Scriptural references.

HOWEVER

– Scripture itself doesn’t support your false, 16th century invention of Sola Scripture. NOWHERE does Scripture claim that Scripture alone is our “SOLE” Authority.

I use Scripture to VERIFY what men claim IS the Word of God.
If that ^ is NOT to your liking or agreement, Who cares? I don’t.
Verifying IN Scripture what men claim IS the Word of God is NOT a new Invention as you, to ad nauseam repeatedly claim.
Verifying IN Scripture what men claim IS SO OLD, it was taught, to men to what they heard, to Verify with the OT, long before the NT was written!

On the contrary – the Bible teaches that the CHURCH is our final earthly Authority:
- WHATEVER the Church proclaims on earth will also be proclaimed in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18).

Many Catholics claim; “the ONLY CHURCH”, is the Catholic Church, seated in the Vatican City.

In “scriptural Knowledge”, “the CHURCH” is Christ Jesus’ Church; Christ Jesus’ Church is seated IN Christ’s Kingdom, and Christ’s Kingdom is without observation; and men IN Christ are IN Christ’s Church, IN His Kingdom, and that Kingdom IS Christ’s Church.

Luke 17:21
[20] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

John was the Youngest Apostle Servant of Jesus.
All of Jesus’ disciple(S), which such disciple(S), Father IS God in Heaven, Have Authority to BIND and LOOSE...

When a man IS with the Lord, and IN Christ, and God IS his Father....
That man IS a disciple of Jesus.
* Peter, Paul, or any disciple in this day have any more “superiority” of one disciple over another. Any disciple has authority to admonish another disciple.

Matt 18:
[1] At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
[2] And Jesus said....
[14] Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
[18] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Corrent - theu ALL had the power to bind and loose.
Wha's more - their offices were successive (Acts 1:20).
ONLY Peter, however, was given the Keys to the Kingsdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18).

All of the TITLES of the head of the Religious Catholic Church and Political Vatican City ARE;
Bishop of Rome,
Vicar of Jesus Christ,
Successor of the Prince of the Apostles,
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church,
Primate of Italy,
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province,
Sovereign of the State of Vatican City,
Servant of the Servants of God.

Correct - and your point is . . .??

Pope is a Description of a man Appointed by men

to the Position of the Religious Catholic Church and Political Vatican City...

WROING.

"Pope" is simplt a variation of "Papa"", which means "Father".
Nothing more - nothing less.

Anyone who is not Catholic, has no vested interest in a Catholics Religious Appointments or a Catholics Political Appointments...
(Less those political appointments, as with any nations political appointment infringes on an other’s nations political stance.)
Correct.

As a Protestant - you are self-divoprced from the Church and, as sush, are not under his jurisdiction.
You are rudderless, having rejected God-given Authority bestowed upong His Church.

Speaking from a non-Catholic point of view;
Heb 3:
[1] Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus...

Speaking from a Catholic and Biblical point of view . . .

Matt. 16:18-19
And I tell YOU, YOU are Peter (Kepha), and on this rock (Kepha) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and WHATEVER YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

John 21:15-18
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep. Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go.

 

[Taken]

@BreadOfLife

When you say “the church”, what does that mean to you?

 

[Jim B]

The religion of the Old Testament was filled with many practices that no longer apply: a separate priesthood, one or more intermediaries between God and people, an ornate temple of worship, priestly garb, many rituals and ceremonies, etc. Oh, wait, they're still alive in the Catholic church.

Why does Catholicism feel it necessary to add so many OT rituals, etc. to faith in God? Jesus was a rural man who spoke Aramaic -- a true "man of the people". Even in one of His finest hours he came into Jerusalem riding on the back of a donkey colt, not in a gilded chariot. All the worship of Mary, the prayers to "the saints" (whatever that means), the rituals, confessions and absolutions, etc. I mean -- why???

Jesus was never an emaciated European, and He has come down from the cross!!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Aware that is your claim. Have seen your Catechism references to Scripture and the footnotes that invent claims that are not in the Scriptural references.

Such as??

I use Scripture to VERIFY what men claim IS the Word of God.

If that ^ is NOT to your liking or agreement, Who cares? I don’t.
Verifying IN Scripture what men claim IS the Word of God is NOT a new Invention as you, to ad nauseam repeatedly claim.
Verifying IN Scripture what men claim IS SO OLD, it was taught, to men to what they heard, to Verify with the OT, long before the NT was written!

WRONG.
And Scripture itself PROVES you wrong . . .
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

The Holy Spirit, speaking through Paul is putting Sacered ORAL Tradition on par with Scripture.

Many Catholics claim; “the ONLY CHURCH”, is the Catholic Church, seated in the Vatican City.

In “scriptural Knowledge”, “the CHURCH” is Christ Jesus’ Church; Christ Jesus’ Church is seated IN Christ’s Kingdom, and Christ’s Kingdom is without observation; and men IN Christ are IN Christ’s Church, IN His Kingdom, and that Kingdom IS Christ’s Church.

Luke 17:21
[20] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

WRONG.

That's NOT a Catholic defihition of what the true Church is.
It just happens to have its earthly headquarters in Rome - biut the Church itsel is NOT "seated in Vatican City".

so, basically - YOU spew LIE after LIE and pathetically try to pass it off as the "truth".
Unfortunately for YOU - there are too many educated Catholics here . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The religion of the Old Testament was filled with many practices that no longer apply: a separate priesthood, one or more intermediaries between God and people, an ornate temple of worship, priestly garb, many rituals and ceremonies, etc. Oh, wait, they're still alive in the Catholic church.

Why does Catholicism feel it necessary to add so many OT rituals, etc. to faith in God? Jesus was a rural man who spoke Aramaic -- a true "man of the people". Even in one of His finest hours he came into Jerusalem riding on the back of a donkey colt, not in a gilded chariot. All the worship of Mary, the prayers to "the saints" (whatever that means), the rituals, confessions and absolutions, etc. I mean -- why???

Jesus was never an emaciated European, and He has come down from the cross!!!

In the Old Testament, there were THREE levels of Priests:
- The High Priest
- The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood
- The rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers.

In the New Testament, there are also THREE levels of Priests:
- Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
- The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
- The general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type - WITHIUT exception.

 

[Taken]

Such as??

491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God,[134] was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.[135]
492 The "splendor of an entirely unique holiness" by which Mary is "enriched from the first instant of her conception" comes wholly from Christ: she is "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son."[136] The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person "in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places" and chose her "in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love."[137]

493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God "the All-Holy" (Panagia), and celebrate her as "free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature."[138]By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.

WRONG

.
And Scripture itself PROVES you wrong . . .

LOL....


2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."
[/QUOTE]

Typical...to wander off topic.
I was speaking of Christ’s Church, and Verifying what you hear with Scripture.............and you respond with TRADITIONS and SPEAKING.

The Holy Spirit, speaking through Paul is putting Sacered ORAL Tradition on par with Scripture.

Do you NOT COMPREHEND the difference between SPEAKING and VERIFYING
What you HEAR SPOKEN?

WRONG

.

LOL...

That's NOT a Catholic defihition of what the true Church is.
It just happens to have its earthly headquarters in Rome - biut the Church itsel is NOT "seated in Vatican City".

so, basically - YOU spew LIE after LIE and pathetically try to pass it off as the "truth".
Unfortunately for YOU - there are too many educated Catholics here . . .

You simply per usual make accusations.....
You claim “the Church” is not the Catholic definition of what “the Church” is, but YOU FAIL to state what is “the Church” according to the Catholic definition.

OOPS! LOL You’re wrong according to your own Church.

Catholic Catechism....
Article 9

"I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"

750 To believe that the Church is "holy" and "catholic," and that she is "one" and "apostolic" (as the Nicene Creed adds), is inseparable from belief in God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the Apostles' Creed we profess "one Holy Church" ...

 

[Taken]

@BreadOfLife

When you say “the church”, what does that mean to you?