HERESY?

[JesusFan1]

The Creeds came up because it is there description of God that I disagree with. I've encountered people in the past that hold the position that "well if you don't hold the ECF as infallible, then you must not believe Christ", as stance I disagree with.

I don't believe what any man said just because the man said it-- I check with God to confirm that both this person is His servant and this particular message is in align with God's Truth.

No Creed nor Confession was ever inspired, as while important, scripture alone has final authority!

 

[JesusFan1]

have to sign off...
Are the modern writers you ascribe to infallible?

Who do you think wrote the N.T.?
Who do you think gathered the books and assembled it?

Since it was infallible men...maybe we should stop reading it altogether?

Why trust anyone since no one is infallible....

HOW could we know God's truth if we can't even agree what that truth is?
Does God choose who will be saved or do we have a part in it?
Can we abandon God and lose our salvation?
Is baptism necessary for salvation?
Are we required to do good works?

I didn't even mention the creeds...
It was believed that Jesus was God before the creeds...
The first one was exactly to get that straight and out of the way...

The Holy Spirit inspired the Originals, and He is infallible!

 

[GodsGrace]

I “ follow” Paul.As ordered. I “ Worship” Jesus.As is Fitting.

Paul was an imperfect man, just like us in that regard, another Sinner Saved by Grace....It is beyond ludicrous to even “ think” he was on the same level as Christ....The only reason we follow Paul is because “he” follows Christ.....

The Bible makes clear that human leadership is both a necessity and a benefit to the Church.....Paul never tried to be a Boss , Lording it over his converts.....Paul always tried to be an “ Example” .....an example is somebody who sets a proper pattern on how to walk the Walk Of Faith.....All members of the Church should recognize their need for somebody that is wiser and stronger to teach us more about Truth and Grace and proper conduct and service to others......What human set a better pattern of living out the Christian Faith than Paul? That is why we have been instructed to follow Paul AS HE FOLLOWS CHRIST ......

We would be “ walking around in the dark” in regard to many things were it not for the teachings and writings and ultimately the example set by Paul.....it must be noted that Paul wrote NOTHING that he was not inspired to write by the Holy Spirit....If Paul said it—- it’s as good as Jesus saying it....Paul was God’s “ Chosen Vessel” to speak for Jesus after the latter’s Ascension....listen to Paul.....he is the one that we Gentiles are to go to for our Doctrine...yes, listen to Paul and follow him and his example.....it’s for our own benefit....

Very sound reasoning BB and I agree.

Paul thought out the theology of what would become the new religion/faith after the new Jewish sect got banned from the synagogue about 30 years after the ascension. This theology could be found in the book of Romans.

Just 2 thoughts:

1. There are those these days that worship Paul more than Jesus. Hope you're not one of those.

2. Our faith also teaches that we are disciples of Jesus. A disciple is one that learns from the teacher he follows.

I do find that Paul is sometimes misunderstood because his thinking is fo deep.
Instead Jesus is very clear in what is required for salvation...I might have said this already.

 

[JesusFan1]

Not in any bible i ever read was the angel of the Lord called Yahweh.. You are adding what is not there. All spirit beings were created long before the earth.
Jesus is the firstborn of all creation( Collosians 1:15)= created first.

Greek term does not refer to being created, hut that he was the source and origin of all creation, as is over it!

 

[GodsGrace]

no, rather One God, but in 3 Persons

Do the math...
One god in 3 persons makes 3 gods.

3 persons in one God makes one God.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Holy Spirit inspired the Originals, and He is infallible!

Where are the originals?
Hint: no one knows.

 

[GodsGrace]

Greek term does not refer to being created, hut that he was the source and origin of all creation, as is over it!

These Trinity threads are confusing to me due to all the different and errant beliefs.
Are you a traditional Trinitarian?

 

[farouk]

These Trinity threads are confusing to me due to all the different and errant beliefs.
Are you a traditional Trinitarian?

Hi @GodsGrace God in Three Persons is a deeply Biblical truth.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi @GodsGrace God in Three Persons is a deeply Biblical truth.

Uffa Farouk,
Do the math.

There are 3 persons in One God.
:

 

[Cooper]

Uffa Farouk,
Do the math.

There are 3 persons in One God.
:

Are the words "God in three persons" in the Bible?
.

 

[Pierac]

Again, I decided who to listen to for guidance...

"Tit 1:9-11...he must hold firm to the sure word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to confute those who contradict it. For there are many insubordinate men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially the circumcision party; they must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for base gain what they have no right to teach."​

So how do you decide? Do you use feelings? I feel like this or that?

Or do you use scripture and biblical facts...? If so who is qualified to teach you in your opinion?? Would you believe a PHD in theology? Yes or No!

Your problem is... I can find a Mormon... Jehovah witness ... Baptist... and hundreds of other sects... ALL whom all have PHD's in theology... and none agree!

You need to admit to yourself... You don't decide anything... You just follow the traditions of men that you were raised with... Nothing more or less

Hope this opens your eyes...
Paul

 

[Keiw]

Also, the name of Jesus' God is also "Jesus".

No his God is YHWH(Jehovah)

 

[Keiw]

Well that is just a self-serving interpretation and you fell for it. So no credit to either you or the Jews.

The Hebrews know their language better than any trinitarian does. Its them who mistranslated.

 

[Pierac]

Do the math...
One god in 3 persons makes 3 gods.

3 persons in one God makes one God.

Yet Jesus has a GOD!!!

Jesus calls himself "a man" (John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

and the apostles call him "a man"

(Acts 2: 22; 1 Tim. 2:5). Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jesus is constantly contrasted with and distinguished from God, his Father!!!

Notice… Jesus Speaking:

John 20:17 - "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."

Matthew 27:46 - "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

Revelation 3:12 - "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God."

Revelation 3:2 - "for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God."

Paul:

Ephesians 1:3 - "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Ephesians 1:17 - "I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father..."

2 Corinthians 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

2 Corinthians 11:31 - "The God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ knows, He who is blessed forever, that I do not lie."

Romans 15:6 - "that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Peter:

1 Peter 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

John:

Revelation 1:6 - "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, who has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."

When one reads the preceding verses, there is one thing that is a fact. That Jesus Christ has a God. Jesus speaks of his God, Peter Paul and John mention the God of Jesus Christ. Are they all mistaken? Are we to believe that all these verses are misprints? Are we to suppose that theologians several centuries after Christ knew more about Jesus than Jesus and his Apostles? There is no way around it.

The New American Bible (a Roman Catholic Bible) in a section discussing biblical revelation says,
"It is the very same God who reveals Himself in so many richly divergent ways on every page of the Scriptures. The God of Abraham and Moses and David is the God of Jesus of Nazareth."

If we may let our Lord and King have the final word. Jesus plainly states, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be his worshipers. God is spirit; and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24). Who does Jesus declare are the "true worshipers"? He insists, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father…" If we would be amongst the true worshipers we must be with Jesus worshiping this Father. Evidently, those who worship "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, three persons in one God," Are not said by Jesus to be the true worshippers. Those who worship the Father as the "only true God" are. The worshipper of the One God, the Father, as Jesus’ own affirmation that he is the true worshipper.

This is the biblical pattern throughout. The so-called Lord's prayer, the model prayer, teaches us to "pray in this way: our Father who art in heaven…"(Matt. 6:9). This pattern of prayer and worship prescribed by our Lord Jesus is followed and sanctioned by every example given in Scripture. See the following:

“Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus; that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom.15:5-6).

" For this reason I bow my knees before the Father," (Eph 3:14)

" giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, " (Eph 5:20)

" We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, "( Col 1:3 )

"giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light." (Col 1:12)

"And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father "through" him." (Col 3:17)

Nothing, and I mean nothing in these verses teach what you claim... "3 persons in one God makes one God"

Hope this helps...
Paul

 

[Keiw]

"I will be what I will be" is appropiate for the I AM, the Almighty God, and Saviour of Mankind who can do all things.

I will be the "Savior of mankind."
“For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe” (1 Timothy 4:10).

"I will be my peoples Redeemer"
“For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth” (Job 19:25).

"I will be the Bread of Eternal Life."
“And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst” (John 6:35).

"I will be Lord of heaven and earth."
“Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord” (John 21:7).

"I will be and am the Mighty God"
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6).

"I will be and am the King of Kings and Lord of Lords."
“Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords” (1 Timothy 6:15).

"I will be and am the Alpha and Omega"
“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8).

"I will be and am The Word"
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1).

"I will be and am the Fountain of Living Waters"
“O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters” (Jeremiah 17:13).

"I will be and I AM the Rock"
“He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he” (Deuteronomy 32:4).

"I will be and am Messias"
“We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ” (John 1:41).

"I will be and am the True Vine"
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman” (John 15:1).

"I will be and am the righteous Branch"
“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth” (Jeremiah 23:5).

"I will be Shiloh"
“The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be” (Genesis 49:10).

"I will be and am The Lion of the Tribe of Judah"
“And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof” (Revelations 5:5).

"I will be and am The Bright and Morning Star"
“I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star” (Revelations 22:16)

"I will be and am The Image of the Invisible God"
“In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature” (Colossians 1:14–15).

"I will be and am the great I Am from time out of mind."
“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58).
.

Isaiah says his NAME will be called those things. It was God who made Jesus name above all others( not including God of course) You have a lot of twisting going on above.

 

[Keiw]

God was with God is a correct understanding.

Can't remember if I mentioned this to you...

Word is translated for logos. We have no english word for Logos. It means the spoken word, it means the reasoning power...

GOD'S logos is God, of course.
Our "logos" is human.

God's logos became flesh and dwelt among us.
It's the 2nd person of the Trinity. Once born, the logos became the Son.

You will find out different. This system is almost done. You dont have the real Jesus.

 

[Keiw]

Greek term does not refer to being created, hut that he was the source and origin of all creation, as is over it!

He speaks at Prov 8 and tells all he was created.

 

[JesusFan1]

He speaks at Prov 8 and tells all he was created.

He is not wisdom!

 

[Cooper]

Isaiah says his NAME will be called those things. It was God who made Jesus name above all others( not including God of course) You have a lot of twisting going on above.

Concerning post #1879, there is no "twisting" at all.

You should not be preaching Judaism on a Christian forum and worse still attacking the very essence of Christianity, namely Jesus Christ himself.
.

 

[Jim B]

What you cal a "Work" is actually a "FRUIT" of the existence of actual BIBLICAL FAITH in a person's life.

The Book of James is a "Litmus test" so that you can determine id what you "Call" FAITH - actually IS faith, or nothing more than mental assent accompanied by some Religious activity.

What about people who can't perform works? That is particularly true in this time of COVID-19. The primary thing is to have faith. If you can perform works and choose not to then there is a problem, but to say that works are proof of one's faith is nonsense.