What is the usefulness of this post? And what does this have to do with what I said?
Just wondering. I mean, I know what it looks like, but what are you hoping to gain here?
Much love!
The Pre-Trib Rapture
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Just wondering. I mean, I know what it looks like, but what are you hoping to gain here?
Much love!
Paul is very clear that in Christ there is neither Greek nor Jew. But he is also clear that in Christ, we have something better than under the Law, and he is also clear that there will be a future time when Isreal is nationally designated.
Much love!
Ronald D Milam
Well-Known Member
Jesus knew no sin.....do you even get how bad that question was? THINK ABOUT IT. You equated Jesus with my points about SIN FLESH, which he has none of, thus His body was ALWWAYS a Glorious body, never corrupted with sin. I think you just got a little turned around there tbh, it happens.
God's Glory would destroy sin flesh. See the 70 who died opening the Ark of the Covenant, Moses only saw the hinder parts and his hair turned white, no man has ever looked upon God's Full Glory.
honesty. The Only reason i commented here is because some say any view other than the pretrib rapture is of the devil, yet it is the pre trib rapture view that is constantly dishonest and quotes scriptures out of context to prove their point. By explaining away a point that the Olivet discourse has the rapture after the the great tribulation by saying it is not talking about the rapture is to be dishonest and to make Jesus not know that there was a church age or rapture coming. It is sad when you see it.
So you're statement to the world is that I'm dishonest?
I'll tell you what is sad, that rather than address the material, you continue to disparage others.
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, but does anyone take that to heart?
Much love!
One of the interesting things in a discussion on a topic like this one, much is revealed in those who post in it. How we all view the Bible, closely we hold to the wording, how willing we are to overlook a word here or there, what rules we set for ourselves in how we will and will not treat others, much is revealed.
Much love!
Much love!
A view does not have a mind. A view does not lie, doesn't quote Scripture, people do those sorts of things.
Much love!
Ronald D Milam
Well-Known Member
There were no chapters and verses in the bible the KJV added them in. These were many stories that Jesus told and no one can remember in the exact order he told them 30-40 years later when they were written, had that neve dawned on you?
As for as we knw Matt. 24:32-35 and 36-51 could be another chapter. It could go with Matt. 25 also, or it could be different retellings of things in one chapter that the translators thought went together but didn't. On top of that if Matthew wasn't given the Rapture understanding but Paul was, why would Matthew understand it? Even if Jesus was to foreshadow it in a passing reference. The truth is, anyone who can't understand the pre trib Rapture I don't full trust their judgment on much anything, especially end time eschatology.
more dishonesty. For example, Paul's writing preceded the writing of the Gospels... see link for chronological order of them...
Grace Fellowship Church: Toronto, ON, Canada > New Testament Books in Chronological Order (gfcto.com) Matthew i am sure was familiar by the time he wrote his Gospel with the writings of Paul, as well as the church, and the message going to the gentiles etc.
As for me understanding the pre trib rapture, i was a full blown pre tribber for most of my life till the Holy Ghost began toteach me from the word of God the Truth. So the question is who did you learn the pre trib rapture from?
Then why is it that pretribbers constantly accuse other views as being of the devil, or using poor judgment as the above speaks of? This is nothing more than dishonest hypocrisy. The pre trib rapture is just one view among many, you are welcome to hold that view, As I have said before I hope you are right, but my view wants to warn yours to be prepared to be wrong which means facing the Great tribulation... if you are right I will rejoice with you on our way up and out of here.
Another of those useless overgeneralizations.
You actually are the one making the accusations.
Think about it. You'll be on ignore again . . . so you need not reply.
Much love!
The example of this are all over this post, so i will confidently say ignorance is bliss.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
That is rather interesting my friend . Your right i notice many often overlook a word . Specially the word IF . when that IF
shows the fault of their own mind they choose to over look the IF word . have you noticed that as well .
Your right folks often over look real simple messages
in the choice of willfully accepting what doctrine they were taught , even when the very simple scripture shows them their error
they simply choose to over look it and or , try and down play what it says to fit their own doctrine . THAT GETS DONE BY MANY
my friend . BY MANY . How often i have shown how certain church taught doctrines were wrong
and very simply i show it . YET they always either omit the biblical point , or twist what was said to fit their own DOCTRINE .
I say we ought to none of us DO THIS even once . Just learn the doctrine . Take all the warnings as good for us
as well as all the promises . Embrace it all , dont pick and choose what to embrace , embrace ALL biblical truth .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
We should have stuck with the BIBLE is all i can say .
Some of us "pre-tribbers" do not accuse, just simply show
The Biblical Evidence!:
Part I
God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The
Second Coming, is found in God's Context:
God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)
God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)
God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
Great GRACE Departure!
Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:
God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)
God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)
God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)
-------------------
The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:
(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11!)
(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:12-15)
(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15)
(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With ONE army *, “All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11, 15)
(5) With Another trumpet (AFTER "the 7th angel trumpet” in heaven), on
the earth, Angels Are SENT, By The KING, TO: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27!)
(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46!)
(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46!)
To be continued...
Part II
(Previously) The Second Coming, According to earthly Prophecy:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:
(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17!)
(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4:16!)
3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13!)
(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53!)
(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18!)
6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10;
Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25!)
(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27!)
(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJB!)
* Note, The ONE army Of The Body Of CHRIST, Must "have been
assigned our Heavenly positions" for ruling and reigning! Amen?
---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of ETERNAL Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very Richly Edified, Encouraged, And Comforted! And:
Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ :) ↑
(Previously) The Second Coming, According to earthly Prophecy:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:
(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17!)
(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4:16!)
3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13!)
(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53!)
(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18!)
6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10;
Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25!)
(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27!)
(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJB!)
* Note, The ONE army Of The Body Of CHRIST, Must "have been
assigned our Heavenly positions" for ruling and reigning! Amen?
---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of ETERNAL Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very Richly Edified, Encouraged, And Comforted! And:
Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ :) ↑
Last edited:
Every time I've found myself corrected by the Bible, it's when I come to realize that I wasn't taking every word seriously!
My suggestion to others, myself too, slow down when reading the Bible. I've learned the importance of stopping at each and every word, to ask myself, to ask Jesus, AM I actually paying attention to everything I'm reading?
Much love!
Ronald D Milam
Well-Known Member
When he came down with the ten commandments the Glory of God shone on his whole face, which means his hair and face radiated with Gods glory, are you trying to be facetious ?
No, I'm not being facetious. You had said it turned his hair white, I was wondering where you saw that. I know about his face shining so much they made him cover it up. And that he then continued to cover his face so they wouldn't see the shine fade away to nothing. Thank you for your clarification!
Much love!
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Rev. 11:15
The one event that is the key to understanding when the Church is taken up is at the Last Trumpet. (1 Thes. 4:16, 17 & 1 Cor. 15:52)
The Pre-Tribbers MUST therefore reject the 7th Trumpet as being the last trumpet. If the 7th is the last, then their whole scenario is flawed. It means we must endure through the Seals and six trumpets, yet we will avoid the wrath of God which comes in the Seven Bowls.
Many things that support this trumpet as the last is that many things that you would expect happen occur at this time:
1. The mystery of God is revealed (Rev. 10:7 refers to the 7th trumpet) This mystery is spoken of in 1 Cor. 15:51-53, which speaks of the last trumpet.
2. The kingdoms of the world have become the Lord's. Evidently He just appeared to cause this to happen. (Rev. 11:15)
3. The dead are resurrected and judged also. (Rev. 11:18)
4. we receive rewards according to our deeds. (Rev. 11:18)
5. The Temple of God is open in heaven. (Rev. 11:19)
I take most of Revelation literally. Symbolism is usually explained. I take the 144k as 12k from 12 tribes (whom only God has accounted for), male virgins. This supports Romans 11.
.
The Church is already sealed, well most of us, there will be more, but God intends to save a remnant of Israel, which means likely 5 millions Jews who will come to Christ. His covenants with them are sound. They were blinded and He will remove their blindness.
The question is: Since the Church will be taken up (before, during or after the GT), then who will remain in the Millennial Kingdom to repopulate the planet? There are babies that will be born during this time - so it is reasonable to think that God will save some Jews, but not only. I believe among many nations, not all will take the mark of the beast, people that are on the fence, that are not believers, but when they see Christ, they will believe. And every eye will see him. This eye opening sight I think may be when the Jews also believe. The two witnesses are also evangelizing many of the Jews during this time.
>> Keep in mind that many are on the planet who have the mark of God during the GT. The Antichrist goes after the saints. Who are the saints if the Church is gone? This is the Church. Rev. 7:9 is the same event as Rev. 11:15, it's just God showing us a different vantage point. This is a multitude seen in heaven who have just come "out of" the Great Tribulation. If they came out of it, that means they were in it.
Anyways, this supports a Mid-Trib view.
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