The Biblical Basis for Catholic Distinctives

[BreadOfLife]

You are the one who repeatedly says there are LITERATELY TENS OF THOUSANDS of blah, blah, blah, Protestants Churches....
You have NAMED NONE.

You have GIVEN NO examples of ANY Protestant Church in Disagreement that Christ’s Church consists of men who believe:
Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God....
WHY NOT? Why make an empty claim over and over without an ounce of proof?

According to tke PROTESTANT work, World Christian Encyclopedia, by David B. Barrett, published in 1982 by Oxford University Press. - there are some THIRTY THREE THOUSAND (33,000) denominations.

To be fair - some sources have a lower number - yes others have an even higher number.
ONE thing is for sure - the number is constantly-changing because of the perpatual-splintering that goes on in Protestant sects.

For this reason - giving you a complete list of EVERY one would be impossible - not to mention the fact that it would exceed the allowable number of character sfor a post on this forum (10,000).

Confusion is your claim about Church positions. Not my claim.

Confusion rests with “individuals”. All individuals IN Christ have ONE core Belief....that Jesus IS the Christ the Son of the Living God.

What “rules, teachings the Church teaches”, IS and IS not followed by congregates and members who attend that particular Church. AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR OWN CATHOLIC Church.

Jews, Chinese, Arabs, East Indians, Gentiles, Protestants are individuals just the same as Catholics....It’s the individuals choice to belong to whatever Religious Organization they CHOOSE....and It’s their own choice to AGREE or DISAGREE with all the “little rules” the Church clerics establish.

What a nonsensical and evasive bucket of drivel . . .

The fact remains that Jesus prayed for the UNITY of His Chrch (John 17:20-23) - that they remain ONE as He and the Father are ONE. He did NOT pray for the perpetual-splintering that is Protestantism. NOR did He or ANY of the NT writers make ANY provision for leaving the fold and starting your own ehrn you disagree.

Catholics DO say they pray TO statues.
Catholics DO say they were BORN Catholics.
Catholics DO say they ARE BORN AGAIN, without ever confessing their SIN of unbelief TO GOD.
Catholics DO say they Never read the Bible.
Catholics DO say they Attend Church ONLY at Christmas and Easter.
Catholics DO say they do not Pray to God.
Catholics DO say they do not Believe in Jesus.
Catholics DO murder other men.
Catholics DO have abortions.
Catholics DO engage in homosexuality.
Catholics DO collude with known thugs to do their underhanded desires.
Catholics DO sit in a an Office, with the Benefit of a Priests Position, and are Drunks and Pedophiles and Womanizers and Homosexuals.

So what’s your point? You worry about a Protestants House of God, when your own Catholic House of God is above reproach? It isn’t.

EVERY group has dissidents.
In the Catholic Church – we call them, "PROTESTANTS".

ALL you did was give me a list of dissident practices – which run rampant withing Protestantism. . .

Your disdain Against Scripture, is your problem, not mine.
Your election to be BOUND by your Catholic clerics “rules”, is your choice, your problem, not mine.

If your behavior toward other men is a Reflection of you being Obedient to Catholic “rules”, I’m not impressed.

Correct – I have contempt for ALL false doctrines and Scriptural perversions.

Your 16th century invention of Sola Scripture is one of the most insidious of these perversions because it has led to the perpetually-splintering mess that is Protestantism.

As for your last comment in RED – it smacks of a spoiled child who resents getting spanked for his bad behavior.
Don’t worry – you may live to thank me one day . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is a self-destruct thread based on proving how carnal religious people really are. We are all affected by the fallen human condition. The key is what to do with it.
The Catholic institution has some things right and some things wrong. The protestant institutions have some things right and some things wrong.
And this is because all carnal men have both good and bad traits. Religious people live in the outer man NOT the inner man. So they will compare themselves to prove they are better than others. There is a way that seems right to people...but it leads to death, not life.

When we eat of the tree of BOTH good and evil...the result is a foregone conclusion. There should be no surprise at this. ALL institutions are from men...not God. So the fruit will be mixed. The result is a spiritually dead people.

We are supposed to be seeking and striving together for the unity of the gospel as opposed to defending and attacking people who are clinging to a different branch of a dead tree.

There is no life other than in Christ Himself. People will nod their heads at this and then proceed to look to men for their religious needs.

I agree with you that humans can be wrong and there are bad people in every Church. The Church has had bad people within it from the beginning. Jesus hand-picked Judas whom He later called a "Devil" (John 6:70).
The Church itself has ALWAYS been a Hospital for sinners.

HOWEVEER - the Christ's Church cannot teach erroneous doctrine.
If ANY Church teaches bad doctrine - then it is NOT Christ's Chutrh.

 

[Taken]

Yup - that's whay I expected.
Because I nailed you with actual Scripture - and not just moronic opinions about sin like YOU did . . .

Nope.
Ignored for your usual arrogant opening comment.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree with you that humans can be wrong and there are bad people in every Church. The Church has had bad people within it from the beginning. Jesus hand-picked Judas whom He later called a "Devil" (John 6:70).
The Church itself has ALWAYS been a Hospital for sinners.

HOWEVEER - the Christ's Church cannot teach erroneous doctrine.
If ANY Church teaches bad doctrine - then it is NOT Christ's Chutrh.

I find that the Catholic church has basically good doctrine...to a point. The problem is the practice. It is how the doctrine is being interpreted that leads people astray.

I see the RCC as a state religion based on ceremony as opposed to a church that makes disciples. The idea that traditions trump scripture is a slippery slope that has led the church astray from its spiritual origins.

For example, a saint in the RCC is seen as someone who appears once in a generation or so. Whereas the Protestant error makes everybody that owns a bible to be a saint. Two very opposite extremes that negate the truth.

Because of a lack of spiritual discernment, the carnally religious will err on one side or the other. But there is no balance or reality in the effort.

I think saints and the righteous brethren can be found in all the dead institutional branches. But these remain immature because of the artificial environment created by men. The problem is who is running the show. As long as people look to be recognized by the civil authorities there will be spiritual adultery. So ALL denominations are the harlot.

It's funny how supposed followers of Christ cannot come together by the common life of the Spirit but rather fight over the errors they have mixed into the truth. When you mix truth with error...the carnal nature in men will gravitate towards the error...and champion the error at the expense of the truth. This is very consistent.

Our problem is that we seem unable to all agree on the same errors! ;)

We need to encourage believers to start being honest with themselves and others.

 

[Taken]

I agree with you that humans can be wrong and there are bad people in every Church. The Church has had bad people within it from the beginning. Jesus hand-picked Judas whom He later called a "Devil" (John 6:70).
The Church itself has ALWAYS been a Hospital for sinners.

HOWEVEER - the Christ's Church cannot teach erroneous doctrine.
If ANY Church teaches bad doctrine - then it is NOT Christ's Chutrh.

Oxymoron. Oooh ya, bad people in the church...Ooooh no, teachers are above reproach.

The CHURCH is withIN a converted man!

Men build buildings, call them Churches, men appoint men, give them Titles, appoint them to speak at Church meetings.
* Of course appointed and Titled men can PREACH doctrines OUTSIDE of Christ’s Doctrines.
* Jesus’ own Teachings is praise to the listeners who VERIFY in Scripture what Preachers are preaching IS according to Christ’s doctrine.

* You present yourself as an ADVOCATE for Verification OUTSIDE of Scripture.
* Jesus didn’t.

 

[Taken]

According to tke PROTESTANT work, World Christian Encyclopedia, by David B. Barrett, published in 1982 by Oxford University Press. - there are some THIRTY THREE THOUSAND (33,000) denominations.

To be fair - some sources have a lower number - yes others have an even higher number.
ONE thing is for sure - the number is constantly-changing because of the perpatual-splintering that goes on in Protestant sects.

To be accurate, the frontier of Africa was his prime focus. Shocking results. LOL

What a nonsensical and evasive bucket of drivel . . .

Ignore.

 

[Taken]

Hmmmmm - another dodge.
Why can't you just answer the question for yourself??

Already did.

WHO

told YOU which Books beloong in the Bible?
How do YOU know which Books beloong in it?

Already answered you.
Which Bible...? Look it up yourself. There are numerous versions of the BIBLE, complied by numerous men. Open any Version, count the number of Books, and Arrive at the answer. Not rocket Science.

 

[Taken]

I believe that quote is "Confess your faults to one another", not your sins.

Agree.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Already did.
Already answered you.
Which Bible...? Look it up yourself. There are numerous versions of the BIBLE, complied by numerous men. Open any Version, count the number of Books, and Arrive at the answer. Not rocket Science.

This is so typical of you. Why the evasion??

Why s it SO difficult for you to tell me WHO told YOU which Books belong in YOUR Bible.
I dind't ask abpout the Catholic Canon or the Orthodix Canonm, etc.

The Bible YOU use - WHO told YOU that this was the correct Canon of Scripture?
How do YOU know that the bible YOU use has the correct Books in it?

That should be VERY easy for you to anser.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oxymoron. Oooh ya, bad people in the church...Ooooh no, teachers are above reproach.

The CHURCH is withIN a converted man!

Men build buildings, call them Churches, men appoint men, give them Titles, appoint them to speak at Church meetings.
* Of course appointed and Titled men can PREACH doctrines OUTSIDE of Christ’s Doctrines.
* Jesus’ own Teachings is praise to the listeners who VERIFY in Scripture what Preachers are preaching IS according to Christ’s doctrine.

* You present yourself as an ADVOCATE for Verification OUTSIDE of Scripture.
* Jesus didn’t.

Apparently, you've never actually READ yout Bible.
Allow me to educate you . . .

Jesus gave SUPREME Earthly Authorty to the leaders of His Church. He told them that WHATEVER THEY bound or loosed on earth would be bound and loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 29:21-23).

He told them that whover listens to or rejects THEM listens to and rejects HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16).

He told THEM that the Holy Spirit would guide THEM to ALL truth (John 16:12-15).

He never told ANYBODY that it was okay for them to splinter off and start their OWN sect whenevery they disagreed with HIS Church.
THAT was the act of mere men . . .

 

[ScottA]

(6) Purgatory

Looks like it may take a while to get to this one...but I would probably comment on it.

 

[Berserk]

Cassandra: "I believe that quote is "Confess your faults to one another", not your sins."
No, the Greek word is "hamaria," the standard Greek word for "sin."

Cassandra: "Now, if i am attracted to so and so, and I tell another church member about it, even though I did not act upon it, it will color the other person's thoughts against me. That doesn't do anything but create problems."

So that is your excuse for ignoring God's word which commands you to "confess your sins to one another," not just to your heavenly high priest
Jesus. That problem is precisely why Catholicism requires believers to confess sins to a priest, whose confidentiality is assured and who is trained to exercise spiritual discerment in response to confession.

Cassandra: "Regardless, I certainly believe in confessing my sins to a priest. That is exactly why, when I sin, I confess to Jesus.
Heb 4 14-16 "14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need."

You do realize that high priests had jurisdiction over priests and so Catholics confess their sins to priests. We evangelicals need to ask ourselves why we ignore Jesus' teaching on the vital role of church leadership in confession and absolution and instead confine all our confession of sin directly to Christ:
"Receive the Holy Spirit. If YOU forgiven the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained (John 20:23)."
"I will give you [Peter] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven (Matthew 16:19)."

 

[BreadOfLife]

I believe that quote is "Confess your faults to one another", not your sins. Case in point. Adultery of course, is a sin. But we find out from the LORd that if we look upon another one's spouse with lust, we have committed adultery in our heart. Now, if i am attracted to so and so, and I tell another church member about it, even though I did not act upon it, it will color the other person's thoughts against me. That doesn't do anything but create problems. Later, that person may not want to associate with me because of my thoughts. However, if I take it to the Lord, who understands, He can help me with it. We all have sins and potential sins we don't want anyone to know about. Jesus already knows our hearts and can forgive us and help us to grow.

Regardless, I certainly believe in confessing my sins to a priest. That is exactly why, when I sin, I confess to Jesus.

Heb 4 14-16 "14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

As discussed backk in post #52 - ALL sin - whether it is against man oir God is against GOD - the final Judge.

If you fornicate with your brotheer's wife - you have sinned against God and against your brother.
If you steal money from your brother - SAME thing.

ALL wrongdoing is sin (1 John 5:17) - whether it is against your neighbor or directly against God.
ALL wrongdoing is ultimately against God.

Paul specifically speaks to this in 2 Cor. 2 when he writes about the Ministry of Reconciliation:
2 Cor. 2:10
“Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been FOR you in the presence of Christ”

He was forgiving sins - "trespasses"s that they committed against each other - in the PERSON (Gr.-prosopone) of Chrst because they were ALSO an offense against GOD (1 John 5:17).
When James said to "confess your sins/faults" to one another - he was talking about the forgiveness that we must seek and give to one another for personal offenses to each othe
r.
HOWEVER - this does NOT negate the obligation to ask God for forgiveness as well.

By the way - the Greek simply says to "confess to each other."

 

[Enoch111]

Cassandra: "I believe that quote is "Confess your faults to one another", not your sins." No, the Greek word is "hamartia," the standard Greek word for "sin."

No. "hamartia" was falsely inserted into the text to support the false teaching of the Catholic church. The correct word is "paraptoma" = faults.

In any event there is NO biblical basis for any Catholic distinctives. But there is a Babylonian basis for sure. Read The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop and learn a few lessons.

 

[Cassandra]

As discussed backk in post #52 - ALL sin - whether it is against man oir God is against GOD - the final Judge.

If you fornicate with your brotheer's wife - you have sinned against God and against your brother.
If you steal money from your brother - SAME thing.

ALL wrongdoing is sin (1 John 5:17) - whether it is against your neighbor or directly against God.
ALL wrongdoing is ultimately against God.

Paul specifically speaks to this in 2 Cor. 2 when he writes about the Ministry of Reconciliation:
2 Cor. 2:10
“Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been FOR you in the presence of Christ”

He was forgiving sins - "trespasses"s that they committed against each other - in the PERSON (Gr.-prosopone) of Chrst because they were ALSO an offense against GOD (1 John 5:17).
When James said to "confess your sins/faults" to one another - he was talking about the forgiveness that we must seek and give to one another for personal offenses to each othe
r.
HOWEVER - this does NOT negate the obligation to ask God for forgiveness as well.

By the way - the Greek simply says to "confess to each other."

Nobody said it wasn't a sin but I can confess directly to the high Priest, and go boldly to the throne of grace for forgiveness. Don't need an earthly priest.

 

[Berserk]

Enoch111 "No. "hamartia" was falsely inserted into the text to support the false teaching of the Catholic church. The correct word is "paraptoma" = faults."

LOL, obviously you neither know Greek nor own a standard Greek dictionary. If you did, you'd learn that, though "paratoma" can mean "false step." its primary theological meaning is "sin" as in sin against God (e. g. see this use in Romans 5:15. 17f.).
In any case, you obviously don't own a modern critical Greek NT text with a critical apparatus of Greek textual variants at the bottom. If you did, you would learn that there is far superior Greek manuscript evidence for the reading "hamartia"--not that it matters for the point at issue here.

Enoch 111 "In any event there is NO biblical basis for any Catholic distinctives."

Being unable to critically engage the relevant texts (John 20:23; Matthew 16:19: James 5:16). you and your ilk are reduced to mindless anti-Catholic pontification--ironic because of your disdain for the Pontiff.

 

[Taken]

This is so typical of you. Why the evasion??

Why s it SO difficult for you to tell me WHO told YOU which Books belong in YOUR Bible.

NO ONE TOLD me which BOOKS BELONG IN MY Bibles. It is quite plain which “BOOKS” are in my Bibles, there is a handy list outline!
Get off your foolish Catholic style badgering.

I dind't ask abpout the Catholic Canon or the Orthodix Canonm, etc.

The Bible YOU use - WHO told YOU that this was the correct Canon of Scripture?
How do YOU know that the bible YOU use has the correct Books in it?

That should be VERY easy for you to anser.

I didn’t ask about your Bible. I don’t care which of the umpteen Versions any particular Catholics are TOLD to use in any given year. I don’t care what the EVER CHANGING Catholic popes dictate what Catholics are suppose to Believe. I don’t care when Catholics write and rewrite changing their Catechism Books TELLING Catholics what to believe. I don’t care about Catholic men wearing long robes, having a collection of man-made Bejeweled Crowns, Rings, Art works, Elevated, Bowed down to, commissioning Elaborate Statutes, or their parishioners Trinkets.
I don’t care about YOUR Catholics Churches historic SCANDALS, HOARDING, SECRECY and COVERUPS.
I don’t care about YOUR Catholic Counsels, YOUR SPLINTERED Roman, Eastern Orthodox, Rites, Catholic Churches.

Get it? Your endless Lambasting and Gaslighting of everything that is not Stamped Catholic is old and boring, and does nothing whatsoever to intrigue an others interest to consider a Religious Organization whose peons are armed with endless arrogant badgering techniques as a means to spark an others interest. Laughable!

 

[Taken]

Apparently, you've never actually READ yout Bible.

Not at all apparent.

Allow me to educate you . . .

No. Not interested in YOUR outside of Scripture authors, Not interested in YOUR interpretations OF Scriptures.

 

[Berserk]

Taken, let me ask you 2 pointed questions:
(1) Can you give the date of the closure of the New Testament canon? Nope!
(2) Can you identify even one list of precisely the 66 books of the Protestant Bible prior to the Reformation? Nope!
So I guess we just have to trust the role of the Spirit guiding Catholic tradition. don't we

 

[Taken]

Your 16th century invention of Sola Scripture is one of the most insidious of these perversions because it has led to the perpetually-splintering mess that is Protestantism.

LOL....Sola Scripture was my 16th century invention?

Don’t be so ridiculous and obtuse.
I didn’t invent Trusting Scripture as a means for Doctrine, Reproof, Correction, Instruction, Validation and Verification.

Are these passages missing from your Bible?

2 Tim 3:
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

John 5:
[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Acts 17:
[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Don’t worry – you may live to thank me one day . . .

Worry concerning you...laughable.
Don’t you worry, wait, hope for a thank you .... very doubtful!