Christians are not under the New Covenant

[Curtis]

Easy.

In the new covenant:

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.”


The Holy Spirit indwells all those born again, their sins are forgiven, and the fruit of the Holy Spirit manifests in them, and they have a personal relationship with God because the trinity is in them, Romans 8:9-11, and Gods law dwells in their heart, so His laws are written in their heart, which Jesus and Paul make clear is found in love, which fulfills all the law - al of which fulfills the new covenant promises.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Secondly as you think that the way God treated Adam is the same as the church

#1- You do not know how I think about the way God treated Adam is the same as the church because I have never even come close to discussing that with you or anyone else in the thread!! What right do you have in deciding how I think about anything other that what I specifically post on this website?

#2- The way God treated Adam is not within the scope of this threat anyway!

#3- Anything about "the church" is a different topic also.

 

[Moriah's Song]

explain why looking at the unique ways God governed man over time is so hellishly wrong

This is another mere diversion just as this whole sentence is. How God governed man over time is another thread.

 

[Moriah's Song]

you accuse me of preaching another Jesus!

I don't accuse you of preaching another Jesus. I accuse "the system" you use and let scripture speak for itself. I will always speak out against what dispensationalism has done to unsuspecting individuals because of the proliferation techniques that satan has taken advantage of to split the "body of Christ" into two groups of people. That is where the heart of the system has been able to successfully put odds within "the church" today.

The main thoughts that dispensationalist avoid about Christ is that it in truth brings a Holy God down to mans level. Dispensationalism wants to bring Christ back again to do exactly what he did the first time he came to bring salvation to ALL who believe in Him - Jew and Gentile.

~ It says that Christ failed his mission to bring the Jeremiah 31 promise to bring the two houses together.

~ It says that Christ is coming back to sit on David's throne when he was already crowned King of Kings even while hanging on the cross.

~ It denies that "Israel" is the church and therefore denies that both Jews and Gentiles were shown to be united through the Jews first and then through the Gentiles which made it "the body with several parts united in one Christ."

~ It denies that "the land" was viewed by Abraham and his descendants as if they were in a "foreign land" i.e. the New Jerusalem not a literal piece of real estate in the middle east....Heb 11:9..."By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise."

~ It says that Christs' sacrifices were insufficient so therefore we have to build another temple so we can do a re-do of his sacrifices.

~ It denies that the New Covenant is not "for now" but for the Jews later.

~ It denies the Christs' fulfillment of his priesthood and him as the prophet of all prophets.

~ It denies Christs' own words that He fulfilled ALL that the Father had given him.

~ It denies that Christ fulfilled His promise to make "peace on earth" when in fact he did as in Col 1:20 says..."and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross."

~ It denies that a "multitude" of Jews repented of their sins on the Day of Pentecost as well as a multitude of Samaritans that repented through Philip.

~ It promotes a false idea of the "rapture" of the church so the saints won't have to go through "the tribulation" even though the Mosaic Jews went through a great deal of tribulations for thousands of years.

~ It denies that the 1,000 is a figure of speech as if it were the only instance in scripture that the term is used...."

Psa 50:10..."For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills."

Q- Does God actually have cattle's on a thousand hills some where in Israel?
​

Psa 90:4..."For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night."

Q- Is this literally meant or symbolically meant?
​

1Ch 16:15...He is mindful of his covenant for ever, of the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,

Q- Can the first half of this thought be literal and "a thousand generations" as symbolic?
​

Deu 7:9...Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,

Q- What's "a thousand generations?" Even the word "generations" have different meanings to it!
​

In this generation of biblical illiteracy, many hearers eagerly swallow this man-made version of Christ, never challenging the twisted doctrine that conceived it. When people refuse to love the truth, the real Jesus, or God's holy Word, God gives them over to their own ideas and their false christs, none of which have any power to save.

I truly believe that there are many pastors in the pulpit that recognize the heresy of dispensationalism that has so infiltrated the church today and yet they don't dare speak out against it to their congregations because they are afraid that half of ther members will get up and walk out. We are at a very climax in God's church and the "signs" are definitely in place for a "genuine" one time only "rapture" of the church.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Almost all of those commentators on their website came from Dallas T.S.

So???? I don't think I would find a vovenant theolgy person admiring dispensational theology. Do you?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jhn 10:7...When Jesus said of Himelf...."Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep" do you take that literally? I don't. He’s not made of wood
Jhn 15:5...When Jesus said...."I am the vine; you are the branches" do you believe we're sprouting leaves?

When literal makes no sense....

Mat 5:30...And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Mat 18:8...And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.​

See this just lets me know you know very very little about dispensational theology and the literal historical grammatical method of understanding. All you do is find a covenant theology site and vomit out their criticisms.


but I hate to tell you, but in all other avenues of your life- you use the literal/historical/grammatical method of understanding literature and speaking. Your only exception is th ebible.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is another mere diversion just as this whole sentence is. How God governed man over time is another thread.

You are so very wrong! that is the heart of dispensational hermeneutics!

dispensationalism merely looks at the bible and sees that God governed man in different ways at different times.

The way God governed Adam is different than god governed from the fall to the flood, which is different from the flood to the law, etc.etc.

It is not some absolute infallible revelation handed down from Mount Sinai in stone! But it is a way of seeing that though all men are saved by grace through faith, and that all salvation is based on teh blood of Jesus shed, the object of faith has been different in diffwerent times.

for all on earth during Noah, the object of faith was getting on the boat, for the Jews, it was the passover lamb, etc.etc

So you are wrong this is critical to this discussion.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don't accuse you of preaching another Jesus. I accuse "the system" you use and let scripture speak for itself. I will always speak out against what dispensationalism has done to unsuspecting individuals because of the proliferation techniques that satan has taken advantage of to split the "body of Christ" into two groups of people. That is where the heart of the system has been able to successfully put odds within "the church" today.

That is rank dodging. I preach the system so to you I preach another Jesus, don't try to hide under a rock after you made such an accusation!

Dispensationalists generally speaking do not try to split the body!

It appears your animosity goes far beyond merely how dispensational preachers teach Scripture. It would be nice to reveal what is behind it all.

I would love for you to list some of these demonic prolife ration techniques you accuse me and others of using.

The main thoughts that dispensationalist avoid about Christ is that it in truth brings a Holy God down to mans level. Dispensationalism wants to bring Christ back again to do exactly what he did the first time he came to bring salvation to ALL who believe in Him - Jew and Gentile.

whoever told you this lied to you! I am a hard core dispensationalist. Taught by many who came from Dallas and I never heard of this lie!

~ It says that Christ is coming back to sit on David's throne when he was already crowned King of Kings even while hanging on the cross.

Jesus Himself said in Scripture He will sit on Davids throne! We just report what Scripture says.

1 Kings 2:45
And king Solomon shall be blessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the Lord for ever.

Psalm 132:11
The Lord hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

Isaiah 9:7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Luke 1:32
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:


The bible declares it, why don't you???????????????????

 

[Ronald Nolette]

~ It denies that "Israel" is the church and therefore denies that both Jews and Gentiles were shown to be united through the Jews first and then through the Gentiles which made it "the body with several parts united in one Christ."

Because no where in Scripture does it say that teh church is Israel.

~ It denies that the New Covenant is not "for now" but for the Jews later.

Because as I have posted the New Covenant in its entirety many many times, the covenant itself says it is for the House of Israel and the House of Judah alone!

~ It denies the Christs' fulfillment of his priesthood and him as the prophet of all prophets.

another lie you have been taught and now are promulgating.

~ It denies Christs' own words that He fulfilled ALL that the Father had given him.

We believe this 100% . But because we see that not all prophecies are about jesus- we realize some are about Israel, gentiles, a coming kingdom on earth etc.etc.

I am still waiting for you to show me how Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of ez. 38&39!

~ It denies that Christ fulfilled His promise to make "peace on earth" when in fact he did as in Col 1:20 says..."and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross."

So we are living in peace right now? Do you watch news? do you see all the Christians killed yearly? How the Uighurs are being butchered? the poverty, crime? Is this how Jesus brings peace?

but He has brought peace between God and man to all who will come to the Father through Jesus

~ It denies that a "multitude" of Jews repented of their sins on the Day of Pentecost as well as a multitude of Samaritans that repented through Philip.

Another deliberate lie! I just finishied teaching a course on this and clearly taught that the early church was all Jewish! But the fact teh chruch started where Jesus told the apostles to start it is not a fulfilment of Jer. 31.

~ It promotes a false idea of the "rapture" of the church so the saints won't have to go through "the tribulation" even though the Mosaic Jews went through a great deal of tribulations for thousands of years.

Well we teach that believers will go through lots of tribulation, just like Jesus promised! but we teach just like the bible, there will be a great snatching away (rapture) and that the church will be delivered from teh wrath to come. That wrath is not hell as hell is never called Gods Wraqth, but the 70th week of Daniel is called many times the wraqth of Gd poured out on the earth! See we take God at what He says.

~ It denies that the 1,000 is a figure of speech as if it were the only instance in scripture that the term is used...."

Psa 50:10..."For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills."
Q- Does God actually have cattle's on a thousand hills some where in Israel?
Psa 90:4..."For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night."
Q- Is this literally meant or symbolically meant?
1Ch 16:15...He is mindful of his covenant for ever, of the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,
Q- Can the first half of this thought be literal and "a thousand generations" as symbolic?
Deu 7:9...Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,
Q- What's "a thousand generations?" Even the word "generations" have different meanings to it!

Another lie you have been deceived by! We fully recognize the use of euphemisms, metaphors etc. The difference between you and me is that while I see Ps. 50, I chron 16, and Deut7 as Hebraic euphemisms. they are comparative terms that denote forever. Hebrew has no specific word meaning etrnal or forever. The common word used is "owlam" which means specifically hidden, and later came to mean etrnal

Ps 90 and 2 Peter are metaphors. Teh construct lets us know that the author is making a comparison and not be taken as literal.

teh problem with ytou is that you cannot accept that the six times 1,000 years is declared in Rev. 20, that it could literally mean 1,000 years. God mentions this time frame six times in one passage! If anything He is definitely trying to say something we should pay attention to! the only way you can make REv. 20 1,000 years figurative is by forcing them to be metaphorical when the construct gives no right to do so!

In this generation of biblical illiteracy, many hearers eagerly swallow this man-made version of Christ, never challenging the twisted doctrine that conceived it. When people refuse to love the truth, the real Jesus, or God's holy Word, God gives them over to their own ideas and their false christs, none of which have any power to save.

Teh deep level of hate in your heart is truly saddening. I will gladly take any of my adult Bible students and have them go up to a bible literacy test!

I truly believe that there are many pastors in the pulpit that recognize the heresy of dispensationalism that has so infiltrated the church today and yet they don't dare speak out against it to their congregations because they are afraid that half of ther members will get up and walk out. We are at a very climax in God's church and the "signs" are definitely in place for a "genuine" one time only "rapture" of the church.

Well we finally have one place of agreement!!!! I agree with your last sentence 100%

I still await for you to show how the New covenant as written is already fulilled. You have hmmed and hawed and thrown up lots of vomited platitudes and accusations, but you have yet to go verse bvy verse and say "SEE" this is how this verse has been fuliflled! etec.etc.

See if you could do that one thing- this thread would have about 685 less posts!

 

[Moriah's Song]

All you do is find a covenant theology site and vomit out their criticisms.

This kind of talk only reflects on you not me.

but I hate to tell you, but in all other avenues of your life- you use the literal/historical/grammatical method of understanding literature and speaking. Your only exception is the bible.

You have no idea what "avenues of my life" I use but it is certainly not the avenue you take in interpreting scripture that's for sure.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This kind of talk only reflects on you not me.

Well the shoe fits you , so you get to wear it. If you think this is bad, go back and read the vile infected vomit from hell you have written about tens of millions oof believers!

It is you who has played god and declared as unsaved tens of millions of believers because they disagree with your man made system of understanding the bible. That is the height of human arrogance and hubris.

I guess based on your ex-cathedra damnation of tens of millions of believers we should kill the trinity and establish a quadrinity ! the Father, The son, The Holy Spirit, and Moriahs Song!

YOu are very typical of people who cannot defend your own beliefs. When you get bested, you resort to all sort of ad-hominems.

 

[Moriah's Song]

I still await for you to show how the New covenant as written is already fulilled. You have hmmed and hawed and thrown up lots of vomited platitudes and accusations, but you have yet to go verse bvy verse and say "SEE" this is how this verse has been fuliflled! etec.etc.

Why? I, along with others have presented an adequate number of scriptures for the New Covenant that has been fulfilled by Christs' blood on the cross but evidently you are unable to understand those scripture verses. I don't intend to waste any more of my time re-posting those verses. All you have to do is actually read them.

Your only two constantly repeated over-and-over-and-over-and-over-again OT prophets of Ezekiel and Jeremiah reveals that those are all you have to use for dispensationalism. Not once have you considerded the words of Christ himself when he instituted the New Covenant and ratified it with his blood. You seem to avoid all NT scripture that uses the word "fulfilled" like it was a dirty word when Jesus meant what he said.

 

[Moriah's Song]

I just finishied teaching a course on this and clearly taught that the early church was all Jewish! But the fact teh chruch started where Jesus told the apostles to start it is not a fulfilment of Jer. 31.

2Pe 2:1..."But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction."​

Jeremiah 31 was not about "WHEN" the church started, it was about the institution of the NEW COVENANT that was shed on the cross. In all truth, there was always "the congregation in the wilderness" aka "the church/the assembly/ the congregation/the ekklesia" and other synonyms.

Act 7:38...This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the angel who spoke to him at Mount Sinai, and with our fathers; and he received living oracles to give to us.​

 

[Moriah's Song]

but He has brought peace between God and man to all who will come to the Father through Jesus

Did I not quote Col. 1:20? I guess it takes another verse....

Luk 2:14.."Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!"

Col 1:20...and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.​

 

[Moriah's Song]

All you do is find a covenant theology site and vomit out their criticisms.

You deserve to be banned from this website altogether.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Jesus Himself said in Scripture He will sit on Davids throne! We just report what Scripture says.

The bible declares it, why don't you???????????????????

I don't think you quoted all the scriptures that refers to the Davidic throne! First though, my whole quote of which I declared quite well was....

~ It says that Christ is coming back to sit on David's throne when he was already crowned King of Kings even while hanging on the cross.

Dispensationalism does say that Jesus will return to sit on David's throne in the elusive new temple does it not??????

BUT, Jesus fulfilled his promise and is now sitting on David's throne as King in the Heavenly Jerusalem!! Therefore, there is NO need for another temple because the Christ will reign on the Davidic throne from heaven forever.

Here is the whole picture concerning the "throne of David"

Solomon fulfilled God's promise to keep the line of David moving along until the Messiah appeared to take seat on the Davidic throne in heaven.

2Ch 6:10...Now the LORD has fulfilled his promise which he made; for I [Solomon] have risen in the place of David my father, and sit on the throne of Israel, as the LORD promised, and I have built the house for the name of the LORD, the God of Israel.​

Jeremiah also reminds the readers that David's throne will continue on.

Jer 33:17..."For thus says the LORD: David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,​

The Christ came from the line of David and was entitled to sit on David's throne.

Mat 1:17...So all the generations from Abraham to David were fourteen generations, and from David to the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon to the Christ fourteen generations.​

Luke quotes the promise of the OT prophecy that guaranteed its fulfillment in Christ.

Luk 1:32...He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to [Jesus] the throne of his father David,​

Mat 2:2..."Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him."
Mat 27:29...and plaiting a crown of thorns they put it on his head, and put a reed in his right hand. And kneeling before him they mocked him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!"​

Heb 2:9...But we see Jesus, who for a little while was made lower than the angels, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for every one.​

2Ti 2:8...Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descended from David, as preached in my gospel,​

Rev 3:21...He who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I myself conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Rev 19:16...On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords.​

Rev 22:16..."I Jesus have sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star.""​

Jesus Himself said in Scripture He will sit on Davids throne and HE IS NOW SITTING ON DAVID'S THRONE IN HEAVEN!!!

I just report what Scripture says.

The bible declares it, why don't you???????????????????

 

[Moriah's Song]

That is the height of human arrogance and hubris.

As a teacher you should know that "arrogance" and "hubris" are synonyms. Remember, when you point the finger at someone else you have 4 fingers pointing back at yourself.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

the Christ will reign on the Davidic throne from heaven forever.

That is not in the bible! that is a man made teaching based on faulty premises.

As a teacher you should know that "arrogance" and "hubris" are synonyms. Remember, when you point the finger at someone else you have 4 fingers pointing back at yourself.

well I was not th eone accussing other bvrfothers and sisters of preaching another jesus! That was you! to say that is the height of arrogance and hubris. And that is a perfectly legitimate way of putting both words together. It is a tool for emphasis. and remember when you accuse your brethren of preaching another Jesus- loo0k at your own 4 fingers.

Remember the word of Jesus, before you judge the splinter in yoru brothers ewye, take out the log in your own!

but I would like to apologize to you and all on this thread.

I called you ignorant and a first grader because of your lack of knowledge as to what a dispensational hermeneutic actually believes.

IU meant something different (though it was still a rebuke of you) but I engaged my fingers ahead of my thinking so it came out very badly. For this I apologize.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

#1- You do not know how I think about the way God treated Adam is the same as the church because I have never even come close to discussing that with you or anyone else in the thread!! What right do you have in deciding how I think about anything other that what I specifically post on this website?

#2- The way God treated Adam is not within the scope of this threat anyway!

#3- Anything about "the church" is a different topic also.

Well when you stop spoouoting the lies as to what dispenswational teaching is- I will stop making assumptions as to you.

but all schools of covenant theology that I have studied all say all believers are part of teh church , so that by definition would mean they all since Adam have been treated the same.

Dispensational thought teaches that God has dealt with man in different ways at different times.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You deserve to be banned from this website altogether.

I guess not! Why however? Because I use very descritpive words to show what you do? when one simply posts what some site teaches without verifying if it is true or not- that is simply vomiting out something! That is a figure of speech! Literalist sknow that!