Marymog
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Another word game. Can you just answer the question: What does what you have written have to do with what we are talking about?
Catholic issues
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Marymog
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The Magisterium of The Church is the "who" in Matthew 18:17.
The term magisterium is based on the Latin word for “teacher” (magister). It refers to the teaching authority which Christ has given to the Church with the Apostles being the first magisterium's. The term refers to the authority itself, not those who exercise it. The term refers to those who exercise this teaching authority—in other words, to the pope and the bishops teaching in union with him. Collectively, they are referred to as the “Magisterium,” as in “the Magisterium has infallibly taught that God is a Trinity.”
Subjective to you because you are unable to read/see his mind or heart. Not, however, subjective to him if God provided the response.
Oceanprayers
Active Member
Again, thank you for that link.
I can't say there was anything compelling there to make me want to join the CC .
It read as a personal perspective intended to in no wise brag against the faults of Protestantism. A, "we're better because..."
Which interestingly enough conflicts with those points in the list that imply Catholicism is about unity and not egocentrism, nor division.
Lastly, the insistence that the church posits a great morality , is in direct conflict with all of church history.
Hard to imagine an inate eternal omnipresent creative power prefers one group of elect humans over all others.
The race itself created wholly depraved and condemned st our individual beginning, birth, by the will of our creator.
And only saved from that eternally damned fate that awaits all humans by the elective grace, and bestowed faith, upon the individual the Creator, for their own purposes and reasons, elects to set apart and save from the gate thst awaits others by his will.
God created everything. And only saves certain ones from the destiny he predetermined before creating anything at all.
How do mortal finitely conscious lesser beings made in the image and likeness of their creator disappoint eternal power and omniscience? When we are made by God to be both everything we are and are not.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Who belongs to the Catholic Church?
836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God.... and to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."
Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText
Pax et Bonum!
You presume you know that I taught myself. You may believe that, but you do not know it. Through scripture you proved nothing. All you did was quote verses.
I only see that you either did not understand, or did not like, or disagreed with my answer. I tried to answer honestly, and you call it a word game. I am not playing any game, not when it comes to God and the things of God.
The problem is we. you and I, apparently have different sources for our answers and therefore there is no real common ground for discussion. That is not a word game. That is a lack of communication.
I have tried to explain as @Ferris Bueller and others have tried to explain, but you still insist we cannot be doing what we say we are doing. You insist apparently that we cannot be hearing from God. [Is that not what you are saying?]
What do you believe the "ears to hear" are and when one has them, the ones about which Jesus speaks in the scriptures? Who do you suppose we are hearing? Have you decided or has someone told you, who His sheep are... that is the ones who hear His voice?
Do you believe that only ministers holding formal Catholic Church positions hear from God? Why do you presume that everyone must fit into one of your boxes or be playing a game? Do you have the mind of God in all of your dealings with people? Do see what is in each heart?
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JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Why would you need such elaborate Vestments and regalia when giving mass? Would a simple outfit be enough as in Jesus’ time when Christ and his Apostles wore simple robes.Because it was illegal. Liturgical vestments (not "costumes")was a later development as a fulfilment of Judaism.
Prayers are said during vesting.
Jesus did not abolish ritual, He perfected them.
Those vestments including the mitre the Pope and his Bishops wear are all part of the rituals they perform, if these vestments were necessary then Christ and his apostles would’ve worn them.
Costumes are for cults such as Satanic ones.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ah well now, you see, I do not need reference numbers or any catechism to believe in Jesus the Christ and to be re-born spiritually into his family. You may have your fallible magisterium or whatever you call it but without the input of the Holy Spirit to give light and life it is useless.
The fact is, it seems to me, that Catholics care more about their church's rituals and doctrines than they do about Jesus.
If this isn't true @Philip James please tell me the story of how you came to know Jesus as your Saviour, and why you chose the Catholic church..
Priestly garments were of the Old Testament and are not necessary in the church today
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
We have a right to defend our rituals against baseless attacks from ignorant anti-Catholic bigots, and there is plenty of that in this forum. I suggest you grow up and stop with the stupid insults. You can't defend your own man made traditions on baptism (that wasn't even a reformist issue) so you attack authentic ritual, something you obviously know nothing about. Jesus did not abolish ritual, He perfected them.
The ancient Jewish high priest wore very elaborate vestments, but you don't attack them because of your deep seated prejudice against Catholicism.
"The fact is, it seems to me, that Catholics care more about their church's rituals and doctrines than they do about Jesus" is stupid and insulting. If you stopped doing that, talk to us as if you were a Christian, talk to us as if we were human beings and not dogs, we wouldn't have anything to say.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Why would you assume there is no input of the Holy Spirit? It is in fact faith in the Holy Spirit to guide, protect, correct and build Christ's Church that accounts for the preservation of the deposit of faith, given once for all to the apostles.
The whole life of the Church flows from Jesus, manifestly present on our altars.
Indeed the sacraments are all the work of Christ, pouring out His Grace on His people, through the power of the Holy Spirit.
I have known Jesus as my saviour since before I can remember, having had the privilege of being brought into His Church as a babe. (Thanks be to God for the faith of my mother!)
Having had my faith challenged on a board much more radical than this one, i investigated what the early Church taught and practiced as well as what the ancient apostolic communities practice today..
I found there 2000 year old living witnesses to the Truth of the Sacraments with the Church in Rome, the Church in Alexandria, and the Church in Constantinople...
Further I found no apostolic community that teaches otherwise...
If we are not drinking from the ONE Cup, and eating the ONE loaf that Jesus gave to His disciples, where are we?
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."
Pax et Bonum!
Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
So you're saying that when Jesus told that we'd KNOW HIS VOICE, and wouldn't follow another, Jesus was lying, and we need old men in dresses and funny hats in Rome to lead us.
I'll take vanilla.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The two things that protestants hate....the Catholic Church and Smart people LOL
Like Biden said, I am sick and tired of smart men! We need a stupid president and we got one!
There are alternatives....
Educated in Christianity or stupid in Christianity....
What does it take to interpret an ancient text?.....pick a translation and read it like the most recent edition of the local Sunday Paper.
WOW!! Wonder how we got 30,000 renditions of the scriptures?.....Mystery solved!
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Yes but my point is Jesus and his Disciples did not dress in vestments, so if the Priests and Pope of the RCC were to follow in Jesus' footsteps they never would've worn those vestments and adorn their Churches in gold and marble, that is more Architectual in the way of the rich and not the humble.
Absolutely right. I don't even know anybody who could afford and $800 suit. Most men in my church wear jeans including the 'preacher'.
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Well that's what I said. Jesus would probably wear jeans today like the men in my church not a suit either.
Taken
Well-Known Member
$800 suit....uh, more like 3-$10,000. And not to mention the umpteen cans of hairspray.... People certainly are impressed by the glitz of a speakers apparel and foo foo, and the sanctuary’s glitz....yet God says it’s about the “house” being a house of prayer and worship unto Him...
True, Jesus wore clothing like a common man.
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