"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[GodsGrace]

he was still the son, He is like those who will recieve wood hay and straw. Their works are burnt up, they squandered their inheritance, But they are still saved even as through fire.

Hs fathers blood (which made him a son to begin with) was stil flowing in him. ‘

He was, His life could now be blessed again, eternal salvation is not the contest here

There is no such thing as conditional security. That is not security at all. Anyone who trusts in themselves is not secure.

EG,,,
You're referencing
1 Corinthians 3:15
regarding the wood, hay and straw.
This is not what 1 Cor is speaking of.
You think I have a serious issue with the Word?
Funny.

And I don't know any Christian that trusts in himself.
As I can see it...if a person gets verses messed up, his entire belief system gets messed up.

One mistake leads to another, and so on....
Just speaking generally...

 

[BarneyFife]

God never allows those who are genuinely saved to completely fall away.

No assurance in this whatsoever. Ambiguous, end-run qualification.

 

[BarneyFife]

Foreordained is good for me.
I just hope you don't mean predestinated...


(since I agree with you so much).

I believe we are largely of one accord. No harsh Calvinist views here. :)

 

[Cooper]

@Lifelong_sinner @Cooper @GodsGrace

Actually, those verses were talking about why there is no need for a saved believer to go through all that again should they fall away.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

There is no need to go through all that again boldened in the red, because it is impossible, meaning there is no need for repeating that again for that would be like crucifying Him all over again. Thus seeing how that is impossible, there is no need for believers to go through that again in the red, but to go on to perfection.

Below shows the necessity of going unto perfection after life has been received into the ground and cannot be undone, but what we sow towards will be judged; to the works of the flesh, then it gets burned, but life as in the water, still has been received into the ground.

But for those that used that water for sowing to the fruits of the Spirit and not to the works of the flesh, bears the herbs thereof.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

If you compare the consequence for defiling the temple of God for what we build on that foundation, whereby physical death is incurred ( 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 ), but the spirit is saved ( 1 Corinthians 3:15 ) even though left behind in that day of fire ( Luke 12:40-49 & 1 Corinthians 3:13 ). That is why their spirits are with the Lord under the altar Revelation 6:9-11 awaiting their resurrection after the great tribulation Revelation 7:9-17 to serve the King of kings on earth in His thousand year reign Revelation 20:1-6

So what we build on that foundation will be judged 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 just as what we used that water for that was received in the earth; weeds or herbs? Hebrews 6:7-8

Impossible means it cannot/will not be done.
.

 

[Behold]

All three--it is a paradox. :)
Eternal life is only revocable by ourselves. But it doesn't happen overnight, normally.

You can't revoke, what you didn't cause.
This applies to salvation, eternal life, and being born again.

See, "eternal life" is Jesus Himself.
So, if Jesus is in you, READER... then you are now in spiritual union with eternal life, Himself.
This is a BIRTH, spiritually, that happened inside you. It happened to your spirit.
You are born again, BIRTHED Spiritually = into Jesus,= into God, and that is why you exist in Eternal LIFE< as they are Eternal Life.
Becoming this situation, happened because God caused it., and once this birth happens, its finished.
See, you can never stop being Born AGAIN.
Always remember that Jesus, who is Eternal Life..... said........>"i will never leave you, or forsake you", and "you shall never perish".
And where is Jesus?
God is INSIDE YOU, joined to your SPIRIT< if you are born again.

 

[BarneyFife]

You can't revoke, what you didn't cause.
This applies to salvation, eternal life, and being born again.

See, "eternal life" is Jesus Himself.
So, if Jesus is in you, READER... then you are now in spiritual union with eternal life, Himself.
This is a BIRTH, spiritually, that happened inside you. It happened to your spirit.
You are born again, BIRTHED Spirituall,= into Jesus,= into God, and that is why you exist in Eternal LIFE< as they are Eternal Life.
Becoming this situation, happened because God caused it., and once this birth happens, its finished.
See, you can never stop being Born AGAIN.
Always remember that Jesus, who is Eternal Life..... said........>"i will never leave you, or forsake you", and "you shall never perish".
And where is Jesus?
He is INSIDE YOU, joined to your SPIRIT< if you are born again.

Again, emphatic, intricate expression (this time coupled with cherry-picking) does not indicate sound doctrine.

I know you believe what you say--that don't make it so. It is not in accordance with the whole counsel of God. Sorry. :)

 

[Christ4Me]

Lifelong_sinner said: ↑
"God never allows those who are genuinely saved to completely fall away."

It has happened & is happening now in these latter days; 2 Peter 2:18-22 It will even happen supernatural wise in these latter days 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Thessalonians 2:1-15 But even though in the next chapter, Paul addressed those that have fallen away from the faith and commands us to withdraw from them with His help, we do so to not treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still 2 Thessalonians 3:1-15

No assurance in this whatsoever. Ambiguous, end-run qualification.

So even saved believers can go astray religiously ( Titus 1:16 ).

Matthew 12:1-7 has the Pharisees seeking to condemn His disciples for picking ears of corn on the sabbath and thus profaning the sabbath day. Jesus pointed out 2 incidences where O.T. saints had profaned the sabbath but were guiltless because they were in the temple. Then He directed their attention to the present on how One greater than the Temple was here for why His disciples were guiltless for profaning the sabbath.

This passage in scripture is often overlooked but for the average sabbath day keeper today that would ask how and why...

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

So I understand why we are not to judge anyone for not keeping the sabbath day or even if they wanted to honor Him on the sabbath day without judging anyone for not observing the sabbath day because Jesus is in us always for why He is able to make us stand.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

So saved believers can go astray religious wise if they judge others for not observing the sabbath day, even though they can honor Him that day if they want to, but because He is in us always, is why all believers are guiltless for profaning the sabbath because He is able to make us stand.

This is just an example of Titus 1:16 as there are other religious works that a saved believer can go astray by in iniquity that denies Him in one way or another, and unless they repent, they are at risk of being left behind, but still saved.

 

[Christ4Me]

Impossible means it cannot/will not be done.
.

But not how you apply it to mean. It is "impossible" to lay those things again so it is unnecessary for a saved believer to go through that again, after having fallen away. That is why we are to go on to perfection which also means repentance from dead works, weeding so the herbs can grow or else.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You have to apply 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 to the above for that is the same message.

 

[Cooper]

Lifelong_sinner said: ↑
"God never allows those who are genuinely saved to completely fall away."

It has happened & is happening now in these latter days; 2 Peter 2:18-22 It will even happen supernatural wise in these latter days 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Thessalonians 2:1-15 But even though in the next chapter, Paul addressed those that have fallen away from the faith and commands us to withdraw from them with His help, we do so to not treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still 2 Thessalonians 3:1-15



So even saved believers can go astray religiously ( Titus 1:16 ).

Matthew 12:1-7 has the Pharisees seeking to condemn His disciples for picking ears of corn on the sabbath and thus profaning the sabbath day. Jesus pointed out 2 incidences where O.T. saints had profaned the sabbath but were guiltless because they were in the temple. Then He directed their attention to the present on how One greater than the Temple was here for why His disciples were guiltless for profaning the sabbath.

This passage in scripture is often overlooked but for the average sabbath day keeper today that would ask how and why...

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

So I understand why we are not to judge anyone for not keeping the sabbath day or even if they wanted to honor Him on the sabbath day without judging anyone for not observing the sabbath day because Jesus is in us always for why He is able to make us stand.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

So saved believers can go astray religious wise if they judge others for not observing the sabbath day, even though they can honor Him that day if they want to, but because He is in us always, is why all believers are guiltless for profaning the sabbath because He is able to make us stand.

This is just an example of Titus 1:16 as there are other religious works that a saved believer can go astray by in iniquity that denies Him in one way or another, and unless they repent, they are at risk of being left behind, but still saved.

God gave us freewill and Adam exercised his freewill. It got him banished from the presence of God.
God's grace does not extend to him smiling on the wicked.
.

 

[Behold]

Again, emphatic, intricate expression (this time coupled with cherry-picking) does not indicate sound doctrine.
I know you believe what you say--that don't make it so. It is not in accordance with the whole counsel of God. Sorry.

There may come a day, or a time, or a moment, when you realize that publicly NOT giving Jesus The Christ Full Credit due Him, for keeping His redeemed, always redeemed by His blood, death, and resurrection, , is a publlc attack on the Cross and an insult to the Grace of God.
That day and time, has not reached your understandig yet, ive noticed.

You dont want to be caught dead, trying to publicly prove that God saved you, through Christ, and then you keep yourself saved by works, as you are always doing here, on this forum.
Its not a good situation to be found trying to give credit to yourself, by denying what Christ aione has finished on the Cross and proven by the Resurrection.

 

[BarneyFife]

all believers are guiltless for profaning the sabbath

I'd like to see some Scripture for this position, and I'm sure you have some. ;)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Wow, dude! Could your description of that woman be any worse? That sin is the same level as the ones you and I commit (which we are counseled to ask for forgiveness for daily, by Christ. See Lord's prayer.) Does your OSAS come complete with High Horse-ism? If you think you are any better than she is, you have another think coming.

Never thought I was better than anyone. I know where I come from and I can safely say most are far better than me. I was simply making comment. I had no anomisty or ill will.

 

[Cooper]

But not how you apply it to mean. It is "impossible" to lay those things again so it is unnecessary for a saved believer to go through that again, after having fallen away. That is why we are to go on to perfection which also means repentance from dead works, weeding so the herbs can grow or else.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You have to apply 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 to the above for that is the same message.

Fallen away means GONE.

 

[BarneyFife]

You dont want to be caught dead, trying to publicly prove that God saved you, through Christ, and then you keep yourself saved by works, as you are always doing here, on this forum.
Its not a good situation to be found trying to give credit to yourself, by denying what Christ has finished on the Cross and proven by the Resurrection.

Whew, I'm glad I'm not involved in any of that stuff. Thanks for the warning, though. :)

 

[GRACE ambassador]

there are other religious works that a saved believer can go astray by in iniquity that denies Him in one way or another, and unless they repent, they are at risk of being left behind, but still saved.

Precious friend, "left behind, but still saved" at the rapture of The Body Of Christ?

This would mean that "only the members with good works" would be "Judged At
The Bema Seat," The Body Would be Incomplete, and not "ready for presenting
To The Father."

I believe The Bema Seat Judgment IS For All "members" or else this passage
makes no sense:

"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive
his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God:
ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building. According To The GRACE Of God Which
Is Given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid The Foundation, and another
buildeth Thereon.

But let every man take heed how he buildeth Thereupon. For other foundation can
no man lay than That Is Laid, Who Is JESUS CHRIST {The Righteous JUDGE!}.
Now if any man build upon This Foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood,
hay, stubble;

Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for The [ Judgment ] Day Shall Declare
it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what
sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man’s work Shall Be Burned, he Shall Suffer Loss: but he himself SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire!” (1 Corinthians 3:8-15)

Thus, for ALL "members" in the Complete Body Of Christ, "the risk of going astray
from our labouring With God" is not "being left behind," but Is "Suffering Loss,
though saved," At Judgment! Correct?

-----------------------------
Precious friend:
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today,?

 

[Behold]

Fallen away means GONE.

You can't "fall away" from being born.

You can only "fall away" from a belief system, into another one.


Let me show you how simple this is to understand.

One day, some years ago, CHUCK< was born.
His mother's water broke, and CHUCK was "Born of water", right there in the Hospital,... out he came, right out of that WATER SACK....>He was BORN of WATER.

CHUCK grew up, and decided one day that He was not going to be born anymore, as CHUCK no longer Believed he were born, and so CHUCK decided to "fall away from being born".... willfully.

The Shrinks, were called in, because they recognized that CHUCK, was not in their right mind.
CHUCK said to them.....'im not here, because im no longer born, i have fallen away from birth,.. you can't see me". "I dont need that needle"..."im invisible, no longer born".

Another time, during another "episode"... CHUCK decided that they were not born again., and they would fall away to prove it.
God just smiled, as He always smiles at theological foolishness that is performed in public, on a Forum, right until He stops smiling and inserts Hebrews 12:6 so that they learn to stop harming real believers.

 

[Renniks]

Okay thanks.
Curious why at 10? Make parents happy? Friends were doing the same?
And At 19 would you say hearts desire?

I was under conviction at ten too perhaps. I was always sensitive to the Spirit, even while rejecting him throughout my teens.
Hearts desire can mean a lot of things. My perception is that God showed me how empty life was without him, so I chose to confess and repent of my sins. He's been more faithful than I have but I never let go.

 

[Renniks]

Then my comment regarding Paul's letter to the Romans was correct...because he said everything I said elsewhere.

That he was saved and not saved? Where?

 

[Christ4Me]

God gave us freewill and Adam exercised his freewill. It got him banished from the presence of God.
God's grace does not extend to him smiling on the wicked.
.

Don't you think God can foresaw some one like that to not save them at all? They would never had believed in Him. but they did.

You have to discern why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House that did not depart from iniquity because the vessels unto honor in His House are designated as having departed from iniquity. Read this:

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

#1 Why did Paul give an example of how a believer ceased to be a believer because of a heresy, but "nevertheless" that foundation standeth sure having that seal means?

#2. Is not Paul signifying that a former believer is still saved for why they are still called to depart from iniquity so they can be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House?

#3. Are those who depart from iniquity shall be vessels unto honor in His House?

#4. Are those who do not depart from iniquity are the vessels unto dishonor that are in His House?

#5. What does it mean that the vessels of wood & earth that are in His House yet they are the ones that did not depart from iniquity?

#6. What would be the point to have those that did not depart from iniquity for why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House?

#7. Are the vessels of dishonor to display the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Jesus Christ, even in His name for why they are in His House?

That is why I believe you are not applying Hebrews 6:1-8 rightly because 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 is saying the same thing as they are still saved

Edited note; ESV in verse 17 has man destroying the temple of God but the KJV has man defiling the temple of God by what he built on that foundation for why God is destroying the temple of God. ESV has man & God destroying the temple of God; wrong message.

 

[Christ4Me]

I'd like to see some Scripture for this position, and I'm sure you have some. ;)

You do know you can click on scriptural references to see it in this forum's use of the ESV? Anyway, here it is in the KJV. KJV & ESV has same message.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. KJV

Matthew 12:1-7 has the Pharisees seeking to condemn His disciples for picking ears of corn on the sabbath and thus profaning the sabbath day. Jesus pointed out 2 incidences where O.T. saints had profaned the sabbath but were guiltless because they were in the temple. Then He directed their attention to the present on how One greater than the Temple was here for why His disciples were guiltless for profaning the sabbath, mainly Himself.