How to defend the trinity?

[Brakelite]

then he must be God Lk 1:47

our savior is God

and eternal

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

I fully agree that Jesus is God. Not because He's eternal, or because He's our Savior. But the best evidence for His deity is His Sonship. Like Father like Son.

 

[Mark51]

How do you defend the trinity from the Bible alone?

wrangler we know you say no!

Member Gismys_7 is correct with her comment to “think.”

There is no single term in the Bible that denotes this doctrine. It is purely a matter of formal belief and politics. Considering this, the doctrine states-to the effect-that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each without a beginning, have existed for an eternity, uncreated, and equal. In other words, each is neither greater nor lesser than the other. (John 14:28; Colossians 1:15) Furthermore, for example, consider the book of Matthew for a start.

Chapter 3:17 Is Jesus a ventriloquist?
Chapter 4:3, 4, 6, 7, 10 Explain how the devil-Satan understood the distinction between Jesus and the father
Chapter 5:16, 45, 48 Why is “Father” being used and not himself?
Chapter 6:1, 6, 8, 9, 14, 26, 32 Again, why is “Father” being used and not himself?
Chapter 7:11, 21 Again, why did Jesus say “my Father” and not himself.
Chapter 8:29 How is it that the demons referred to Jesus as the “son of God”?
Chapter 10:32, 33, 40 Do sinners need to confess to Jesus twice; and, did Jesus send himself forth?
Chapter 11:25-27 Is Jesus praying to himself?
Chapter 12:50 Again why do the scriptures say “my Father” instead of “me”-referring to Jesus himself?
Chapter 14:33 How is it the those in the “boat” understood the distinction between Jesus and his father.
Chapter 15:13 Did Jesus do the “planting” and “uprooting”?
Chapter 16:17, 27 How can Jesus be himself and then refer to another entity?
Chapter 17:5 Again, is Jesus a ventriloquist?
Chapter 18:10, 14, 19, 35 If Jesus is on earth, then who is the “Father” that he is referring to?
Chapter 20:23 Jesus cannot “give,” and who is the “Father”?
Chapter 23:9, 10, 39 Jesus infers that he is not the heavenly one. This denotes two entities.
Chapter 24:36 Is not Jesus contradicting himself here?
Chapter 25:34 How Can Jesus be his own father?
Chapter 26:29, 39, 42, 53, 63, 64 How can Jesus be a son/father to himself?
Chapter 27:54 How can Jesus be “God” and a “son” of himself?
Chapter 28:18 Who gave such authority?

 

[Abaxvahl]

Member Gismys_7 is correct with her comment to “think.”

There is no single term in the Bible that denotes this doctrine. It is purely a matter of formal belief and politics. Considering this, the doctrine states-to the effect-that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each without a beginning, have existed for an eternity, uncreated, and equal. In other words, each is neither greater nor lesser than the other. (John 14:28; Colossians 1:15) Furthermore, for example, consider the book of Matthew for a start.

Chapter 3:17 Is Jesus a ventriloquist?
Chapter 4:3, 4, 6, 7, 10 Explain how the devil-Satan understood the distinction between Jesus and the father
Chapter 5:16, 45, 48 Why is “Father” being used and not himself?
Chapter 6:1, 6, 8, 9, 14, 26, 32 Again, why is “Father” being used and not himself?
Chapter 7:11, 21 Again, why did Jesus say “my Father” and not himself.
Chapter 8:29 How is it that the demons referred to Jesus as the “son of God”?
Chapter 10:32, 33, 40 Do sinners need to confess to Jesus twice; and, did Jesus send himself forth?
Chapter 11:25-27 Is Jesus praying to himself?
Chapter 12:50 Again why do the scriptures say “my Father” instead of “me”-referring to Jesus himself?
Chapter 14:33 How is it the those in the “boat” understood the distinction between Jesus and his father.
Chapter 15:13 Did Jesus do the “planting” and “uprooting”?
Chapter 16:17, 27 How can Jesus be himself and then refer to another entity?
Chapter 17:5 Again, is Jesus a ventriloquist?
Chapter 18:10, 14, 19, 35 If Jesus is on earth, then who is the “Father” that he is referring to?
Chapter 20:23 Jesus cannot “give,” and who is the “Father”?
Chapter 23:9, 10, 39 Jesus infers that he is not the heavenly one. This denotes two entities.
Chapter 24:36 Is not Jesus contradicting himself here?
Chapter 25:34 How Can Jesus be his own father?
Chapter 26:29, 39, 42, 53, 63, 64 How can Jesus be a son/father to himself?
Chapter 27:54 How can Jesus be “God” and a “son” of himself?
Chapter 28:18 Who gave such authority?

You do not have the full doctrine of the Trinity and I'd recommend reading some Fathers on the matter.

1) Different Person is speaking, the Father.
2) Explain why he wouldn't know as a being who has known of God far before you were born, moreover in the former chapter the Father just stated Jesus was His Son before all, that even man heard it.
3) He isn't the Father and glorifies/reveals the Father, see the Gospel of John.
4) See #3.
5) See #3.
6) See #2.
7) The Persons are distinct. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, the Spirit is neither of them, as Person.
8) No, see #7.
9) See #7.
10) His own teaching showing the distinction, see #7.
11) No, see #7.
12) Jesus isn't the Father, see #7.
13) See #1.
14) The Father nor the Spirit ever Incarnated, He is referring to the Father, see #7.
15) See #7 and the Gospel of John, all He has is received from the Father.
16) See #7.
17) No, the date is indefinite.
18) He isn't, see #7.
19) He isn't, see #7.
20) He isn't, see #7.
21) The Father.

You clearly do not get Trinitarian theology at all if you think the Persons are not distinct as you showed here.

 

[farouk]

You do not have the full doctrine of the Trinity and I'd recommend reading some Fathers on the matter.

1) Different Person is speaking, the Father.
2) Explain why he wouldn't know as a being who has known of God far before you were born, moreover in the former chapter the Father just stated Jesus was His Son before all, that even man heard it.
3) He isn't the Father and glorifies/reveals the Father, see the Gospel of John.
4) See #3.
5) See #3.
6) See #2.
7) The Persons are distinct. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, the Spirit is neither of them, as Person.
8) No, see #7.
9) See #7.
10) His own teaching showing the distinction, see #7.
11) No, see #7.
12) Jesus isn't the Father, see #7.
13) See #1.
14) The Father nor the Spirit ever Incarnated, He is referring to the Father, see #7.
15) See #7 and the Gospel of John, all He has is received from the Father.
16) See #7.
17) No, the date is indefinite.
18) He isn't, see #7.
19) He isn't, see #7.
20) He isn't, see #7.
21) The Father.

You clearly do not get Trinitarian theology at all if you think the Persons are not distinct as you showed here.

Hi @Abaxvahl You are right that the doctrine of the Trinity - God in Three Persons - is so vitally important. It is eminently Biblical; the New Testament is full of God in Three Persons (John's Gospel, esp. chapters 13-17; Romans 8; John's First Epistle, etc.).

 

[Mark51]

You do not have the full doctrine of the Trinity and I'd recommend reading some Fathers on the matter.

1) Different Person is speaking, the Father.
2) Explain why he wouldn't know as a being who has known of God far before you were born, moreover in the former chapter the Father just stated Jesus was His Son before all, that even man heard it.
3) He isn't the Father and glorifies/reveals the Father, see the Gospel of John.
4) See #3.
5) See #3.
6) See #2.
7) The Persons are distinct. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, the Spirit is neither of them, as Person.
8) No, see #7.
9) See #7.
10) His own teaching showing the distinction, see #7.
11) No, see #7.
12) Jesus isn't the Father, see #7.
13) See #1.
14) The Father nor the Spirit ever Incarnated, He is referring to the Father, see #7.
15) See #7 and the Gospel of John, all He has is received from the Father.
16) See #7.
17) No, the date is indefinite.
18) He isn't, see #7.
19) He isn't, see #7.
20) He isn't, see #7.
21) The Father.

You clearly do not get Trinitarian theology at all if you think the Persons are not distinct as you showed here.

I am not sure what you are trying to say with your reply. Please explain Colossians 1:15: Who created Jesus?

 

[Abaxvahl]

I am not sure what you are trying to say with your reply. Please explain Colossians 1:15: Who created Jesus?

I was refuting your implication that any of those verses contradicts Trinitarian theology, for it is impossible that it should be done.

As for Colossians and the parallel in Romans 8:29 it is simply that Christ is firstborn by being the only Son of God by nature and being first in dignity of creation ("you were created in Christ Jesus"), first in the operation of salvation and divinization ("conformed to His image so that He is firstborn"), first in the Resurrection (of which He is called first fruits), and so on. His humanity created and is first and His divinity uncreated but Eternally Born.

 

[farouk]

You are saved by faith that God sacrificed his only begotton son to cleanse you from your sins. Faith comes from reading the bible because it causes you to realize your sinful nature and causes you to love God. Other things might give faith as well.

@1234567 God in Three Persons is strongly part of the NT's content, and Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all very much active in the work of salvation (cf. the middle chapters of John's Gospel, Romans 8, John's First Epistle, etc.)

 

[theefaith]

@1234567 God in Three Persons is strongly part of the NT's content, and Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all very much active in the work of salvation (cf. the middle chapters of John's Gospel, Romans 8, John's First Epistle, etc.)

where does the Bible say salvation is by faith alone
1 cor 13:2 13:13

 

[strobe]

Absolutely no. Jesus said those who deny Him, His Father in heaven will also deny. They are a package deal so to speak. You cannot have one without the other. Its why Jesus said to see Him was to see the Father and that the Father and Him are One and why Thomas the Jew called Jesus His Lord and his God which would be blasphemy for any Jew. And Jesus did not rebuke Thomas for calling Him his God but to the contrary accepted his worship when he called Him God.

Jesus asked on several occasions who do you say that I am ? On one of those occasions Peter declared He was the Son of the Living God to which Jesus replied flesh and blood did not reveal that to you but My Father in heaven did. Jesus said to the pharisee's why are you trying to kill Me to which they replied you being a man make yourself out to be God. And Jesus said because I say that I am Gods Son ? to which angered them even more and He escaped from them once again. They knew Hr claimed to be God and the Apostles called Him God in several of their writings.

hope this helps !!!

Where does the Bible say God is ONLY three? The fact is that Jesus is the only begotten son of God (John 3:16) but He gives us all the right to become children of God (John 1:12). Therefore it makes more sense to me that God is a FAMILY rather than a trinity.

 

[theefaith]

Where does the Bible say God is ONLY three? The fact is that Jesus is the only begotten son of God (John 3:16) but He gives us all the right to become children of God (John 1:12). Therefore it makes more sense to me that God is a FAMILY rather than a trinity.

Christ is eternally begotten of the father!

we are sons by adoption thru the sacraments especially baptism

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38


Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21

Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words

Born again! Born from above!


'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

How do you defend the trinity from the Bible alone?

wrangler we know you say no!

People will believe what they choose to believe. That's certainly their right. It doesn't mean I'm going to agree with what people choose to believe. When it comes to the Trinty Doctrine you can't prove it from the scriptures. Too many people go beyond what God inspired men to write down when they try to convince people what they have chosen to believe is the truth about God, such as the Trinity doctrine. Many when it comes to their belief or their preaching and teaching of the Trinity will admit it can't be substantiated in the New Testament. The late Anglican bishop John Robinson wrote in his book, "Honest to God" and I quote him, "in practice popular preaching and teaching presents a supernaturalistic view of Christ which can't be substantiated from the New Testament. It says simply that Jesus was God, in such a way that the terms 'Christ' and 'God' are interchangeable. But nowhere in Biblical usage is this so. The New Testament says that Jesus was the Word of God, it says that God was in Christ, it says that Jesus is the Son of God; but it does not say that Jesus was God, simply like that." Jesuit Edmund Fortman in his book, The Triune God, admits: "The Old Testament tells us nothing explicitly or by necessary implication of a Triune God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There is no evidence that any sacred writer even suspected the existence of a [Trinity] within the Godhead. Even to see in [the " Old Testament "] suggestions or foreshadowing or 'veiled signs' of the trinity of persons, is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers." Jesuit Fort and also states: "The New Testament writers give us no formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, no explicit teaching that in one God there are three for equal divine persons. Nowhere do we find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life and activity in the same Godhead.
So I don't believe anyone can prove the trinity doctrine from the scriptures meaning, from the words that God's Holy Spirit inspired men to write down the truths from God that the Holy Spirit would guide men to. When the promised Holy Spirit did arrive new doctrines were revealed or clarified to the Christian congregation through the help of the Holy Spirit. These new teachings were written down in the books that later became known as the New Testament. In this flood of new spiritual light there is no revelation of the existence of a Trinity. Instead the New Testament reveals something very different about God and Jesus. Like at Acts 2: 22, 32, 36 these scriptures show Jesus subordination to his Father, and that Jesus who is God's Only Begotten Son is the instrument for the fulfillment of God's will.

 

[Daniel Veler]

Without the doctrine of the trinity you cannot be a Christian

A bold statement. Most people are saved through Christ and never go beyond the point. Faith, meaning the samething as trust is a gift from The Father and he wills the amount you receive. Think on how little faith God requires a man to possess to receive his righteousness? I’m sure you confess to have faith but just how much do you have. I’ll guarantee you, it does not measure the size of a mustard seed. To say a person doesn’t understand the trinity is lost isn’t right. Did you know of the trinity the moment Christ came into your life. Your making it a requirement to salvation and that’s just wrong.

 

[theefaith]

People will believe what they choose to believe. That's certainly their right. It doesn't mean I'm going to agree with what people choose to believe. When it comes to the Trinty Doctrine you can't prove it from the scriptures. Too many people go beyond what God inspired men to write down when they try to convince people what they have chosen to believe is the truth about God, such as the Trinity doctrine. Many when it comes to their belief or their preaching and teaching of the Trinity will admit it can't be substantiated in the New Testament. The late Anglican bishop John Robinson wrote in his book, "Honest to God" and I quote him, "in practice popular preaching and teaching presents a supernaturalistic view of Christ which can't be substantiated from the New Testament. It says simply that Jesus was God, in such a way that the terms 'Christ' and 'God' are interchangeable. But nowhere in Biblical usage is this so. The New Testament says that Jesus was the Word of God, it says that God was in Christ, it says that Jesus is the Son of God; but it does not say that Jesus was God, simply like that." Jesuit Edmund Fortman in his book, The Triune God, admits: "The Old Testament tells us nothing explicitly or by necessary implication of a Triune God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There is no evidence that any sacred writer even suspected the existence of a [Trinity] within the Godhead. Even to see in [the " Old Testament "] suggestions or foreshadowing or 'veiled signs' of the trinity of persons, is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers." Jesuit Fort and also states: "The New Testament writers give us no formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, no explicit teaching that in one God there are three for equal divine persons. Nowhere do we find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life and activity in the same Godhead.
So I don't believe anyone can prove the trinity doctrine from the scriptures meaning, from the words that God's Holy Spirit inspired men to write down the truths from God that the Holy Spirit would guide men to. When the promised Holy Spirit did arrive new doctrines were revealed or clarified to the Christian congregation through the help of the Holy Spirit. These new teachings were written down in the books that later became known as the New Testament. In this flood of new spiritual light there is no revelation of the existence of a Trinity. Instead the New Testament reveals something very different about God and Jesus. Like at Acts 2: 22, 32, 36 these scriptures show Jesus subordination to his Father, and that Jesus who is God's Only Begotten Son is the instrument for the fulfillment of God's will.

1 Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

 

[theefaith]

A bold statement. Most people are saved through Christ and never go beyond the point. Faith, meaning the samething as trust is a gift from The Father and he wills the amount you receive. Think on how little faith God requires a man to possess to receive his righteousness? I’m sure you confess to have faith but just how much do you have. I’ll guarantee you, it does not measure the size of a mustard seed. To say a person doesn’t understand the trinity is lost isn’t right. Did you know of the trinity the moment Christ came into your life. Your making it a requirement to salvation and that’s just wrong.

1st no one is saved in this life

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

More to come

 

[theefaith]

Faith & Baptism are required for salvation!

Christian faith including the divinity of Christ and the holy trinity!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38


Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21

Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words

Born again! Born from above!


'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!





Justified by faith includes baptism Mk 16:16 acts 2:38-39 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:20-21

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.





Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!


Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Acts 16:15 entire household
(It does not say except infants)


1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (Baptism)


Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if they reject faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

So don’t negate the word of God or Jesus by trying to delete one verse with another.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Nowhere does scripture say salvation is by faith alone! Rom 13:11

 

[theefaith]

If anyone says you can be justified by faith alone: let him be Anathema!

holy apostolic council of Trent:
By the order of the apostles of Jesus Christ with the authority of Christ!
Bound on earth bound in heaven!
Matt 16:18-19 Matt 18:18

 

[Daniel Veler]

1st no one is saved in this life

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

More to come

You missed the point of what I said concerning if knowing what the trinity is as being essential to be saved.

 

[Daniel Veler]

1st no one is saved in this life

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

More to come

You have no understanding concerning faith and how one receives it. Your looking at your faith and not the faith God gives unto you.

 

[theefaith]

You missed the point of what I said concerning if knowing what the trinity is as being essential to be saved.

1) ok so don’t claim to be saved
2) the divinity of Christ and the holy trinity are Christian doctrines
Christian doctrines and baptism are the means of salvation Mk 16:16
To reject Christian doctrine is to reject Christ and salvation

 

[theefaith]

You have no understanding concerning faith and how one receives it. Your looking at your faith and not the faith God gives unto you.

Do tell! How do you become a born again Christian?