Secure Eternal Salvation

[BreadOfLife]

Good luck my friend.

John 6:

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will,but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead.50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

If I were you I would stop eating the wafer, and eat the true living bread of life. Then you will not die.

Continue to eat the bread that you are eating, and you will die. Because the bread you are eating does NOT ENDURE to eternal life. If it did. You would not have to keep eating it.

There ios NONE so blind as the one who refuses to see . . .

EVERY one of the phrases above in RED proves that our cooperation is necessary for our salvation.
"He who believes" requires that we remaoin faithful to the end. It's NOT referring to a one time, slam-dunk event.

As to the "eating" of the "Bread" of Life - your ignorance of language is your folly. This wasn't metaphorical or "symbolic "language - it was quite literal. For starters - the comparison of the Manna that came down from Heaven (v. 31) and Christ Himself who came down from Heaven (v. 33) refers to an actual, physucal realty.

The Jews freaked out because Jesus was telling them that they had to eat His flesh and drink His blood.
John 6:52
The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

Dis Jesus respond by explaining the "symbolism" as He always did when there was a question about a teaching? NO.
He saud:
John 6:53-56
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you EAT the flesh of the Son of Man and DRINK his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

It might interest you to know that Jesus does NOT use the usual term for human eating (Phagon) - but instead uses the word for the way an animal rips aprat and gnaws on his food (Trogon). As usual, He was using hyperbole to make His pount as He ofter did.

Later, when the crowd leaves Him to return to their former way of life (v. 66) - does He tell them that He was only speaking "symbolically"??
NO. He turns to the Twelve and says:
John 6:67
Do YOU also want to leave?

This marks the ONLY yime in the New Testament that Jesus's followers left Him for doctrinal reasons.

Was Jesus speaking literally?
Only a Biblical illiterate would conclude otherwise . . .

 

[ScottA]

There is always some Scripture that concludes a matter of debate in the church:

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

There is eternally secure salvation, just not unconditionally: there must be obedience to the faith. (Rom 1:5)

If we are to be raised together in the likeness of His resurrection, then we must walk together in the manner of His steps by obedience.

The forerunner of our salvation set the example of obedience, even unto the death of the cross.

Salvation begins the race of everlasting life by grace through faith, and ends in resurrection of life with obedience to the faith by grace. Without obedience, faith is dead, and grace cannot save through dead faith.

Once we cease obeying the faith, then we turn from the faith: a race half-run is as a cake half-turned.

The grace of God is given to the believer for help in time of need to overcome temptation, not to be excused in sin: no person sins under grace, with grace, nor graciously.

The grace of God is neither conditional nor unconditional, it is necessary for use in salvation. (Titus 3:14)

We either use it, or lose it. We must grow in grace by obedience, or fall from grace by rebellion.

If we reject the help of grace to overcome sin, then we despise the Spirit of grace for the sake of sin.

Those rejecting grace by willful disobedience to the Word of God are not under grace, but under condemnation:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

God is not a respecter of persons, excusing the sins of one while judging the same sins of another.

The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked.

Unconditional eternal security and obedience to the faith do not mix, no more than bitter water and sweet:

Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us.

Faith is the lump, obedience is the purge.

What you have described is not salvation, it's works...which saves no one.

With this you enslave people, whereas Christ has set us free...not free to sin, but free from it.

We are not saved by following exactly in the obedience that Christ achieved, but it is because of Him and His obedience rather, that we have achieved salvation [not in or by ourselves] but in Him.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

There ios NONE so blind as the one who refuses to see . . .

EVERY one of the phrases above in RED proves that our cooperation is necessary for our salvation.
"He who believes" requires that we remaoin faithful to the end. It's NOT referring to a one time, slam-dunk event.

As to the "eating" of the "Bread" of Life - your ignorance of language is your folly. This wasn't metaphorical or "symbolic "language - it was quite literal. For starters - the comparison of the Manna that came down from Heaven (v. 31) and Christ Himself who came down from Heaven (v. 33) refers to an actual, physucal realty.

The Jews freaked out because Jesus was telling them that they had to eat His flesh and drink His blood.
John 6:52
The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

Dis Jesus respond by explaining the "symbolism" as He always did when there was a question about a teaching? NO.
He saud:
John 6:53-56
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you EAT the flesh of the Son of Man and DRINK his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

It might interest you to know that Jesus does NOT use the usual term for human eating (Phagon) - but instead uses the word for the way an animal rips aprat and gnaws on his food (Trogon). As usual, He was using hyperbole to make His pount as He ofter did.

Later, when the crowd leaves Him to return to their former way of life (v. 66) - does He tell them that He was only speaking "symbolically"??
NO. He turns to the Twelve and says:
John 6:67
Do YOU also want to leave?

This marks the ONLY yime in the New Testament that Jesus's followers left Him for doctrinal reasons.

Was Jesus speaking literally?
Only a Biblical illiterate would conclude otherwise . . .

this is nonsense. So since you dont believe in OSAS, i assume you also dont believe in the doctrine of election?

 

[ScottA]

There ios NONE so blind as the one who refuses to see . . .

EVERY one of the phrases above in RED proves that our cooperation is necessary for our salvation.
"He who believes" requires that we remaoin faithful to the end. It's NOT referring to a one time, slam-dunk event.

As to the "eating" of the "Bread" of Life - your ignorance of language is your folly. This wasn't metaphorical or "symbolic "language - it was quite literal. For starters - the comparison of the Manna that came down from Heaven (v. 31) and Christ Himself who came down from Heaven (v. 33) refers to an actual, physucal realty.

The Jews freaked out because Jesus was telling them that they had to eat His flesh and drink His blood.
John 6:52
The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

Dis Jesus respond by explaining the "symbolism" as He always did when there was a question about a teaching? NO.
He saud:
John 6:53-56
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you EAT the flesh of the Son of Man and DRINK his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

It might interest you to know that Jesus does NOT use the usual term for human eating (Phagon) - but instead uses the word for the way an animal rips aprat and gnaws on his food (Trogon). As usual, He was using hyperbole to make His pount as He ofter did.

Later, when the crowd leaves Him to return to their former way of life (v. 66) - does He tell them that He was only speaking "symbolically"??
NO. He turns to the Twelve and says:
John 6:67
Do YOU also want to leave?

This marks the ONLY yime in the New Testament that Jesus's followers left Him for doctrinal reasons.

Was Jesus speaking literally?
Only a Biblical illiterate would conclude otherwise . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

this is nonsense. So since you dont believe in OSAS, i assume you also dont believe in the doctrine of election?

All depends on your definition.

If you mean Calvin's invented doctrine of "Unconditional" Election - then no. The Bible doesn't teach this.
The Bible teaches that oir response to God's calling is necessary for our salvation.
The Calvinist fallacy that only a select few are called or that Jesus only died for certain people is UNBIBLICAL . . .

John 3:16
For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only Son, that WHOEVER believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 Tim. 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires ALL PEOPLE to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[BreadOfLife]

A reasoned response would be better but I ubderstand the sad face if you don't believe.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

All depends on your definition.

If you mean Calvin's invented doctrine of "Unconditional" Election - then no. The Bible doesn't teach this.
The Bible teaches that oir response to God's calling is necessary for our salvation.
The Calvinist fallacy that only a select few are called or that Jesus only died for certain people is UNBIBLICAL . . .

John 3:16
For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only Son, that WHOEVER believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 Tim. 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires ALL PEOPLE to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

calvin didnt invent anything, he merely gave a defined term for what the Bible says. Calvinism IS Biblical. You have No say in your salvation, you cant work your way to salvation, and once saved, forever more are you saved. How do we know this to be truth? Because john wrote 1 john so that we would have assurance. We werent meant to doubt or second guess our salvation.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What you have described is not salvation, it's works...which saves no one.

With this you enslave people, whereas Christ has set us free...not free to sin, but free from it.

We are not saved by following exactly in the obedience that Christ achieved, but it is because of Him and His obedience rather, that we have achieved salvation [not in or by ourselves] but in Him.

We must STRIVE to be perfect (Matt. 5:48).
Jesus's perfection makes up for our imperfection.

 

[BreadOfLife]

calvin didnt invent anything, he merely gave a defined term for what the Bible says. Calvinism IS Biblical. You have No say in your salvation, you cant work your way to salvation, and once saved, forever more are you saved. How do we know this to be truth? Because john wrote 1 john so that we would have assurance. We werent meant to doubt or second guess our salvation.

WRONG.
He invented his 5 Point theologicak fallacy that waas newver taught for 1500 years until he did.

The falsehood that you have NO say in your slavtion completely foes against what the Bible teaches. Earlier, I presented over a dozen verses that speak directly to this fact - and I've never had a Calvinist refute those verses. All they do us dance around them with cherry-picked verses takes OUT of context.
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Explain OSAS in light of the fact that how [eople with an EPIGNODSIS of Christ is warned that they can LOSE they security (Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-22.

 

[ScottA]

We must STRIVE to be perfect (Matt. 5:48).
Jesus's perfection makes up for our imperfection.

Yes.

The problem that results in the confusion regarding who it is that is completely responsible for salvation, is that Jesus, and the apostles, including Paul, preached to "this generation" during that time of transition from Israel to that "other fold" that He must also bring. It is not that the scriptures do not include both narratives--they do. But they are commonly selectively considered, rather than "rightly divided."

And it is not that we cannot benefit from those things that were preached to Israel for Israel. But this why Jesus said, "let the dead bury the dead." Israel are "the dead in Christ", of whom Jesus was "the Last." All of which Jesus spoke to, saying, "So the last will be first, and the first last." None of which should be combined, except by Jesus "in the clouds." But here and now, the two narratives must be "rightly divided."

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

WRONG.
He invented his 5 Point theologicak fallacy that waas newver taught for 1500 years until he did.

The falsehood that you have NO say in your slavtion completely foes against what the Bible teaches. Earlier, I presented over a dozen verses that speak directly to this fact - and I've never had a Calvinist refute those verses. All they do us dance around them with cherry-picked verses takes OUT of context.
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Explain OSAS in light of the fact that how [eople with an EPIGNODSIS of Christ is warned that they can LOSE they security (Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-22.

if you dont see that you are basing your salvation on works alone, you’re just as blind as the other wackydoodles on here

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Charles spurgeon “ I would hardly give a penny for any salvation that i could lose.”

 

[BreadOfLife]

if you dont see that you are basing your salvation on works alone, you’re just as blind as the other wackydoodles on here

And this is presicely the type pf anti=Catholic LIE thgat I am here to expose.

NOWHERE in the Catechism of the Catholic Church are we taught that we are saved BY our works.
The works that God Himself prepared for us in adcance to do as followersa of Chriat (Eph. 2:10) are an essential element of faith.

If YOU believe that faith is simply belief - then you are NO better poff than the demons, who also believe(James 2:19).
Faith requires Belief + Trust + Obedience - ALL working in Love (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal 5:6, Matt. 25:21-46).

If your "faith" is missing those ingredients - then it is NOT faith.

Charles spurgeon “ I would hardly give a penny for any salvation that i could lose.”

Spirgeonj was wrong about a LOT of things besides OSAS.
On the otheer hand - Jesus wasa wrong about NOTHING . . .

Jesus Christ: You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned?
It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot (Matt. 5:13).

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

And this is presicely the type pf anti=Catholic LIE thgat I am here to expose.

NOWHERE in the Catechism of the Catholic Church are we taught that we are saved BY our works.
The works that God Himself prepared for us in adcance to do as followersa of Chriat (Eph. 2:10) are an essential element of faith.

If YOU believe that faith is simply belief - then you are NO better poff than the demons, who also believe(James 2:19).
Faith requires Belief + Trust + Obedience - ALL working in Love (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal 5:6, Matt. 25:21-46).

If your "faith" is missing those ingredients - then it is NOT faith.

Spirgeonj was wrong about a LOT of things besides OSAS.
On the otheer hand - Jesus wasa wrong about NOTHING . . .

Jesus Christ: You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned?
It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot (Matt. 5:13).

spurgeon was wrong about a lot of things?? Yea, you just went on to the wackydoodle list.

 

[BreadOfLife]

spurgeon was wrong about a lot of things?? Yea, you just went on to the wackydoodle list.

Sooooo, instead of giving a reasoned Biblical response to my Biblical argument - you put Spurgeon's words above those of Christ Himself youth of Christ himself.
Thank you for exposing your ignorance.

My work here is done.

 

[Marymog]

No. I do not believe in hocus pocus. The CC has materialized the spiritual. In your mass, you actually worship a pancake (wafer) made by nuns. Efficacious salvation to the dead, your false prayers for the dead in a false purgatory. No matter how many candles you burn your priest cannot save someone from hell. To say I'm not worried about being dammed as stated in the council of Trent is an understatement. I feel sorry for you.

Show me where The Church teaches that candles and priest save Catholics from hell and I will join your cult.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

A profession of faith doesnt justify anybody. Its the possession of faith that justifies. - R. C. Sproul.

 

[TEXBOW]

Show me where The Church teaches that candles and priest save Catholics from hell and I will join your cult.

Professing to be Christ's representative here on earth, confessions. The Catholic Church has changed it positions many times. I think they actually believe in hell now but not positive. A side trip to Purgatory so the Church can contribute to their journey use to be a thing. Not sure what they believe this month.

 

[Marymog]

Professing to be Christ's representative here on earth, confessions. The Catholic Church has changed it positions many times. I think they actually believe in hell now but not positive. A side trip to Purgatory so the Church can contribute to their journey use to be a thing. Not sure what they believe this month.

You crack me up.....

 

[TEXBOW]

You crack me up.....

I mostly like getting under your skin. I'm just playful like that.