Secure Eternal Salvation

[Eternally Grateful]

which death
Physical death or spiritual death?

and when he say the flesh is week he is referring to fallen human nature not His body, his body crucified is our salvation

we all die physically so it must refer to spiritual death and life

And eternal life of grace

well lets see

Jesus compared the bread he came to give to the manna

he said your fathers ate manna and are dead.

he who eats this will live forever.

Yet we know that the people who ate this 2000 years agao still died physically?

So what else could he be talking about except for spiritual life.

Eternal life is passing from life to death (being born again) and that spiritual life lasting eternally or forever.

i am wondering why you all have not listened to me. I have stated this so many times i lost count.. Yet you still ask me the same old questions.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

no it’s not the levitical priesthood nor the royal priesthood but the priesthood according to the order of Melchizedek and his priesthood and sacrifice is eternal, he offered it once bloody on the cross but for all eternity he continues to offer it as high priest and his low priests also offer it as a pure offering, and unbloody sacrifice, a clean oblation

Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

What did the author of Hebrews say?

22 And according to the law almost all things purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

He died one. That sacrifice is what redeems us. there is no redemption in any other name.

the levitical priest did it over and over because the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin, But jesus, he died once and now sits at the right hand of God making intercession because his blood was sufficient.

Jesus said, whoever eats this bread will LIVE FOREVER,

why don;t you believe him?

 

[theefaith]

well lets see

Jesus compared the bread he came to give to the manna

he said your fathers ate manna and are dead.

he who eats this will live forever.

Yet we know that the people who ate this 2000 years agao still died physically?

So what else could he be talking about except for spiritual life.

Eternal life is passing from life to death (being born again) and that spiritual life lasting eternally or forever.

i am wondering why you all have not listened to me. I have stated this so many times i lost count.. Yet you still ask me the same old questions.

cos you confuse grace

eternal life in Christ by grace which you can lose by sin or by denying Christ and the faith

 

[Eternally Grateful]

cos you confuse grace

eternal life in Christ by grace which you can lose by sin or by denying Christ and the faith

Grace is unmerited favor.

if you can lose it, it is not grace. it is called works.

You do not understand grace or what it means, Your the one confusing grace with works my friend.

eternal (forever) life means living forever. if it can be lost. its NOT eternal life. we would call that conditional life.

When people take the words eternal, never, forever and make them into something other than eternal never and forever. something is wrong..

 

[theefaith]

Grace is unmerited favor.

if you can lose it, it is not grace. it is called works.

You do not understand grace or what it means, Your the one confusing grace with works my friend.

eternal (forever) life means living forever. if it can be lost. its NOT eternal life. we would call that conditional life.

When people take the words eternal, never, forever and make them into something other than eternal never and forever. something is wrong..

grace is God’s life! Eternal life in those who are baptized

you can lose it

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

grace united us to Christ the mediator in the church, the communion of God with His saints

Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,

brought to life by grace!
Baptism is the initiation into the new covenant of grace

 

[Eternally Grateful]

grace is God’s life! Eternal life in those who are baptized

you can lose it

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

grace united us to Christ the mediator in the church, the communion of God with His saints

Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,

brought to life by grace!
Baptism is the initiation into the new covenant of grace

then its not ETERNAL LIFE, its CONDITIONAL LIFE.

And it is NOT OF GRACE, it is OF WORKS.

You can spin it all you want my friend. I must take the words by definition by what they mean in every case they are used. Not by what you want to mean by making the words religious terms, which are different than their definitions in every other case.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I never said it was
and considering you and I have had this conversation numerous times. It just goes to prove you only hear what you want to hear.
Eternal life in John 6 is about spiritual life. Whoever eats will not die.
You continually eat over and over this bread. Yet you can still die.

That's becayse YOU and so many other like you don't understanf the Biblicak teaching that salvations is CONDITIONAL on our cooperation.

John 6:47 says:
"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes HAS eternal life."

What happens to thoise ewho STOP believing? Do they STILL have eternal life??
NOT according to othe followoing verses . . .
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's becayse YOU and so many other like you don't understanf the Biblicak teaching that salvations is CONDITIONAL on our cooperation.

John 6:47 says:
"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes HAS eternal life."

What happens to thoise ewho STOP believing? Do they STILL have eternal life??
NOT according to othe followoing verses . . .
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

Thats because YOU want GRACE to be earned by WORKS

and because YOU want the word ETERNAL to mean anything other than ETERNAL. In fact. You preach CONDITIONAL LIFE. Not ETERNAL LIFE

If I HAVE eternal life.it means literally I will LIVE FOREVER.

according to you I can NEVER have eternal life in this lifetime..

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

That's becayse YOU and so many other like you don't understanf the Biblicak teaching that salvations is CONDITIONAL on our cooperation.

John 6:47 says:
"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes HAS eternal life."

What happens to thoise ewho STOP believing? Do they STILL have eternal life??
NOT according to othe followoing verses . . .
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

you have NOTHING to do with your salvation, only the Father can call you to salvation. Unless He does that, you’ll never have a desire to be saved.
Also, you cant lose your salvation, if a person stops believing, its because they were never saved to begin with.
This may help you understand salvation a bit better;
UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
Also known as “sovereign election,” this is the teaching that God’s rescuing of sinners is entirely due to His own will and good pleasure (Ephesians 1:5). Salvation is not brought about in any way by our actions or decisions. Remember, Scripture teaches that we are spiritually dead. Because of this we cannot and will not turn towards God on our own. Instead, it is God who elects believers to salvation (Romans 8:28-30). He does this based solely on His grace and not our works (2 Timothy 1:9).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thats because YOU want GRACE to be earned by WORKS

and because YOU want the word ETERNAL to mean anything other than ETERNAL. In fact. You preach CONDITIONAL LIFE. Not ETERNAL LIFE

If I HAVE eternal life.it means literally I will LIVE FOREVER.

according to you I can NEVER have eternal life in this lifetime..

No - I want what the Bible teachs - and it teaches that salvation can be UNDONE by MY own doing (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

By the way - you dodged my question regarding John 6:47:
"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes HAS eternal life."

What happens to thoise ewho STOP believing?
Do they STILL have eternal life??

 

[BreadOfLife]

you have NOTHING to do with your salvation, only the Father can call you to salvation. Unless He does that, you’ll never have a desire to be saved.
Also, you cant lose your salvation, if a person stops believing, its because they were never saved to begin with.
This may help you understand salvation a bit better;
UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
Also known as “sovereign election,” this is the teaching that God’s rescuing of sinners is entirely due to His own will and good pleasure (Ephesians 1:5). Salvation is not brought about in any way by our actions or decisions. Remember, Scripture teaches that we are spiritually dead. Because of this we cannot and will not turn towards God on our own. Instead, it is God who elects believers to salvation (Romans 8:28-30). He does this based solely on His grace and not our works (2 Timothy 1:9).

This is absolutely false.
The Biblie repeatedly warns that you CAN lose your security by your OWN doing.

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.


John 6:47 says:
"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes HAS eternal life."

What happens to thoise ewho STOP believing? Do they STILL have eternal life??

 

[theefaith]

then its not ETERNAL LIFE, its CONDITIONAL LIFE.

And it is NOT OF GRACE, it is OF WORKS.

You can spin it all you want my friend. I must take the words by definition by what they mean in every case they are used. Not by what you want to mean by making the words religious terms, which are different than their definitions in every other case.

Lk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Lk 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matt 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

faith alone?????????

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No - I want what the Bible teachs - and it teaches that salvation can be UNDONE by MY own doing (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

By the way - you dodged my question regarding John 6:47:
"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes HAS eternal life."

What happens to thoise ewho STOP believing?
Do they STILL have eternal life??

Good luck with your conditional life

I will hold on to the ETERNAL life that I received.

You focus is on the wrong word. You need to focus on the word eternal. Eternal life is not some religious thing that can be earned, it is a gift given by God.

A person who does not believe is condemned ALREADY. (Ongoing) as the same author said.

The same author also said those who leave were never of us, because if they were of us they never owuld have left.

Who was he talking about? Those who deny Christ. Who are those who do not believe

Your either for Christ, or against him

There is no unbelief

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Lk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Lk 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matt 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

faith alone?????????

Dude, you can post a million verses. It does not negate that eternal life is forever. And when jesus said you will never die he means it

He does not contradict himself

You need to start listening to jesus and take him literally..

You want conditional life. Good luck. The jews that they had that too.. They will find out they could never earn it

Jesus said whoever eats this break will live forever

Take him at his word.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I have found that most people who reject calvinism do so because they cant accept that they have no part in getting saved. Those who reject the doctrine of election usually do reject OSAS. To them, the thought that they have no say, is more than they can handle. It stems from pride, the thought that just because they want something, they think they deserve it. Jesus warned against that.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Good luck with your conditional life

I will hold on to the ETERNAL life that I received.

You focus is on the wrong word. You need to focus on the word eternal. Eternal life is not some religious thing that can be earned, it is a gift given by God.

A person who does not believe is condemned ALREADY. (Ongoing) as the same author said.

The same author also said those who leave were never of us, because if they were of us they never owuld have left.

Who was he talking about? Those who deny Christ. Who are those who do not believe

Your either for Christ, or against him

There is no unbelief

Then YOU need to explain theoseverses that say you CAN lose your security by yourr OWN doing.

A person who does NOT believe IS condemned - as is the ones who ceases to believe and obey
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

They wewre written to BOEN AGAIN believers who had an "Epignosis" of Jesus.
Epignosis is used only 15 times in the Bible and id defined as a full, esperiential and relational knowledge - not unlike a marriage.

Explain . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have found that most people who reject calvinism do so because they cant accept that they have no part in getting saved. Those who reject the doctrine of election usually do reject OSAS. To them, the thought that they have no say, is more than they can handle. It stems from pride, the thought that just because they want something, they think they deserve it. Jesus warned against that.

No - it's because the Bible doesn't teach this nonsense.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

No - it's because the Bible doesn't teach this nonsense.

actually it does. It teaches every point of calvinism.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then YOU need to explain theoseverses that say you CAN lose your security by yourr OWN doing.

A person who does NOT believe IS condemned - as is the ones who ceases to believe and obey
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

They wewre written to BOEN AGAIN believers who had an "Epignosis" of Jesus.
Epignosis is used only 15 times in the Bible and id defined as a full, esperiential and relational knowledge - not unlike a marriage.

Explain . . .

Good luck my friend.

John 6:

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will,but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead.50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

If I were you I would stop eating the wafer, and eat the true living bread of life. Then you will not die.

Continue to eat the bread that you are eating, and you will die. Because the bread you are eating does NOT ENDURE to eternal life. If it did. You would not have to keep eating it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

actually it does. It teaches every point of calvinism.

Actually, it doesn't.
That's why it's called "Calvinism" and not "Biblicism" because it was invented by the man, John Calvin - not the Bible.

Of the Five Points of Calvinism (T.U.L.I.P.) - the ONLY one that is even remotely Biblically sound is the "T" Total Depravity.