Why was there a reformation?

[Wrangler]

What's worse? The world isn't a better place these 2000+ years A.D.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

There is a lot of good in this world as evidenced by 8 BILLION people living in it. Not only are there about 80x more people alive today than when Christ walked the Earth, the standard of living is better again ... wait for it ... IN EVERY MEASURABLE WAY. If this is not good, the word has no useful meaning.

View attachment 17951

 

[Pythagorean12]

Way off topic to counter your perspective. I'll go with what you posted; we'll have to agree to disagree.
Billions of us walking earth doesn't make it a better world.
Our "standard of living" is destroying us and this world.
Just to point ho those two factors you referenced as evidence this is a better world 2000+ years A.D.

 

[Pythagorean12]

oh wow. Ok, lets just start back at the beginning. Hey, its gonna be ok. So a unitarian believes that God the Father alone is God. So i am a presbyterian, and we believe in the Trinity. The Trinity is one God in three separate persons.
So heres another link which will help you understand what the Trinity is.
What does the Bible teach about the Trinity? | GotQuestions.org

The relief is, Jesus never taught the Trinity. "I and the father are one." Means, he is God.

Trinity is tri-theism. It's pagan.

Trinitarians don't realize God is creator of all. And all creation, as he says, is both of and from him.

Every atom, is of and from God. It's all God.
Therefore, there are not three separate and distinct person's. Because God is holy spirit. And as God tells us in John 1, God is Jesus.
Every atom in the Jewish "man" named Immanuel, Jesus, was of and from God.
In the beginning was the word. And the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Hear oh Israel our God is one.

"I and the father are one."

 

[Wrangler]

Billions of us walking earth doesn't make it a better world.
Our "standard of living" is destroying us and this world.

Nonsense. Billions living at a higher standard of living when there were only 1 million. IF the premise that more destroyed the world, the evidence would be people getting poorer, lower standard of living. STOP BELIEVING THE LEFTIST PROPAGANDA!

How many people do you know who are born in a barn these days? Having entertained your distraction, it does not mean we are not desperately in need of Christ. In fact, the better off people are materially, often they are worse off spiritually.

 

[Wrangler]

The relief is, Jesus never taught the Trinity. "I and the father are one." Means, he is God.

Absolutely not. To this day, it means being on the same page, not being the same being.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

The relief is, Jesus never taught the Trinity. "I and the father are one." Means, he is God.

Trinity is tri-theism. It's pagan.

Trinitarians don't realize God is creator of all. And all creation, as he says, is both of and from him.

Every atom, is of and from God. It's all God.
Therefore, there are not three separate and distinct person's. Because God is holy spirit. And as God tells us in John 1, God is Jesus.
Every atom in the Jewish "man" named Immanuel, Jesus, was of and from God.
In the beginning was the word. And the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Hear oh Israel our God is one.

"I and the father are one."

im not sure i follow you here. The Trinity is one God in three separate persons. Yet you disagree, but seem to agree? Im a bit confused where you stand.

 

[JohnPaul]

oh wow. Ok, lets just start back at the beginning. Hey, its gonna be ok. So a unitarian believes that God the Father alone is God. So i am a presbyterian, and we believe in the Trinity. The Trinity is one God in three separate persons.
So heres another link which will help you understand what the Trinity is.
What does the Bible teach about the Trinity? | GotQuestions.org

That makes no sense to me, that link, you name three separate entities or Deities, and yet you say it's only one God, plus the word Godhead doesn't even make sense to me, I can only believe and feel what is in my heart that Christ put there, God the Father and Christ his Son.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

That makes no sense to me, that link, you name three separate entities or Deities, and yet you say it's only one God, plus the word Godhead doesn't even make sense to me, I can only believe and feel what is in my heart that Christ put there, God the Father and Christ his Son.

this should help you out some. So yes, one God, three separate persons. So you have the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, all three are coexistent, and coequal. They have always existed, and always will. While they are coequal, each has a different responsibility.

God the Father is in control. Scripture says He is in charge. He planned our salvation. He has approved of our salvation because of Jesus’ death and resurrection and has transferred (past, completed event) us into the kingdom of His Son.

Jesus does the will of God the Father. His role is to serve God the Father. He is the Savior of the world, Lord of lords and King of Kings, who will reign forever.

The Holy Spirit’s role is to minister to Christians while we are here on this earth. He ministers to us in an extensive number of ways such as making us Christians (spiritual baptism into Christ’s body), sealing, indwelling, changing our character and giving us spiritual gifts.

I hope this helps. Im not sure of your age, but i get the feeling that this is the first time you’ve ever heard of the Trinity. If you’re looking for Bible verses, matthew 28:19, john 14:26, john 1:1-2. I hope this helps.

 

[JohnPaul]

this should help you out some. So yes, one God, three separate persons. So you have the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, all three are coexistent, and coequal. They have always existed, and always will. While they are coequal, each has a different responsibility.

God the Father is in control. Scripture says He is in charge. He planned our salvation. He has approved of our salvation because of Jesus’ death and resurrection and has transferred (past, completed event) us into the kingdom of His Son.

Jesus does the will of God the Father. His role is to serve God the Father. He is the Savior of the world, Lord of lords and King of Kings, who will reign forever.

The Holy Spirit’s role is to minister to Christians while we are here on this earth. He ministers to us in an extensive number of ways such as making us Christians (spiritual baptism into Christ’s body), sealing, indwelling, changing our character and giving us spiritual gifts.

I hope this helps. Im not sure of your age, but i get the feeling that this is the first time you’ve ever heard of the Trinity. If you’re looking for Bible verses, matthew 28:19, john 14:26, john 1:1-2. I hope this helps.

I was raised on the Trinity, I just believe in God the Father and his only begotten Son our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are two separate entities one Is God the creator of all that exists and Jesus his only begotten son who was sent to earth through the immaculate conception in human form to die for us and wash the sins of the world with his blood so that those of us who repent and believe in him shall be saved and have eternal life everlasting.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I was raised on the Trinity, I just believe in God the Father and his only begotten Son our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are two separate entities one Is God the creator of all that exists and Jesus his only begotten son who was sent to earth through the immaculate conception in human form to die for us and wash the sins of the world with his blood so that those of us who repent and believe in him shall be saved and have eternal life everlasting.

so you dont believe in the Holy Spirit?? Or that Jesus existed during the OT??

 

[theefaith]

Exactly. The bickering over doctrine would be funny if people weren't so hateful over it.

how different is scripture on this issue
Eph 4:5 one lord one faith one baptism

truth must be revealed by God and propound or our belief by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 Jude 1:3

You can accept or reject the Christian faith and Christ but you cannot make you’re own faith or doctrine, those are all tradition of men false sects and false doctrines
FACAGA and Ba are false doctrine

Unity of faith!

The new covenant unity:
Union with Christ the mediator and communion with God and the saints is based on “unity of faith”

“Thee faith” of the new covenant that all must believe without any error, false or strange doctrines foreign to “thee faith” of the new covenant!

“Thee faith” is found 31 times in the New Testament!

Obedience of faith: rom 16:26

Ephesians 4
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. ...

Romans 12:16
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Romans 15:6
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 13:11
Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Philippians 1:27
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Philippians 2:2
Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

1 Peter 3:8
Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism

2 Timothy 4:7
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

One church founded by Jesus Christ!

there is only one!
One God!
One Lord!
One savior!
One faith!
One new covenant!
One kingdom!
One household of faith!
One vineyard!
One church! (Not thousands of sects All teaching different doctrines all on the Bible alone, by the tradition of men)
Only Christ has authority to found the new covenant church! Matt 16:18-19
One shepherd one fold Jn 10:16
1 Tim 3:15 pillar and ground of truth
All men must be taught by the church!

Truth is revealed by God, fully by Christ, and must be proposed for our belief by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 one faith

Unity of faith!

Four Marks of the True Church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church!

The church is One:

Isaiah 9:7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Isa 22:21-22

21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. (Matt 16:18-19)

Dan 2:44
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32-33 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.


Mt 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

John 17:17-23
that they may be one as we are one.

Romans 12:5
so we, who are many, are one body in Christ.

Rom 15:6

1 Corinthians 1:10
I appeal to you... that there be no dissensions among you, but that
you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

1 Corinthians 12:12
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13
by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.

1 Corinthians 12:20
But now are they many members, yet but one body.

Eph 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Colossians 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were
called in the one body.

Philippians 1:27
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Philippians 2:2
be of same the mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of
one mind.


The church is Holy:


The church is Holy because Her founder is God, and Holy is His name.

She is the spotless bride of Christ.

1 Timothy 3:15
know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

Colossians 1:18
And he [Jesus] is the head of the body, the church.

1 Peter 2:9-10
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people
belonging to God... Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.


The church is Catholic: (universal)

Jn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jn 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Jn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Matt 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matt 13:38
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

 

[theefaith]

Matt 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matt 28:18-20
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Mark 16:15-16
And he said to them, Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Jn 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Jn 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Jn 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

Jn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Jn 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Jn 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world...

Jn 12:47

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world

Jn 16:12-13
I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them
now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

2 cor 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us (the whole world) to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

World = Universal = Catholic


The church is Apostolic:


Matthew 16:18-10
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Luke 22:28-30
You [the apostles] are those who have continued with me in my trials; and I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

John 15:16
You [the apostles] did not choose me, but I [Jesus] chose you and appointed
you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide...

Matthew 28:16,18-20
Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee... And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore
and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them [the apostles] again, Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

Ephesians 2:19-20
... but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.

Acts 1:
Matthias replaces Judas who had the ministry of apostle.

Heb 3:11 Acts 1:
Jesus is an apostle, the apostles are already in succession to Him, they in turn would have successors.






Christians must be instructed in “the faith”!

Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31
Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15 matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4
Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18
matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Isa 22:21-22
eph 2:20

Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ...

The one true church’s teaching authority from Christ is without error!

A divine institution: founded by Christ on Peter and the holy apostles and their successors unto the end!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!

Christ and His church are one! Jn 15:1-5 Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Church has authority from Christ!

Church is free from all error!

Mt 16:18 & mt 18:18 Mt 28:19-20

Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16

Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5

Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

The one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is an extension church of Christ’s ministry of redemption to the whole world and all time!

Christ perpetuates his mission, power, and authority in the holy church!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Truth is revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles) Jude 1:3 then proposed by the church! Matt 28:19

Christ and His church are one!

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 fulfilled in matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Matt 18:17 hear the truth from the church
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

Faith ascents & never protests or rebels!
Spiritual Pride protests & is always in rebellion

The nature of spiritual pride is rebellion!
Spiritual pride must protest, and must be right!

Christ and His one true church cannot be right or my self-righteous personal interpretation base on spiritual pride and private judgement must be wrong, and that is unacceptable!

Truth must be revealed by God, and taught by the church, proposed for our belief, we must be instructed!
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 Lk 10:16 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42


Nature of doctrine:

Truth or doctrine MUST be Revealed by God And Proposed by the church for belief, not spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
Claim: “scripture alone”
It’s really just the ugly repugnant pride!
It’s no faith at all only spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
They Hope in creatures not in God!

It is unlawful to refuse to accept a truth revealed by God!

Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truth matters! It is revealed by God and therefore CANNOT be changed!
The church likewise is founded by Christ and therefore CANNOT be reformed!

 

[theefaith]

I would never deny the divinity of Christ, I would rather die an excruciating death than deny our Lord. You forget me and who I was, I’ve been baptized in your Church!

just making sure thanks

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Matt 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matt 28:18-20
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Mark 16:15-16
And he said to them, Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Jn 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Jn 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Jn 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

Jn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Jn 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Jn 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world...

Jn 12:47

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world

Jn 16:12-13
I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them
now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

2 cor 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us (the whole world) to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

World = Universal = Catholic


The church is Apostolic:


Matthew 16:18-10
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Luke 22:28-30
You [the apostles] are those who have continued with me in my trials; and I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

John 15:16
You [the apostles] did not choose me, but I [Jesus] chose you and appointed
you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide...

Matthew 28:16,18-20
Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee... And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore
and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them [the apostles] again, Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

Ephesians 2:19-20
... but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.

Acts 1:
Matthias replaces Judas who had the ministry of apostle.

Heb 3:11 Acts 1:
Jesus is an apostle, the apostles are already in succession to Him, they in turn would have successors.






Christians must be instructed in “the faith”!

Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31
Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15 matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4
Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18
matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Isa 22:21-22
eph 2:20

Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ...

The one true church’s teaching authority from Christ is without error!

A divine institution: founded by Christ on Peter and the holy apostles and their successors unto the end!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!

Christ and His church are one! Jn 15:1-5 Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Church has authority from Christ!

Church is free from all error!

Mt 16:18 & mt 18:18 Mt 28:19-20

Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16

Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5

Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

The one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is an extension church of Christ’s ministry of redemption to the whole world and all time!

Christ perpetuates his mission, power, and authority in the holy church!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Truth is revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles) Jude 1:3 then proposed by the church! Matt 28:19

Christ and His church are one!

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 fulfilled in matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Matt 18:17 hear the truth from the church
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

Faith ascents & never protests or rebels!
Spiritual Pride protests & is always in rebellion

The nature of spiritual pride is rebellion!
Spiritual pride must protest, and must be right!

Christ and His one true church cannot be right or my self-righteous personal interpretation base on spiritual pride and private judgement must be wrong, and that is unacceptable!

Truth must be revealed by God, and taught by the church, proposed for our belief, we must be instructed!
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 Lk 10:16 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42


Nature of doctrine:

Truth or doctrine MUST be Revealed by God And Proposed by the church for belief, not spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
Claim: “scripture alone”
It’s really just the ugly repugnant pride!
It’s no faith at all only spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
They Hope in creatures not in God!

It is unlawful to refuse to accept a truth revealed by God!

Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truth matters! It is revealed by God and therefore CANNOT be changed!
The church likewise is founded by Christ and therefore CANNOT be reformed!

there he goes again. Copy and paste, rinse, repeat. You’re going on ignore, dude. Aint nobody got time to read that in every one of your responses.

 

[theefaith]

Saying it over and over again does not make is true. Where is your Scriptural evidence?



You are comparing a State official AS EQUAL to a member of body of Christ?

both are prime minister under kings administers of the kingdom

Matt 16:18-19 keys of jurisdictional authority over the entire church in earth the same authority taken from the successors of Moses in matt 23 that Jesus commanded that it be obeyed, and it still must be obeyed


The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Truth is revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles) Jude 1:3 then proposed by the church! Matt 28:19

Christ and His church are one!

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 fulfilled in matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Matt 18:17 hear the truth from the church
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

Faith ascents & never protests or rebels!
Spiritual Pride protests & is always in rebellion

The nature of spiritual pride is rebellion!
Spiritual pride must protest, and must be right!

Christ and His one true church cannot be right or my self-righteous personal interpretation base on spiritual pride and private judgement must be wrong, and that is unacceptable!

Truth must be revealed by God, and taught by the church, proposed for our belief, we must be instructed!
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 Lk 10:16 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42


Nature of doctrine:

Truth or doctrine MUST be Revealed by God And Proposed by the church for belief, not spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
Claim: “scripture alone”
It’s really just the ugly repugnant pride!
It’s no faith at all only spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
They Hope in creatures not in God!

It is unlawful to refuse to accept a truth revealed by God!

Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truth matters! It is revealed by God and therefore CANNOT be changed!
The church likewise is founded by Christ and therefore CANNOT be reformed!

Faith hope and charity! 1 cor 13:13
Three are eternal, and the greatest is charity!
“Faith alone”? Never faith, hope, & charity are inseparable!
If salvation was by faith alone then the greatest would be faith, but as even “all faith“ without charity avails nothing! 1 cor 13:2


Is the New Testament included in the “Bible alone”?

Please explain how the church of Jesus Christ existed before the New Testament, the church taught and believed before the New Testament with the same authority of Christ!

Church of the apostles has the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

The church wrote the New Testament, the church gathered the cannon of scripture, the church alone has authority to say what is, and what is not scripture and to give the authoritative interpretation or meaning of scripture!

Not spiritual pride & self-righteous private judgement!

The real truth is the church cannot be right or you’re private judgement is wrong!

Saul saul:

A fundamentalist going by spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement from scripture, or the humility to hear the teaching of Christ through the church of His apostles?
Obedience of faith: rom 16:26
We must be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life. Jn 14:6
Instructed: Lk 1:4 acts 8:31
Teach all nations: Matt 28:19
He who hears you (the apostles) hears me: lk 10:16
Hear the church: Matt 18:17
Church is the pillar and ground of truth: 1 Tim 3:14
Christ and his church are one, the church is an extension of Christ through the whole world and all time: acts 9:4

Not scripture plus private judgement

But guided by the teaching office of Christ and his church!

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

 

[JohnPaul]

so you dont believe in the Holy Spirit?? Or that Jesus existed during the OT??

When God said Let Us, he was talking to his son was he not?

The Holy Spirit I’m still learning, to me it is the joy we carry in us having accepted Christ as our Savior.

 

[Pythagorean12]

im not sure i follow you here. The Trinity is one God in three separate persons. Yet you disagree, but seem to agree? Im a bit confused where you stand.

You misunderstand.

Trinity is a pagan concept, not a biblical Christ taught one.

Those who wrongly think of God as three separate beings are misled by the enemy who fractures truth with that lie.

God is a,the, holy spirit. That's not two, that's one God, oh Israel. Our God, our God is one.
Emmanuel the Christ, Jesus, through the Greek translations, was fully God. Because all that exists is of and from holy spirit.
In the beginning God created....

Then God created Adam and Eve in God's image and likeness.
Which is where people go wrong thinking that means God is a person.

He formed them from the dust. That God created in the beginning when he made the heavens and the earth.
Even the male pronoun is man made. But further leads to the falsehood that God is a male person.

The truth is in scripture. When we die our flesh returns to the dust from whence it sprang.

And our soul to God, who gave it. As when he breathed into Adam and Adam then became a living man.

The breath of God gives life.

God is a word that encapsulates the power and infinite omnipresence of Holy Spirit.

One God. Not three.
God is not divided.

Matthew15:9 "In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”
What Does the Bible Say About God Is Not Divided?

 

[Wrangler]

Exactly. The bickering over doctrine would be funny if people weren't so hateful over it.

how different is scripture on this issue

I'm about ready to put you on ignore with that post. Scripture is NOT different on this issue! See Roman 14:1, 13. See James 4:11-12

Yes. we have one faith - in WHO, not WHAT. We have faith in Jesus, not your man-made doctrines. As someone observed yesterday, you are a good and devout Catholic but not a Christian.

 

[Wrangler]

Saying it over and over again does not make is true. Where is your Scriptural evidence?

You are comparing a State official AS EQUAL to a member of body of Christ?

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

Say hello to my ignore list.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

When God said Let Us, he was talking to his son was he not?

The Holy Spirit I’m still learning, to me it is the joy we carry in us having accepted Christ as our Savior.

im assuming you’re talking about Genesis when God said let us, and the Father was talking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit. And no, the Holy Spirit isnt the joy you feel. The Holy Spirit was sent to us as Jesus ascended into Heaven. You denying the Holy Spirit is not good. You need to read up on Him and accept Him quickly. Without the Holy Spirit living in you, you cannot be saved.