I have a question that remains unanswered:

[Waiting on him]

Acts 2:2-4 KJV
[2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. [3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. [4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

this can be none other than the breath of life, Jesus having been the first to receive.

 

[theefaith]

False teachers, false christs and false doctrines do not like simple - they like twist, complicate and adulterate the Scriptures.

that’s why Christ provided the teaching authority of the apostles without the possibility of error Jn 16:13 matt 28:19

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus was created, the very first creation by Jehovah Rev 3:14 He is the firstborn of every creature, in fact of all creation Col 1:15. Jesus is begotten, which means having been fathered. Jesus is referred to as the only-begotten son of God, among all of God's sons, because he was created by Jehovah's hands only since nothing else existed other than Jehovah. The rest of God's sons were made, not created which means designed, by Jesus as Jehovah's master worker Pro 8:30. When God chose to create man, he was personally speaking with Jesus at Gen 1:26 where He said Let us make man in our image.

Jesus was not immortal prior to completing his assignment and returning to heaven. And although many people think that Jehovah, Jesus, and the holy spirit make up one God, Jesus didn't even have holy spirit until his return to heaven Acts 2:33

Have you ever read the Gospels??? Obviously you missed some things.

And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him(Jesus). I did not know Him(Jesus), but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him(Jesus), this is He/JESUS who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

John the Baptist was a True Witness of God - He spoke the Truth and seen the Truth with his own eyes.
Anyone who denies Christ, which have you done, is a false witness.

The true witnesses of Jehovah are the Witnesses of JESUS.

you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Rev 3:14 He is the firstborn of every creature, in fact of all creation

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Given unto Him is “the preeminence” in looking up preeminence it is “Chief”, “Head” could be “High Priest”, exalted above every other name. “The preeminence” above all …kind of gives more clarity to Revelation 22:13 and
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: [10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; [11] And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
‘that in all things he might have the preeminence’

 

[Waiting on him]

Have you ever read the Gospels??? Obviously you missed some things.

And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him(Jesus). I did not know Him(Jesus), but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him(Jesus), this is He/JESUS who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

John the Baptist was a True Witness of God - He spoke the Truth and seen the Truth with his own eyes.
Anyone who denies Christ, which have you done, is a false witness.

The true witnesses of Jehovah are the Witnesses of JESUS.

you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

So if Jesus at His baptism is God, how could He be without the Spirit?

 

[David in NJ]

that’s why Christ provided the teaching authority of the apostles without the possibility of error Jn 16:13 matt 28:19

Well if you are speaking of the Twelve Apostles (Paul replaced Judas who never was an apostle) then you are correct.

If you assume, on your own, that there are chosen apostles today that have the same say as the Twelve - you are in error.

Stay with Peter, Paul and John = the faithul Witnesses of JESUS = JESUS is Jehovah = the I AM who spoke to Moses.

Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all time handed down to the saints. For certain people have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into indecent behavior and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

So if Jesus at His baptism is God, how could He be without the Spirit?

Excellent question my Friend - please allow God to give you the answer from His Word.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross.

When the Eternal Son was sent, in the flesh as a man, by the Eternal Father he emptied Himself of the Holy Spirit.

But notice in how quickly the Holy Spirit finds IT's Resting Place in the Son.

The Son came to earth and the Holy Spirit came to the Son.

Then John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him. I myself did not know Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.” John 1:32-34

Beware of false witnesses who claim to be jehovah witnesses - they change Scripture and lie to entrap you, for they themselves are trapped and cannot escape the spirit of error they are under - unless God grants them repentance unto the Truth.

 

[Brakelite]

Amen Brother.
Let us dine on the Bread of Life together - The Word.
By the word of God we know they did not call the Pre-incarnate Jesus by the name of Michael, since Michael is a created angel and one of the untold numbers of angels that worship our Lord Jesus Christ.

For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.” - Hebrews 1:5-6

The Word tells us it is impossible for our LORD to be any angel.
Our Lord is from Eternity and is the One Elohim - Father Son Holy Spirit.

Check out the Thread:
One Eternal God in Three Persons- Look and SEE

So I agree with the above, except for...

By the word of God we know they did not call the Pre-incarnate Jesus by the name of Michael, since Michael is a created angel and one of the untold numbers of angels that worship our Lord Jesus Christ.

Which cannot be proved by the word.

 

[David in NJ]

So I agree with the above, except for...

Which cannot be proved by the word.

lol x100 , this is great - Did you not read the Scripture - which cannot lie - Hebrews 1:5-6

What cannot be proven is that Michael the angel, an angel, is our only LORD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.

It is impossible because no Scripture dares say such error.

Michael never rebuked satan - but said the LORD rebuke you - therefore Michael is not the Lord.

 

[theefaith]

Well if you are speaking of the Twelve Apostles (Paul replaced Judas who never was an apostle) then you are correct.

Judus was an apostle acts 1:17 and Mathias acts 1:26 replaced him


If you assume, on your own, that there are chosen apostles today that have the same say as the Twelve - you are in error.

Christ say so Jn 20:21-23

Stay with Peter, Paul and John = the faithul Witnesses of JESUS = JESUS is Jehovah = the I AM who spoke to Moses.

Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all time handed down to the saints. For certain people have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into indecent behavior and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Thee faith catholic and divine as required by Christ an article of faith must be proposed by the church. Matt 28:19-20

 

[Brakelite]

lol x100 , this is great - Did you not read the Scripture - which cannot lie - Hebrews 1:5-6

What cannot be proven is that Michael the angel, an angel, is our only LORD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.

It is impossible because no Scripture dares say such error.

Michael never rebuked satan - but said the LORD rebuke you - therefore Michael is not the Lord.

Except you haven't proved that the archangel... Michael... The Lord of hosts... Is a created angel. Notwithstanding his humility in allowing His Father the final say in rebuking Satan.
It was obviously not Jude's purpose to identify Michael, except to call attention to the fact that He is the archangel. (Head of the angels). His reference to Michael is really by way of contrast. This contrast is drawn between those who brought a railing accusation, and Michael who would not do so. On the one hand he contrasts those "filthy dreamers" who "despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities" (verse 8), with Michael, the archangel, on the other hand. He, a heavenly being, even when in dispute with the prince of evil, though there was just reason for doing so, "durst not" bring a railing accusation. This is the contrast: They, mere men, so despised authority as to rail against those in high authority; whereas Michael, the archangel, would not act thus even when disputing with Satan.

The devil, the prince of evil, could rightly be said to deserve a railing accusation, but to such a thing Michael would not stoop. To say that Michael could not, in the sense that He did not have the power or the authority to do so, would not be true. It is not that Michael could not, in the sense of being restricted, but rather that He would not take such an attitude. Scott's Bible remarks:

He yet dared not to utter any reviling expression: not from fear of the devil; but because even in those circumstances, it would not have been consistent with the perfection of his character.

What these carping critics dared to do, Michael would not do. They were abusive, defamatory, slanderous, even blasphemous. But Michael, even in dealing with the devil, revealed dignity and heavenly bearing. He could not descend to such a level of defamatory speech. Instead of multiplying words, He authoritatively declared, "The Lord rebuke thee" (verse 9).

The use of the expression "The Lord rebuke thee" is significant. It is found in but one other place in the Holy Scriptures—Zechariah 3:2. There the speaker is "the angel of the Lord" (verse 1); but in verse 2, it is expressly the "Lord" who speaks. Here we find the "angel of the Lord" equated with Jehovah Himself, and it is He who says to Satan, "The Lord rebuke thee."

This is a unique expression. The first Biblical use of it is by the Lord in dealing with Satan. The same expression is used in Jude. Might it not be, then, that the same Divine Being is revealed here? In Zechariah He was manifested under one of His titles, "the angel of the Lord," in Jude under another of His titles, "Michael."

 

[David in NJ]

Except you haven't proved that the archangel... Michael... The Lord of hosts... Is a created angel. Notwithstanding his humility in allowing His Father the final say in rebuking Satan.
It was obviously not Jude's purpose to identify Michael, except to call attention to the fact that He is the archangel. (Head of the angels). His reference to Michael is really by way of contrast. This contrast is drawn between those who brought a railing accusation, and Michael who would not do so. On the one hand he contrasts those "filthy dreamers" who "despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities" (verse 8), with Michael, the archangel, on the other hand. He, a heavenly being, even when in dispute with the prince of evil, though there was just reason for doing so, "durst not" bring a railing accusation. This is the contrast: They, mere men, so despised authority as to rail against those in high authority; whereas Michael, the archangel, would not act thus even when disputing with Satan.

The devil, the prince of evil, could rightly be said to deserve a railing accusation, but to such a thing Michael would not stoop. To say that Michael could not, in the sense that He did not have the power or the authority to do so, would not be true. It is not that Michael could not, in the sense of being restricted, but rather that He would not take such an attitude. Scott's Bible remarks:

He yet dared not to utter any reviling expression: not from fear of the devil; but because even in those circumstances, it would not have been consistent with the perfection of his character.

What these carping critics dared to do, Michael would not do. They were abusive, defamatory, slanderous, even blasphemous. But Michael, even in dealing with the devil, revealed dignity and heavenly bearing. He could not descend to such a level of defamatory speech. Instead of multiplying words, He authoritatively declared, "The Lord rebuke thee" (verse 9).

The use of the expression "The Lord rebuke thee" is significant. It is found in but one other place in the Holy Scriptures—Zechariah 3:2. There the speaker is "the angel of the Lord" (verse 1); but in verse 2, it is expressly the "Lord" who speaks. Here we find the "angel of the Lord" equated with Jehovah Himself, and it is He who says to Satan, "The Lord rebuke thee."

This is a unique expression. The first Biblical use of it is by the Lord in dealing with Satan. The same expression is used in Jude. Might it not be, then, that the same Divine Being is revealed here? In Zechariah He was manifested under one of His titles, "the angel of the Lord," in Jude under another of His titles, "Michael."

Notice the difference here - You spend all this time trying to prove something that is in complete error becuase you reject CLEAR Scripture that lays the foundation for understanding ALL Scripture.

CRYSTAL CLEAR = John chapter 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
Through Him(the Word) all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

You bypass this Foundation of Truth - therefore you err with a falsehood = The LORD is Not a created angel.

God's revelation to us starts with 1,2,3 = Father Son Holy Spirit = let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness

 

[BarneyFife]

You bypass this Foundation of Truth - therefore you err with a falsehood = The LORD is a created angel.

No one is saying the LORD is a created angel. This could be considered a straw man. :)

 

[BarneyFife]

Why is it they didn’t receive until Pentecost?

The consensus among many is that the Spirit was poured out not exclusively at Pentecost, but in special measure. :)

 

[Brakelite]

Amen Brother.
Let us dine on the Bread of Life together - The Word.
By the word of God we know they did not call the Pre-incarnate Jesus by the name of Michael, since Michael is a created angel and one of the untold numbers of angels that worship our Lord Jesus Christ.

For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.” - Hebrews 1:5-6

The Word tells us it is impossible for our LORD to be any angel.
Our Lord is from Eternity and is the One Elohim - Father Son Holy Spirit.

Check out the Thread:
One Eternal God in Three Persons- Look and SEE

lol x100 , this is great - Did you not read the Scripture - which cannot lie - Hebrews 1:5-6

What cannot be proven is that Michael the angel, an angel, is our only LORD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.

It is impossible because no Scripture dares say such error.

Michael never rebuked satan - but said the LORD rebuke you - therefore Michael is not the Lord.

Notice the difference here - You spend all this time trying to prove something that is in complete error becuase you reject CLEAR Scripture that lays the foundation for understanding ALL Scripture.

CRYSTAL CLEAR = John chapter 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
Through Him(the Word) all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

You bypass this Foundation of Truth - therefore you err with a falsehood = The LORD is a created angel.

God's revelation to us starts with 1,2,3 = Father Son Holy Spirit = let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness

No one is saying the LORD is a created angel. This could be considered a straw man.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
What I was going to say.

 

[Abaxvahl]

So if Jesus at His baptism is God, how could He be without the Spirit?

It doesn't say He is without the Spirit, and one must understand to understand the Trinitarian position is the immanent and economic Trinity. It is an old distinction and relevant to reading any Trinitarian text or doctrine. The distinction is this: the immanent Trinity is the life of God in Himself without reference to creation, the life that always was in eternity before creation. The economic is this: the oikonomia (dispensation, management, householding) of God's acting among us in time and place.

What you see at the Baptism of Jesus is an economic action of the Trinity, when Jesus sends the Spirit at Pentecost in time this is an economic action. St. John's Gospel begins with the immanent Trinity, and Jesus mentions the immanent life at various times throughout it such as "the glory I had with You before the world began," which is immanent, and then "glorify Your name [here in the Hour]" which is economic. "The Spirit Who proceeds from the Father" is immanent, but "receive the Holy Spirit, I send you the Holy Spirit" is economic.

The baptism does not imply Jesus was without the Spirit, neither does Pentecost. I am just posting this because the direction the thread is going is discussing these things without this distinction having been brought up, God bless.

 

[Brakelite]

@David in NJ
Please quote me where I have endeavored to show Jesus is an angel. Yes, I have revealed that there is evidence that 'Michael' is an old testament title for the Son of God, Jesus. But as I said in the very beginning,
there is no evidence in scripture which compels one to think that the archangel is is of necessitya created angel. The 'archangel', literal meaning 'head of the angels', otherwise entitled Lord of hosts, could be anything. A rock. A God. A man. Evidence shows all three.

 

[David in NJ]

No one is saying the LORD is a created angel. This could be considered a straw man. :)

MAJOR TYPO error - thank You

Should of been = The LORD is Not a created angel.

 

[David in NJ]

No one is saying the LORD is a created angel. This could be considered a straw man. :)

Typo error (left out 'Not' by accident) thank you Brother

Should of been: The LORD is Not a created angel.

 

[David in NJ]

@David in NJ
Please quote me where I have endeavored to show Jesus is an angel. Yes, I have revealed that there is evidence that 'Michael' is an old testament title for the Son of God, Jesus. But as I said in the very beginning,
there is no evidence in scripture which compels one to think that the archangel is is of necessitya created angel. The 'archangel', literal meaning 'head of the angels', otherwise entitled Lord of hosts, could be anything. A rock. A God. A man. Evidence shows all three.

We are not at war with each other but at war against heresy - the spirit of error is the enemy

"head of angels" does not come close to "Lord of Hosts"
The archangel Michael is a top ranking angel just as their are ranks in an army.
We do not know how many angels were created by the Son of God and how many are archangels.
IMHO - Gabriel is also a archangel - we do not know for certain = imho.

We, my Brother who loves the Lord Jesus Christ, we can never and should never add to "God's words or take away from them".
I am not perfect and through my growth in learning i embraced correction made by Scripture - only by Scripture.

Here is the Evidence - if you reject this or submit this unto anything else, you will err in understanding.
John chapter 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

All angels were created - ALL of them - there is not one Scripture that says angels are the Elohim of Genesis, Exodus and the Gospels.

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. So He became as far superior to the angels as the name He has inherited is excellent beyond theirs. 5For to which of the angels did God ever say:
“You are My Son; today I have become Your Father”?
Or again:
“I will be His Father, and He will be My Son” And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world,
He says:“Let all God’s angels worship Him.”

Now about the angels He says: “He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire.

”But about the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever,
and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.

All angels worship the SON - archangels worship the SON, Gabriel and Michael worship the SON.