Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[BloodBought 1953]

But the bottom line is...evil goes to hell and good goes to heaven.
Be good and do good.



I sincerely believe that you are confused......Those That put their total Faith in Jesus to Save them are the souls that are Saved......those that Reject the Atoning work that Jesus completed on the Cross are the damned.....

You are thinking as the World thinks.....” Nobody But God is Good”......The most Evil Of Men can arrive in Heaven if they Repent before they die...” repentance “ meaning “ Turning to God for Mercy with Faith in Jesus Christ”....it is NOT Repenting from Sins to be Saved....THAT command for Salvation is NOT in the KJV....Sorrow and remorse and fear of Hell May “Lead” to Salvation, But it ain’t Salvation.....Salvation comes from Believing the Gospel Of 1 Cor15:1-4.....Putting your Faith in what God has done for man—-NOT what YOU have done for God....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So their behavior is not relevant?
Back to all evil goes to heaven.

Behavior is “ Relevant”—— it’s just not the deciding factor that determines Salvation vs Damnation....Salvation is not “ Sin Maintainence”.....Salvation is Faith in Christ Jesus to pay the Price for all Of your Sinning....It ain’t “ behaving”, it’s “ Do you * KNOW* Him......if you “know Him” all that behavior stuff that’s got your panties in a knot will take care of itself.....God is looking for TRUST....He Demands it for Salvation.....If you try to “ behave” your way to Salvation, that TRUST that God demands, may or may not follow.....if you concentrate on Trusting and believing the Promises Of God, the Behavior will take care of itself......without you having to try so hard....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Sorry, but these days I tend to “ gloss over” the majority of the posts from certain poorly taught and confused souls....Ive developed a low- tolerance for the pablum spewed from religionists....why read stuff that just turns out to be another variation of “ Jesus Saves—- BUT!”.......If you’ve seen “ one” Gospel Perversion, you’ve seen them all.....My thinking is always , “what do Newbies need to hear that will help rescue them from the Legalistic Chains that you guys want to wrap them in....” I don’t talk “ TO” you guys—— I talk “ Past” you.....”Time’s a- wasting....”. I hope my grammar arose to your standards......lol.....

You didn't gloss over doctrine in my post. You glossed right over the emboldened part where I made it crystal clear that I am better than the drunk in the alley BY GOD'S GRACE. And because you did that you launched into an inapplicable and ignorant rant about me being legalistic and self righteous. God made me worthy of the kingdom, not me, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You have agreed in the past with “justbyfaithplusluckyrepentance“ that you will be damned if you don’t repent of all of your sins before you die.

Only if those sins are because you have rejected Christ and are in unbelief. I've been telling you this for months. But since you just gloss over what I write and talk past me you ignorantly think I say repentance earns salvation. ↓↓↓

Sorry, but these days I tend to “ gloss over” the majority of the posts from certain poorly taught and confused souls....Ive developed a low- tolerance for the pablum spewed from religionists....why read stuff that just turns out to be another variation of “ Jesus Saves—- BUT!”.......If you’ve seen “ one” Gospel Perversion, you’ve seen them all.....My thinking is always , “what do Newbies need to hear that will help rescue them from the Legalistic Chains that you guys want to wrap them in....” I don’t talk “ TO” you guys—— I talk “ Past” you.....”Time’s a- wasting....”. I hope my grammar arose to your standards......lol.....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It’s STILL a FACT that you are in a state of inexcusable ignorance in regard to Hebrews 10 and think that any sin done on purpose ( as if all of your sins are” accidental” ! Haha- what a JOKE “that” is!)

You're inadequate reading comprehension and your impolite way of just passing over my posts causes you to truncate my argument to your liking. You keep leaving off the part where I say that willful sins DONE IN UNBELIEF AND A REJECTION OF CHRIST are what will condemn you despite any claim to have believed and been saved in the past. It isn't about accidental vs. purposeful sins. It's about purposely sinning IN UNBELIEF. You need to stop glossing over my posts and talking past me and actually give me the godly courtesy of actually understanding my argument. I do that for you. You owe me the same courtesy.

 

[Addy]

Good morning Ferris... Unlike G... I could not leave you in the dog house... but with that said.... communicating with you on this topic or probably any topic would be fruitless. BB seems to have unending energy to deal with the matter of legalism... and I can't seem to muster up the tolerance or patience. This topic is one that literally makes me sick to my stomach.... to see the arrogance and hypocrisy that comes out... not to mention the arrogance. Be blessed.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

if my daughter sins, she is going to be punished . If she WILLFULLY SINS, blatantly doing something wrong that she “ KNOWS” is wrong, she will be Chastised more Severely.....she is STILL my daughter.....that’s how God treats Willful Sinning— more severe chastisement— NOT DAMNATION!

Analogies are fine, but they do have to accurately represent what it seeks to illustrate. Regarding what we're talking about here, the more accurate analogy is this: A daughter can't disown her father and still receive his inheritance. She can act like...uh....you....but as long as she does not disown her father she remains in line for the inheritance. Even your judgmental attitude towards others is not going to disinherit you, unless that sin is a direct result of you having rejected the grace of God by which you were sanctified. As a believer, you can't sin your way out of the inheritance. But you can reject the inheritance, like when Esau sold his birthright for the temporary, carnal pleasure of a bowl of stew (Hebrews 10:16-17). He didn't care about his birthright and so he trampled on it in contempt. The temporal was more important. And then when he went to receive it HE WAS REJECTED. Learn from this, people!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Good morning Ferris... Unlike G... I could not leave you in the dog house... but with that said.... communicating with you on this topic or probably any topic would be fruitless. BB seems to have unending energy to deal with the matter of legalism... and I can't seem to muster up the tolerance or patience. This topic is one that literally makes me sick to my stomach.... to see the arrogance and hypocrisy that comes out... not to mention the arrogance. Be blessed.

Good morning.
Obedience is not legalism. Obedience is the result of faith...

"...the obedience that comes from faith." Romans 1:5
​

Legalism is trying to be obedient with the express intent of earning a justification of right standing with God. The obedience of faith, and the necessity for it, is not legalism. BB seems to be going off the deep end, lol, but if he remains somewhat sane and our discussion can continue I invite you to read along. Based on what you've said above it's probably better that you not participate at this point.

 

[Taken]

Good morning Ferris... Unlike G... I could not leave you in the dog house... but with that said.... communicating with you on this topic or probably any topic would be fruitless. BB seems to have unending energy to deal with the matter of legalism... and I can't seem to muster up the tolerance or patience. This topic is one that literally makes me sick to my stomach.... to see the arrogance and hypocrisy that comes out... not to mention the arrogance. Be blessed.

It does get frustrating.
IMO part of the biggest issue in discussion IS:
One "word" has multiple meanings and applications. And when two people are discussing a topic, and each meaning and applying one "word", in a different sense...the topic of discussion goes haywire.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Addy]

Good morning.
Obedience is not legalism. Obedience is the result of faith...

"...the obedience that comes from faith." Romans 1:5
Legalism is trying to be obedient with the express intent of earning a justification of right standing with God. The obedience of faith, and the necessity for it, is not legalism. BB seems to be going off the deep end, lol, but if he remains somewhat sane and our discussion can continue I invite you to read along. Based on what you've said above it's probably better that you not participate at this point.

I BLESS you.... and that was why I wrote this morning to you... I think I have made it clear that I have no desire to talk about legalism with you.
I am not BB... I am me... I have taken you off IGNORE... because for the most part... our conversation has been very civilized... and unlike the other guy... you don't have a mean streak... nor do you twist everyone's words. So again... I bless you. WE agree to disagree.

 

[Addy]

It does get frustrating.

For me this gets heartbreaking... It took me three days to calm down after finally deciding to leave this thread.
Life is too short for this kind of crap... People will believe whatever they desire.... and as the days pass within these forums...
I have lost my desire to be at one with others... This topic is toxic... and it is dangerous... for those who dare believe that they
must do good and be good to 'remain' saved. This is a belief I broke away from at the cost of walking out on the entire lot of my
remaining family. Add to that the non stop accusation that we all live like bloody pigs and swim and bathe in sin... It's REVOLTING... So... yeah... this is a touchy subject for me.

Anyways... with the odd drop in to check in with BB... and maybe His Life if he returns... I need to remove myself.
Blessings to you @Taken ... I have come to treasure your words.

 

[Taken]

Good morning.
Obedience is not legalism. Obedience is the result of faith...

"...the obedience that comes from faith." Romans 1:5
​

Legalism is trying to be obedient with the express intent of earning a justification of right standing with God. The obedience of faith, and the necessity for it, is not legalism. BB seems to be going off the deep end, lol, but if he remains somewhat sane and our discussion can continue I invite you to read along. Based on what you've said above it's probably better that you not participate at this point.

So, I have heard the words "legalism and legalistic" tossed about. Wasn't sure what was the supposed meaning.

You say, as I bolded, and I did a verification check;
And found multiple meanings.
Inanutshell appears to mean; Works are the KEY to Salvation?

That meaning seems a bit obscure to me.
Legalism...in my POV has to do with a Legal, a Lawful "requirement", for "something" "within the Law TO APPLY".

Apparently, "in legalism", The WORKS and OBEDIENCE of a PERSON, must be MET, "before" they are "JUSTIFIED", to "receive" something.....that "something" being...
Salvation?

 

[Taken]

For me this gets heartbreaking... It took me three days to calm down after finally deciding to leave this thread.
Life is too short for this kind of crap... People will believe whatever they desire.... and as the days pass within these forums...
I have lost my desire to be at one with others... This topic is toxic... and it is dangerous... for those who dare believe that they
must do good and be good to 'remain' saved. This is a belief I broke away from at the cost of walking out on the entire lot of my
remaining family. Add to that the non stop accusation that we all live like bloody pigs and swim and bathe in sin... It's REVOLTING... So... yeah... this is a touchy subject for me.

Anyways... with the odd drop in to check in with BB... and maybe His Life if he returns... I need to remove myself.
Blessings to you @Taken ... I have come to treasure your words.

When ones traces back "legalism", as defined by historical "philosophers", it IMO throws a monkey wrench into the mix, for sideline deflection.

Jesus came to earth to Accomplish many specific things. Broadly yet expressly He came in the "likeness AS a man", TO: teach earthly men "how to BE in Gods Likeness".

First off, Jesus came ... AS A "servant".
No man can "DO" (works), can "RECEIVE" (rewards)....until such time: "that man"....
Hears, Learns, Comprehends, WHAT a "SERVANT IS" and then "freely Chooses"...
TO "BE" a "servant of God".

THAT ^ is a "choice"... not a gift FROM God, not a blessing FROM God, not a WORKS of a man.

It's more like....Hey, do you want to be a Servant to God...or not?
IF you DO....say so.
If you DO.....here's the DEAL....(you are a unique "individual")... any time, any place...
The Lord God, may require "your service"... that has NOT ONE IOTA to do with what "any other individual willing servant is called to do, in Service to the Lord God."

The Scripture reveals, All mens, "Reasonable Service" unto the Lord God...

Romans 12:
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

"IF" any man, does NOTHING else...but;
present his body as a living sacrifice, holy, (which is the heartful presentment, not mindful presentment)....that man IS Acceptable to God.

THAT is the deciding factor...
WITH God...WITH and IN Christ...or not.
NOT Works, NOT philosophical mumbo jumbo, NOT a long list of repetative RITUALS, NOT repeatedly ASKING the Lord God FOR WHAT He has already given a person...
blah, blah, blah.

Remember the "man condemned by men"....hanging next to Jesus...?
"Void of man's long list of "requirements"...
That man was Acceptable and Saved.

Bottom line...VOID of mans "requirements"...
By Gods Grace and Mercy...is Gods Offering of Salvation possible.
By a mans heartful belief...is a man Acceptable to receive Gods Offering of Salvation.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Addy]

THAT is the deciding factor...
WITH God...WITH and IN Christ...or not.
NOT Works, NOT philosophical mumbo jumbo, NOT a long list of repetative RITUALS, NOT repeatedly ASKING the Lord God FOR WHAT He has already given a person...
blah, blah, blah.

Remember the "man condemned by men"....hanging next to Jesus...?
"Void of man's long list of "requirements"...
That man was Acceptable and Saved.

Bottom line...VOID of mans "requirements"...
By Gods Grace and Mercy...is Gods Offering of Salvation possible.
By a mans heartful belief...is a man Acceptable to receive Gods Offering of Salvation.

Yes and Yes.... and Yes again.
The thief on the cross...-because he believed.

My frustration in these discussions is birthed from a few in particular who seem to delight in accusing the brethren and twisting every single word spoken by those who believe in Security of Salvation ( OSAS ).

I don't know where these sin loving... Grace abusing Christians are... who condone all sorts of nasty behaviours... I do not know of any Christians who live this way.... but apparently... they are everywhere. This is one of the hugest accusations flying around...
It is a FALSE FLAG based on nothing but summation YET... it is brought up over and over again.... I believe the motivation for this platform is based on jealousy....It seems to offend the legalist that there are some of us who REST in the GOSPEL... they seem to think this means we don't do
anything with regards to working out our salvation... in their estimation we are simply BASKING in the carnal pleasures of life... because after all... we are SAVED by the Blood.
This is a blatant lie... as well as a slanderous accusation.


The above is why I will no longer read anything or communicate with several within the forums.

The bible CLEARLY describes how a Christian is supposed to live... and by His GRACE and HIS PROMISES... God is more than capable of bringing one of His children unto Himself.

Obedience to Christ is something that a believer surrenders to.... and our sanctification is a life-long journey. As many will attest to ( I think )... the older one gets... the easier it is to avoid sin. It comes from having fallen in love with Christ. The motivation of SERVING as you put it... comes from LOVE and DEVOTION..... and NOT from DUTY and FEAR.

That is the difference between legalism ( I must do this and that in order to please God and thus get saved ) and GRACE ( I want to do everything to please my precious Lord because I love Him so )... Both attitudes/ beliefs will produce fruit... One is sweet smelling and the other is bitter.

AS for correction... ( another hot topic that usually gets mashed in )... The bible indeed has a clear explanation on HOW to properly correct a member of the church who has fallen into sin. ( I am assuming that this is for a sinner who is not desiring to repent ) otherwise... there is NO NEED to correct someone who has ALREADY repented.

I have heard horror stories of churchs' making people who have sinned stand up in front of the entire congregation and confess their sin... You might as well just stone them and get it over with.

Correction is highly abused within the brethren... and perhaps that is because the church is NOT doing their diligent duty in gently taking one who is lost aside and exhorting them to a better way.

Lots of problems... lots of accusations... lots of pride.... lots of arrogance... lots of accusing and demeaning... and it's all fabricated... for the sake of protecting the notion that one must do go... and be good... in order to be worthy for Salvation. Seems to make them feel safe rather than grateful.

NO one is worthy of Salvation... but CHRIST paid the penalty for our SIN...HE is the ONLY one who is WORTHY.

For those who think themselves better than the drunk down the street... that my friends is PRIDE and NOT understanding where you fit in on the food chain... LOL

 

[Ferris Bueller]

for those who dare believe that they
must do good and be good to 'remain' saved.

No, one must continue to have faith in Christ, not perform works of self righteousness, to remain saved.

Some say that's a given and that the true believer will always believe and can't stop believing.
Some say the true believer has a choice to continue to believe or stop believing.
But either way, the truth stands that a person must continue to believe to the very end in order to be saved when Jesus comes back. Neither of these arguments changes that fact. And God has not left us with the burden of conjuring up a 'believing' that we do not have the ability to conjure up. The ability to believe comes from him and he'll keep it in plentiful supply if we'll just rely on him to keep it in plentiful supply.

 

[Addy]

No, one must continue to have faith in Christ, not perform works of self righteousness, to remain saved.

Some say that's a given and that the true believer will always believe and can't stop believing.
Some say the true believer has a choice to continue to believe or stop believing.
But either way, the truth stands that a person must continue to believe to the very end in order to be saved when Jesus comes back. Neither of these arguments changes that fact. And God has not left us with the burden of conjuring up a 'believing' that we do not have the ability to conjure up. The ability to believe comes from him and he'll keep it in plentiful supply if we'll just rely on him to keep it in plentiful supply.

Sorry Ferris... you and I are done.

 

[Taken]

Addy -
I am of the position, that an individuals established relationship with the Lord God...
IS exactly that...AN "established" relationship between the That individual and the Lord God.

It is "men" who have all kinds of "different" relationships with other "men"; families, friends, neighbors, strangers, employer, employee, blah, blah, blah.

These fall into a whole array of different "respectives"...likeable, tolerable, lovable, intolerable, kind, mean, forthright, underhanded....AND then the "presumption" and "dictation" goes wayward...

To THAT ^ POINT...meaning;
My Relationship with the Lord God, IS exclusive, between Him and myself.
My exclusive BELIEF IN HIM.
My exclusive TRUST IN HIM.
My exclusive SURRENDER TO HIM....

My Relationship with the Lord God, IS NOT Parallel with my relationship with ANY "human person".
I do NOT confess Belief IN any human.
I do NOT confess Trust IN any human.
I do NOT surrender my Life TO any human.

But YET, it is "human men", that can give off the vibe (intended or not), that "THEY" (or THEIR priest, cleric, commentators, philosophers, teachers, doctrines, manuals, etc.) are the "WAY", "TRUTH" & "LIFE"...

Thus it goes "wayward"...and the Lords WORD, becomes a sideline mention; While the "denominations" and "man-made" doctrines, rituals, philosophies, rules, buildings, become the mans "highlight"... MUST...so "THEY" can accept you....and IF you don't....."THEY" have a judgement "FOR YOU".

Men make it way more complicated than the Lord Himself does.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Addy]

I am of the position, that an individuals established relationship with the Lord God...
IS exactly that...AN "established" relationship between the That individual and the Lord God.

I call it sacred ground... others call it stomping ground...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Nearly all of what people like to call "legalism' is actually just people trying to justify their own actions to themselves and other people.

This is essentially the definition of legalism. Your mainline denominations are chock full of these Easter and Christmas kind of Christians.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So are you saying that someone that believes in Christ can commit all manner of sin...lifelong...lifestyle can go to heaven?
Homosexuals
drug users
abortionists
murderers
child molesters
rapists
etc

If so, I hope they will be BB's neighbors, not mine, lol.