How to defend the trinity?

[theefaith]

The most convenient, and only, TRUTH of the 3-headed beast.

If that were true, they would have baptized into the trinity. They did not. Ever.

I can't speak to their level of intelligence, but if they embraced the trinity doctrine, they were plainly duped … or advocates of the devil.[/QUOTE]

the Christian church for two thousand years has baptized in the trinitarian form:
In the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit

read the didache or teaching of the apostles

 

[theefaith]

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptizeinto the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptismlet the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

 

[theefaith]

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!

 

[GEN2REV]

the Christian church for two thousand years has baptized in the trinitarian form:
In the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit

The churches you speak of are churches that were influenced by the Catholic Church and its doctrines. Yes, that means most churches today. The churches in the Bible baptized in Jesus' Name until that time, centuries later.

The Apostle Peter gives instruction to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ, NOT the trinity.
Acts 2:38

Even the verses that speak of baptism refer to baptism IN CHRIST, not IN the trinity.
Galatians 3:26-28

And those that might speak of it otherwise, like in the Spirit, etc., still never baptize into the trinity.

There is not ONE example of baptism into the trinity anywhere in scripture. Nor is the word trinity to be found anywhere from Genesis to Revelation, nor is God ever referred to as being 3. He is repeatedly referred to as ONE throughout scripture.

There is only one name under heaven and earth by which we must be saved. ONE.
Acts 4:10, 12

God IS The Father, Son and Holy Ghost, but they are the SAME. Catholic teaching makes them different persons. This completely contradicts scripture.

But you, and all who embrace the trinity doctrine, put no value or validity into scripture, your God is the Catholic Church and what IT says is the gospel to you, NOT what God says in His Word.

 

[GEN2REV]

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

There you have it right there.

There is the cult-hood of the Catholic Church EXPOSED for all to see.

If you are not Catholic, you will not be saved. That's the bottom line of Catholicism and it is found NOWHERE in scripture.

Blasphemy and Heresy unbridled!

 

[GEN2REV]

Jesus was not Catholic, nor were ANY of the Apostles.

 

[GEN2REV]

Give 'em enough rope, eventually they'll hang themselves.

 

[theefaith]

The churches you speak of are churches that were influenced by the Catholic Church and its doctrines. Yes, that means most churches today. The churches in the Bible baptized in Jesus' Name until that time, centuries later.

The Apostle Peter gives instruction to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ, NOT the trinity.
Acts 2:38

Even the verses that speak of baptism refer to baptism IN CHRIST, not IN the trinity.
Galatians 3:26-28

And those that might speak of it otherwise, like in the Spirit, etc., still never baptize into the trinity.

There is not ONE example of baptism into the trinity anywhere in scripture. Nor is the word trinity to be found anywhere from Genesis to Revelation, nor is God ever referred to as being 3. He is repeatedly referred to as ONE throughout scripture.

There is only one name under heaven and earth by which we must be saved. ONE.
Acts 4:10, 12

God IS The Father, Son and Holy Ghost, but they are the SAME. Catholic teaching makes them different persons. This completely contradicts scripture.

But you, and all who embrace the trinity doctrine, put no value or validity into scripture, your God is the Catholic Church and what IT says is the gospel to you, NOT what God says in His Word.

Christ says to his church (his apostles) to teach all nations baptize disciples in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit

peter defends this by giving the command to be baptized (trinitarian) form in the name of Jesus acts 2:39 and including infants acts 2:39

the command to be baptized is in the name of Jesus, the baptism is in the form Christ demands or it’s not a valid Christian baptism and only can be baptized once eph 4:5

and it is our justification washes away sin makes us a member of Christ and his holy church


Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[theefaith]

There you have it right there.

There is the cult-hood of the Catholic Church EXPOSED for all to see.

If you are not Catholic, you will not be saved. That's the bottom line of Catholicism and it is found NOWHERE in scripture.

Blasphemy and Heresy unbridled!

Christ and his church are necessary for salvation yes!

“Baptismal regeneration” is the initiation into the new covenant!

Christian baptism is an outward sign of the inward action of grace, or merits of Christ’s passion blood and death applied to our souls!

Metaphorical or implied meaning of baptism!

John 19:34
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

The blood signifies the infinite merits of Christ!
The water signifies baptism!

Old Testament pre-figures of baptism.

Psalm 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Psalm 36:9
For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

Song of Solomon 4:15
A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon.

Isaiah 41:18
I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.

Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations;

Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

1 pet 3:20-21

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

New Testament

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)

Mk 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

Jn 1: 11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)

John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

John3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:4
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
(Saved by baptism)

Acts 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Philip preached Jesus and the result is justification by baptism!

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Gal 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1 Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

(Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Born of God by baptism

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)


1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

 

[theefaith]

How many people outside the ark of Noah lives? Zero!

the church is the ark of salvation baptism is initiation

how many outside the church will have eternal life? ZERO!

 

[GEN2REV]

Hurry up and bury your mistakes with as LOOOONNNNGGGGGG of posts as you can quickly post up.

 

[GEN2REV]

How many books are there in the Bible? 66

How many in the OT? 39

How many in the NT? 27

How many will say "Lord, Lord" and be sent to hell? Most

 

[Wrangler]

How do you defend the trinity from the Bible alone?

wrangler we know you say no!

Thank you. I'm glad I hesitated posting in this thread. The posts contain assertions, not even arguments. So they are exceedingly weak. Your question is invalid as it has a flawed implied premise. Since the trinity is not in the Bible - not the word and not the doctrine - one cannot rationally defend it from the Bible alone. There simply is no verse that says something like, "The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever." Jesus did not teach the trinity.

The better question is why would one want to defend a doctrine not found in Scripture that actually contradicts much of Scripture? For instance, nowhere is Jesus referred to as the one and only LORD. (There are many lowercase 'lords' of the Bible and Jesus is one of many.) In fact, he is not even the only son of God anymore. (While all first born's are initially "only" children, that remains true only until the next child comes along.) The strongest proof that Jesus is not God is the well recorded fact that he died. The trinitarian appeal to dualism is laughable, expanding God's word to "part of him died."

That Jesus is not the only child of God is the very heart of the Good News, lost on trinitarians. I've encountered people who attempted to violate the Law of Identity to defend this doctrine. A is A and son is son.

While the title is about defending the horrible, inherently contradictory doctrine of the trinity, the real passion is to defend the man-is-god thesis. The easiest way to defeat the trinity is the expose the non-existent '3rd person,' that we pray FOR but not TO.

If the doctrine were valid, why would one sentence of God's word juxtapose God (in his unitarian nature) with Jesus rather than 'the Father'? There are many, many times were the unitarian God is the subject of the sentence while Jesus is not. For instance, Acts 3:15 'God raised him from the dead.'

You're living proof of the fact that if you're standing in a dark room you can't expel darkness by hurling punches at the darkness.

This is the classical "defense," resorting to threat, a pitiful psychological attack. I've had people come right out and say if you do not believe this anti-Biblical doctrine, you cannot be saved. When I ask where is that in the Bible, the real fun begins. A few explicit verses for your consideration.


Jesus replied, “The most important commandment is this: ‘Listen, O Israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD.
Mark 12:29 (NLT) Jesus quoting the Sh'ma, Deuteronomy 6:4

For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Romans 8:14

You shall have no other gods before me
1st Commandment

'For us, there is one God, the Father'
1 Corinthians 8:6

 

[theefaith]

Hurry up and bury your mistakes with as LOOOONNNNGGGGGG of posts as you can quickly post up.

ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ

 

[theefaith]

We would not like to leave as ignorant as we found you!

 

[theefaith]

But then again the thick black scales of fundamentalism can only be penetrated by the light of Christ! Acts 9

 

[theefaith]

Thank you. I'm glad I hesitated posting in this thread. The posts contain assertions, not even arguments. So they are exceedingly weak. Your question is invalid as it has a flawed implied premise. Since the trinity is not in the Bible - not the word and not the doctrine - one cannot rationally defend it from the Bible alone. There simply is no verse that says something like, "The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever."

The better question is why would one want to defend a doctrine not found in Scripture that actually contradicts much of Scripture? For instance, nowhere is Jesus referred to as the one and only LORD. (There are many lowercase 'lords' of the Bible and Jesus is one of many.) In fact, he is not even the only son of God anymore. (While all first born's are initially "only" children, that remains true only until the next child comes along.) The strongest proof that Jesus is not God is the well recorded fact that he died. The trinitarian appeal to dualism is laughable, expanding God's word to "part of him died."

That Jesus is not the only child of God is the very heart of the Good News, lost on trinitarians. I've encountered people who attempted to violate the Law of Identity to defend this doctrine. A is A and son is son.

While the title is about defending the horrible, inherently contradictory doctrine of the trinity, the real passion is to defend the man-is-god thesis. The easiest way to defeat the trinity is the expose the non-existent '3rd person,' that we pray FOR but not TO.

If the doctrine were valid, why would one sentence of God's word juxtapose God (in his unitarian nature) with Jesus rather than 'the Father'? There are many, many times were the unitarian God is the subject of the sentence while Jesus is not. For instance, Acts 3:15 'God raised him from the dead.'



This is the classical "defense," resorting to threat, a pitiful psychological attack. I've had people come right out and say if you do not believe this anti-Biblical doctrine, you cannot be saved. When I ask where is that in the Bible, the real fun begins. A few explicit verses for your consideration.


Jesus replied, “The most important commandment is this: ‘Listen, O Israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD.
Mark 12:29 (NLT) Jesus quoting the Sh'ma, Deuteronomy 6:4

For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Romans 8:14

You shall have no other gods before me
1st Commandment

'For us, there is one God, the Father'
1 Corinthians 8:6

and you cannot be a Christian without faith in the divinity of Christ and the trinity

is Jesus eternal?

 

[theefaith]

[QUOTE="GEN2REV

what commandment is this?

Ephesians 6:2
Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

 

[Wrangler]

and you cannot be a Christian without faith in the divinity of Christ and the trinity

Again, where is that in the Bible? Nowhere.

I'm not sure what kind of threat you think this is but you can call me whatever you want for it makes no difference to me or the master and savior I serve. The only God is Jesus' God.

is Jesus eternal?

Not any more than the rest of us. Why do you even ask?

 

[theefaith]

Again, where is that in the Bible? Nowhere.

I'm not sure what kind of threat you think this is but you can call me whatever you want for it makes no difference to me or the master and savior I serve. The only God is Jesus' God.



Not any more than the rest of us. Why do you even ask?

cos scripture says he is

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

the divinity of Christ and the trinity are Christian doctrines
Reject them and you reject Christ and his church that taught them
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles is the rule of faith