Is pre-tribulation rapture a doctrine of demons?

[The Kreisel]

Are you the Lord?

Lord whom?

Yup, I am the New Man = The Seed of Abraham = Christ.
Any questions?

@Truther - Are you an antichrist? -
"NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18

You have to pick one.

 

[Truther]

Yup, I am the New Man = The Seed of Abraham = Christ.
Any questions?

@Truther - Are you an antichrist? -
"NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS" - I John 2:18

You have to pick one.

Oh stop it!


LOL:)

 

[The Kreisel]

Oh stop it!


LOL:)

Like most so-called CHRISTians, you have a spiritual identity crisis -
So you must resort to a nervous defense mechanism.

 

[Truther]

Like most so-called CHRISTians, you have a spiritual identity crisis -
So you must resort to a nervous defense mechanism.

No, you just went to name calling instead of interacting.

If I called everyone I disagreed with "antichrist", nobody would ever converse with me, including my wife and kids.

You need to chill and chat, not heat and preach;)

 

[Truther]

Like most so-called CHRISTians, you have a spiritual identity crisis -
So you must resort to a nervous defense mechanism.

No, you just went to name calling instead of interacting.

If I called everyone I disagreed with "antichrist", nobody would ever converse with me, including my wife and kids.

You need to chill and chat, not heat and preach;)

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus ministry started the 70th week and He was "cut off but not for Himself" was fulfilled on the Cross. The remaining 3.5 years will be fulfilled according to the will and timing of the Father, thus "no one knows the Day or Hour except My Father in Heaven" - Matt 24:36 -37
This is how the Father works, He is not bound by time or the will of man. This is how He brings in "the fullness of the Gentiles" and the completion of Israels temporary "casting away". Romans 11
The beginning of the remaining 3.5 years will start, again only by the will of God, when the Father directs His Holy Spirit to step aside and permit the "revealing of the Son of Perdition" II Thessalonians 2:3
The Rapture will not come before the Man of Sin - II Thess Ch 2. The Rapture occurs "at the Last Trump". I Thess 4:13-18 & I Cor 15:52-57
The Rapture cannot and will not precede the First Resurrection but occurs during the First Resurrection.
The false, demonic teaching of pre-trib rapture has many deceived because it pleases the carnal minded. Christians use it as a 'Get out of Tribulation Card'.
Pre-Trib is the easiest false teaching to clearly be exposed by anyone who submits to the Word of God in TRUTH versus having knowledge of scripture that is directed by religion and respect of persons. Are you able to grasp that? It is by choosing to believe, not by scripture, but buy religious popularity, pride and the making of money from it. It is the Dogma of the Laodecian Church Christians who absolutely give themselves over to it, it is their Idol. They will defend it against overwhelming scriptural evidence against it - it is their Idol and they love it more then loving the Truth and more than loving their Brethren. It is like to a Catholic who will not let go of worshiping Mary so they can be saved or to a Jew that cries for their Temple. That is what an idol does to the hearts and minds of people - Christian or other.
When the Holy Spirit steps aside it is not His removal from earth. The Holy Spirit is the Bouncer/ Strong Man that holds back Satan until the time the Father has appointed for him. The Holy Spirit remains in the Believer who will testify against the World, Satan and his followers just as it says in Revelations 12:10-12
Christians will have to make a choice of receiving the Mark or rejecting it - remember Lot's wife, also the parable of the Ten Virgins.
Also the Four Horsemen of Revelation were released a very long time ago - just as John said "for the time is at hand". They will continue doing laps until the final lap comes into view.
God is not subject to time, creation or the will of man.

 

[Addy]

No, you just went to name calling instead of interacting.

If I called everyone I disagreed with "antichrist", nobody would ever converse with me, including my wife and kids.

You need to chill and chat, not heat and preach;)

HAHAHAHAHA.... oh my goodness.... HE is FUNNY!!!!!!!!!! I don't agree with much of what you believe but I LIKE you...
and I think of kids skipping when I think about you.... HAHAHA

 

[Truther]

Jesus ministry started the 70th week and He was "cut off but not for Himself" was fulfilled on the Cross. The remaining 3.5 years will be fulfilled according to the will and timing of the Father, thus "no one knows the Day or Hour except My Father in Heaven" - Matt 24:36 -37
This is how the Father works, He is not bound by time or the will of man. This is how He brings in "the fullness of the Gentiles" and the completion of Israels temporary "casting away". Romans 11
The beginning of the remaining 3.5 years will start, again only by the will of God, when the Father directs His Holy Spirit to step aside and permit the "revealing of the Son of Perdition" II Thessalonians 2:3
The Rapture will not come before the Man of Sin - II Thess Ch 2. The Rapture occurs "at the Last Trump". I Thess 4:13-18 & I Cor 15:52-57
The Rapture cannot and will not precede the First Resurrection but occurs during the First Resurrection.
The false, demonic teaching of pre-trib rapture has many deceived because it pleases the carnal minded. Christians use it as a 'Get out of Tribulation Card'.
Pre-Trib is the easiest false teaching to clearly be exposed by anyone who submits to the Word of God in TRUTH versus having knowledge of scripture that is directed by religion and respect of persons. Are you able to grasp that? It is by choosing to believe, not by scripture, but buy religious popularity, pride and the making of money from it. It is the Dogma of the Laodecian Church Christians who absolutely give themselves over to it, it is their Idol. They will defend it against overwhelming scriptural evidence against it - it is their Idol and they love it more then loving the Truth and more than loving their Brethren. It is like to a Catholic who will not let go of worshiping Mary so they can be saved or to a Jew that cries for their Temple. That is what an idol does to the hearts and minds of people - Christian or other.
When the Holy Spirit steps aside it is not His removal from earth. The Holy Spirit is the Bouncer/ Strong Man that holds back Satan until the time the Father has appointed for him. The Holy Spirit remains in the Believer who will testify against the World, Satan and his followers just as it says in Revelations 12:10-12
Christians will have to make a choice of receiving the Mark or rejecting it - remember Lot's wife, also the parable of the Ten Virgins.
Also the Four Horsemen of Revelation were released a very long time ago - just as John said "for the time is at hand". They will continue doing laps until the final lap comes into view.
God is not subject to time, creation or the will of man.

Jesus was a demonic, false teacher?....


Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


Escape, or go through?

 

[Truther]

Demonic, false teaching would say Jesus said ye must go THROUGH these things.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus ministry started the 70th week and He was "cut off but not for Himself" was fulfilled on the Cross. The remaining 3.5 years will be fulfilled according to the will and timing of the Father, thus "no one knows the Day or Hour except My Father in Heaven" - Matt 24:36 -37
This is how the Father works, He is not bound by time or the will of man. This is how He brings in "the fullness of the Gentiles" and the completion of Israels temporary "casting away". Romans 11
The beginning of the remaining 3.5 years will start, again only by the will of God, when the Father directs His Holy Spirit to step aside and permit the "revealing of the Son of Perdition" II Thessalonians 2:3
The Rapture will not come before the Man of Sin - II Thess Ch 2. The Rapture occurs "at the Last Trump". I Thess 4:13-18 & I Cor 15:52-57
The Rapture cannot and will not precede the First Resurrection but occurs during the First Resurrection.
The false, demonic teaching of pre-trib rapture has many deceived because it pleases the carnal minded. Christians use it as a 'Get out of Tribulation Card'.
Pre-Trib is the easiest false teaching to clearly be exposed by anyone who submits to the Word of God in TRUTH versus having knowledge of scripture that is directed by religion and respect of persons. Are you able to grasp that? It is by choosing to believe, not by scripture, but buy religious popularity, pride and the making of money from it. It is the Dogma of the Laodecian Church Christians who absolutely give themselves over to it, it is their Idol. They will defend it against overwhelming scriptural evidence against it - it is their Idol and they love it more then loving the Truth and more than loving their Brethren. It is like to a Catholic who will not let go of worshiping Mary so they can be saved or to a Jew that cries for their Temple. That is what an idol does to the hearts and minds of people - Christian or other.
When the Holy Spirit steps aside it is not His removal from earth. The Holy Spirit is the Bouncer/ Strong Man that holds back Satan until the time the Father has appointed for him. The Holy Spirit remains in the Believer who will testify against the World, Satan and his followers just as it says in Revelations 12:10-12
Christians will have to make a choice of receiving the Mark or rejecting it - remember Lot's wife, also the parable of the Ten Virgins.
Also the Four Horsemen of Revelation were released a very long time ago - just as John said "for the time is at hand". They will continue doing laps until the final lap comes into view.
God is not subject to time, creation or the will of man.

Yea, I may not agree with all of your elements, but I do agree with the main point, that the Rapture will *not* precede the 2nd Coming. Nothing could be more ludicrous. And I agree with your corollary, that it is mind-boggling that good Christians hold onto this like a monkey holding onto a silver object inside a coconut. Catholics hold onto love of Mary, and Catholic domination, and Faith Teachers hold onto the belief that Trump won the election--actually, I always hope they were right!

But there is nothing in Scriptures that teaches, as a theology, Pretrib--nothing at all! It must be conjured out of nothing, or produced by a repetition of suggestions. If it was taught in Scriptures how come no major thinker in all of history prior to Darby in 1830 saw it? There were, perhaps, some wild, eccentric ideas out there, but nothing producing a theology that became standard eschatology in the Church. Why is that? Why did God wait until John N. Darby to reveal the truth to the world, and why did it get circulated through a study Bible in the *notes,* not being evident in the Scriptures on their own?

I've been enduring the prophecy sections of Christian bookstores for years, completely dominated by pretrib thinking. I've been entertained by Left Behind movies, and endured Left Behind books racking up the profits at the expense of Bible study. However, I've noticed that we have some new thinkers and honest people out there writing Postrib books again. I loved the scholarship of George Ladd and Robert Gundry. I'm now reading a book, a couple of years old now, that seems to be on target--"Not Afraid of the Antichrist."

Thanks for your courage in standing up to the mob. It's difficult to stand up to the mass interest in crystal ball reading. It takes intestinal fortitude to remain focused solely on the cross, and on the need to be disciplined by the Spirit. Getting puffed up on our imaginations is something we always need to be wary of.

 

[marks]

What courage does it take to deride pre-tribbers? Lot's of people do that.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

You emphasize my point - pick and choose your verses to place your idol on top of. You reject the TOTALITY of what Jesus said (and the Apostles) for isolated quotes to blind your mind as apposed to opening it. No different than the Jews who wanted to kill Jesus for His 'blasphemy', or Saul of Tarsus who knew scripture better than you but could not see the Messiah until he was blinded by the Messiah.
Jesus said: "But he who endures to the end shall be saved" and "unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened." and then you also reject Jesus saying " Immediately after the tribulation of those days...." as well as Jesus saying to YOU (after the tribulation) "Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming"
Are you smarter than the Lord Jesus Christ in that you know He is coming before the Tribulation period - raising yourself above and against what Jesus said. The apostate doctrine of pre-trib rapture is to dumb down Christians and divide the Body of Christ and subject it to proud men, men with PhDs with high intellect who put on a great show and display of spiritual acuity.
OH WAIT - the elect only refers to the Jews - right! = WRONG
Better remove I Peter Ch1, Colossians Ch 3, Romans 8:33, Matt 24:31, Mark 13:27 from your Bible since it condemns the pre-trib rapture lie.
My question to you is this - Do you want the Love of Christ and obedience to His Word over the love and praise of men, religion and apealling doctrines?

 

[marks]

There is NO explicit statement in the Bible of when those In Christ are caught up. None. Not there.

Although the answers are there, I think! But you have to be ready to go with what is written.

One prime example, I've not met a "pre-wrather" or "post-tribber" who had held that the sheep and goats judgment happens exactly as it says. That seems to me to be a common theme when people disagree over Biblical teachings. One or the other or both often times have come to a verse, believing it says something a little different than the words used.

In the case of the sheep/goats judgment, Jesus returns in glory, and Israel is gathered to Him. He takes His throne, and the nations are gathered and separated based on how they treated Jesus' brothers, the Jews.

Most just say it's a parable. Some say it's the same thing as the Great White Throne judgment. But all seem to find the need to make it something other than EXACTLY what it says.

And there are many more passages like that.

Perhaps you hold to a post-trib or pre-wrath view. If so, how do you see this sheep/goats judgment?

Test your view to see . . . what are the implications to other passages?

Everything must harmonize, everything must be accounted for.

Care to test your views with respectful debate? I'll be your huckleberry! Key word is respectful.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

My last statement was to the person who quoted an isolated scripture about praying to escape all these things - which I do believe and have prayed. Just as everyday I pray Psalm 68: 19 - 20 because my occupation demands it since injury and death can happen to me in a split second.

 

[David in NJ]

I try my best to align my mind, eyes and heart to submit to this Promise and WARNING: Proverbs 30:5-6 and Revelations 22:18-21

Also the Book of Revelations destroys the falsehood of pre-trib.
Please keep in mind that all Christians are subject to the wrath of satan - We are not subject to the wrath of God, and yet all have sinned therefore all must die. The only ones who will not see death are those sanctified Believers at the End who endure unto His Coming.

 

[David in NJ]

Please know that I love everyone in the Body of Christ no matter where we are in faith and understanding. I just hate falsehood being taught because it makes money for churches, pastors, book publishing and so on.
There is no gray area on this - but they want you confused about it so they can have power over you.

Tid bit here - Jesus has commanded His Angels to first go out and gather the weeds for burning BEFORE gathering the elect into His barn.

 

[David in NJ]

Yea, I may not agree with all of your elements, but I do agree with the main point, that the Rapture will *not* precede the 2nd Coming. Nothing could be more ludicrous. And I agree with your corollary, that it is mind-boggling that good Christians hold onto this like a monkey holding onto a silver object inside a coconut. Catholics hold onto love of Mary, and Catholic domination, and Faith Teachers hold onto the belief that Trump won the election--actually, I always hope they were right!

But there is nothing in Scriptures that teaches, as a theology, Pretrib--nothing at all! It must be conjured out of nothing, or produced by a repetition of suggestions. If it was taught in Scriptures how come no major thinker in all of history prior to Darby in 1830 saw it? There were, perhaps, some wild, eccentric ideas out there, but nothing producing a theology that became standard eschatology in the Church. Why is that? Why did God wait until John N. Darby to reveal the truth to the world, and why did it get circulated through a study Bible in the *notes,* not being evident in the Scriptures on their own?

I've been enduring the prophecy sections of Christian bookstores for years, completely dominated by pretrib thinking. I've been entertained by Left Behind movies, and endured Left Behind books racking up the profits at the expense of Bible study. However, I've noticed that we have some new thinkers and honest people out there writing Postrib books again. I loved the scholarship of George Ladd and Robert Gundry. I'm now reading a book, a couple of years old now, that seems to be on target--"Not Afraid of the Antichrist."

Thanks for your courage in standing up to the mob. It's difficult to stand up to the mass interest in crystal ball reading. It takes intestinal fortitude to remain focused solely on the cross, and on the need to be disciplined by the Spirit. Getting puffed up on our imaginations is something we always need to be wary of.

Randy, I am new at this so everyone please forgive me if I did not respond correctly. It is exciting to see that you protect your mind from things which the Lord did not say. The Bible is a Childrens Book written for God's Children and that is why smart people make a mess of it.

 

[David in NJ]

There is NO explicit statement in the Bible of when those In Christ are caught up. None. Not there.

Although the answers are there, I think! But you have to be ready to go with what is written.

One prime example, I've not met a "pre-wrather" or "post-tribber" who had held that the sheep and goats judgment happens exactly as it says. That seems to me to be a common theme when people disagree over Biblical teachings. One or the other or both often times have come to a verse, believing it says something a little different than the words used.

In the case of the sheep/goats judgment, Jesus returns in glory, and Israel is gathered to Him. He takes His throne, and the nations are gathered and separated based on how they treated Jesus' brothers, the Jews.

Most just say it's a parable. Some say it's the same thing as the Great White Throne judgment. But all seem to find the need to make it something other than EXACTLY what it says.

And there are many more passages like that.

Perhaps you hold to a post-trib or pre-wrath view. If so, how do you see this sheep/goats judgment?

Test your view to see . . . what are the implications to other passages?

Everything must harmonize, everything must be accounted for.

Care to test your views with respectful debate? I'll be your huckleberry! Key word is respectful.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Mark said: "Everything must harmonize, everything must be accounted for."
This is BEAUTIFUL
Mark, 'no one knows the Day or Hour' but we do know that before we are caught up to be with Christ, the dead in Christ will rise FIRST. I Thess Ch 4

Therefore - pre-trib rapture doctrined is completey obliterated - it is nuked to ashes.
I will give you another scripture that nukes pre-trib - 2 Timothy 2:17

 

[David in NJ]

2 Timothy 2:16-18 is the nuclear bomb that disintegrates pre-trib and is in harmony/perfect agreement with 1 Thess ch4 and 2 Thess ch2 and Rev ch 12