Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #5, Book of Acts

[teamventure]

Great point. Never in the writings of the Apostles do they claim Jesus was God incarnate.

If you deny it, you are an unbeliever, in the same lot as an athiest.

 

[teamventure]

Dear @Wrangler
In your system, this means Jesus is Divine
As in God's divine Authority of LAW or JUSTICE sent to man through Jesus to reconcile man with God, man's justice with God's Justice.

If you and @teamventure can Forgive these different ways of talking about the ONE God and the ONE Jesus,then we have no conflict.

If you two cannot forgive each other in Christ Jesus and put God's ONE truth before your own ways of expressing this same ONE truth, that is what is causing this to go back and forth in circles.

Our faith remains ONE as there is only ONE mediator between us and the ONE God

But God speaks to us in different ways that may or may not match how the same ONE God speaks to our neighbors through Christ who is ONE. One message one Messiah but different messengers to share this ONE message with different audiences.

Please let us forgive and receive one another as children of the ONE Father who receive His Truth Justice Love and Grace through Christ Jesus who makes us ONE.

Wrangler and I don't seem to believe the same concerning a core doctrine. I can't be one with that.

 

[Wrangler]

It's not a threat. It's where people who deny Christ sit with God.

Says you, not God.

 

[Wrangler]

If you deny it, you are an unbeliever, in the same lot as an athiest.

I believe Jesus is the son of God, the Savior of the world, not God incarnate. Unlike atheists, I believe in God.

 

[teamventure]

I believe Jesus is the son of God, the Savior of the world, not God incarnate. Unlike atheists, I believe in God.

Yes, but like athiests, you lack belief.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, but like athiests, you lack belief.

ROFLMAO. I don't believe what is not in the Bible.

 

[teamventure]

ROFLMAO. I don't believe what is not in the Bible.

When you stand before God, as we all will, and God asks you why you didn't believe his word, what will you say?

 

[Gregory]

Worship is the word. It may not be now used as it meant then but there it is. David was worshipped. This is the word of God.

I agree that David (and Jesus) being worshipped does not mean they are God.

Worship is not used in this scripture in the KJV. So there it isn't. If it is in some other bible translation, then we have a bible translation problem. Which bible is correct. The one that has "worship", or the one that has "obeisance"?

 

[Emily Nghiem]

Wrangler and I don't seem to believe the same concerning a core doctrine. I can't be one with that.

Not asking you to be one with any other than God through Christ.

What I ask is that we forgive one another as God forgives us.

We agree to forgive, this opens the door to receive the corrections from God through Christ.

We don't forgive, this closes the door to the Kingdom of God. Agreeing to ask God's help with forgiveness opens the door.

@theefaith @APAK will you please lead us in prayer over @teamventure and @Wrangler that we may correct faults and restore good faith relations in Christ Jesus? That God's truth and perfect will may be received established and understood. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and Holy Spirit please uplift us and bless us with your wisdom guidance and presence. Thank you, Lord!

 

[Wrangler]

When you stand before God, as we all will, and God asks you why you didn't believe his word, what will you say?

So, like theefaith, you actually believe there is a doctrinal purity test to gain admission to heaven?

 

[Wrangler]

Worship is not used in this scripture in the KJV. So there it isn't. If it is in some other bible translation, then we have a bible translation problem. Which bible is correct. The one that has "worship", or the one that has "obeisance"?

The KJV is nearly half a millennia old and is one of the worst translations available today. I provided 3 translations that have worship. King David was worshipped.

The only problem with this is how totally it destroys trinitarian doctrine.

 

[teamventure]

Not asking you to be one with any other than God through Christ.

What I ask is that we forgive one another as God forgives us.

We agree to forgive, this opens the door to receive the corrections from God through Christ.

We don't forgive, this closes the door to the Kingdom of God. Agreeing to ask God's help with forgiveness opens the door.

@theefaith @APAK will you please lead us in prayer over @teamventure and @Wrangler that we may correct faults and restore good faith relations in Christ Jesus? That God's truth and perfect will may be received established and understood. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and Holy Spirit please uplift us and bless us with your wisdom guidance and presence. Thank you, Lord!

You seem to have an assumption that we aren't forgiving eachother for something. It's like you're pulling that out of thin air.
Remember, this is a debate forum.
Also, if someone doesn't believe that Christ is God then we aren't in Christ mutually to begin with.

 

[teamventure]

So, like theefaith, you actually believe there is a doctrinal purity test to gain admission to heaven?

Not necessarily, but it doesn't work in reverse either.
Wether or not someone believes is the point.

 

[Wrangler]

Also, if someone doesn't believe that Christ is God then we aren't in Christ mutually to begin with.

If you want to embrace idolatry, we certain aren't mutually faithful to the 1C.

 

[teamventure]

So there you have it, either one of us doesn't believe or one is an idolator.

 

[APAK]

If you deny it, you are an unbeliever, in the same lot as an athiest.

I'm sad that you still persist in condemning others out of your apparent lack of understanding of scripture. Evidentially you base your attacks on what you were taught: the Trinity, the incarnation, the hypostatic union and other extra-scriptural doctrine from the traditions and biases of men.

Show your understanding of scripture at least before you try to correct someone in the err of their ways. And then to call someone an atheist based on a foundation of sand. Credibility as a Christian, counts..

Bless you,

APAK

 

[teamventure]

I'm sad that you still persist in condemning others out of your apparent lack of understanding of scripture. Evidentially you base your attacks on what you were taught: the Trinity, the incarnation, the hypostatic union and other extra-scriptural doctrine from the traditions and biases of men.

Show your understanding of scripture at least before you try to correct someone in the err of their ways. And then to call someone an atheist based on a foundation of sand. Credibility as a Christian, counts..

Bless you,

APAK

I believe the Bible as plainly stated. If you confuse scripture and mess up the details you are a false teacher.
I didn't call someone an atheist, that is a strawman fallacy.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

Yes, but like athiests, you lack belief.

^ ??? ^
Dear @teamventure
You lack faith that @Wrangler is a believer.
From my experience, with people denying that someone else is a believer in situations like this, the skeptic is projecting their own bias about beliefs onto the other person.
This says more about you and what you believe or don't, than it says about the person you are judging (who can be judged by his own words and responses).

I also look at the difference in how people respond to input.

When I shared input with Wrangler the acceptance is mutual. We agree enough on the faith we have in common. In try to understand and gain as much from what Wrangler shares, including objections, and try to offer equal insights. There are the same points left to be resolved, that hasn't changed, but I sense we both have faith in working further as we go. So far I see Wrangler as open and seeking to understand and work through this. I attribute this openness to the forgiveness factor, and giving some space for differences instead of assuming the other person is in denial if they aren't agreeing to the same terms.

I am not getting that same impression from you yet. I am picking up the sense that you don't think you need to forgive any differences because you believe you are right about the conditions you present as established, you believe you are correct in judging Wrangler as a nonbeliever, so this somehow justifies treating him as less than an equal.

Am I reading this right?

Are you coming at this situation as if you are right, Wrangler has nothing to offer or teach you in return, but you expect Wrangler to change or you reject this person.

So do you see this as a "oneway" process?
Either Wrangler meets your criteria or you reject him, and you don't need to reconcile or do anything on your side because Wrangler is inferior to you?

Is this what I'm hearing?

Sorry if I am misreading this.

I have better success approaching situations as equal believers.

If both you and Wrangler claim to be believers, I hold you to that and treat you as such.

I do not understand how you or anyone can approach someone assuming they are a "nonbeliever" and talk down to them as an inferior, and expect to be received.

At the very least, if you really believe Wrangler to be inferior or "nonpersona" , I would think this calls for having even more forgiveness or compassion, not less.

Sorry @teamventure I don't understand where you are coming from.

I would rather start over, and start from what you believe and what your mission or calling is.

I am not getting where you are coming from by how you address Wrangler.

Can we start over?
Please point, refer or tag me to any post or comment or "statement of faith" you have that tells me what you believe is the right approach to teaching others.

Sorry I am not understanding you this way, but would rather start fresh!

Yours truly, Emily

 

[Emily Nghiem]

You seem to have an assumption that we aren't forgiving eachother for something. It's like you're pulling that out of thin air.
Remember, this is a debate forum.
Also, if someone doesn't believe that Christ is God then we aren't in Christ mutually to begin with.

@teamventure
To say "believing Christ is God" can mean different things to different people in different contexts.

This is an ill advised way to try to assess someone's faith.

To assess Wrangler's faith, I'd have to take HIS words and ways of relating to God and faith in Christ (not your words and ways which define where you are in your walk with God and faith development) and hold him to his own standards.

Your ways apply to you.
I would need to understand where you are coming from to get a more clear idea of you.

I do not think it is wise or effective to judge anyone by the standards of someone else.

If that is what is going on here, I pray God have mercy and direct us to better ways than this.

Otherwise this seems a recipe for misery.
And I do not wish that on anyone!

Please reconsider.
I'd much rather start over, let each profess and share faith experiences, where we support each other to grow in our path and resolve any issues that way, by supporting and uplifting each other to become better. Not competing to make each other wrong or pull each other down.

@teamventure How can we help make things right? And help each other to be better at what we already agree and commit to?

I have always found this to be a mutual process. Never one way. If you have new things to teach me, that means I have equal insights to share with you.

If you do not allow Wrangler to share what he sees and has to offer, there is no room for him to gain as much from you.

Clearly you want to add something you don't think he has.

Can we take a better approach where we can share equally without imposing how each other talks about God and Jesus.

Some people fully embrace and embody Jesus and some do not.

Some people understand phrases like "Jesus is the Son of God" or "Jesus is God" and some do not. The "Trinity" and that whole explanation is completely baffling or even contradictory to some, and is not the best way to explain or assess a person's beliefs.

Can we admit this differs without making negative judgments or assumptions about people?

 

[Emily Nghiem]

I believe Jesus is the son of God, the Savior of the world, not God incarnate. Unlike atheists, I believe in God.

Dear @Wrangler and @teamventure
Do we agree Jesus is the Son of God
And the WORD of God made incarnate?