new version of OSAS?

[michaelvpardo]

That's exactly the point. So, be careful how you build!

...each one must be careful how he builds.
[...]
If anyone builds on this foundation (Christ - 1 Corinthians 3:11, Ephesians 2:20) using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 1 Corinthians 3:10-13​

If you add people to the church who are nothing more than wood, hay, or straw (people who will be consumed in the judgment - Isaiah 33:11-12), they won't be saved, but you yourself may be saved, but you will not have them as your joy, and your crown of boasting in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming (1 Thessalonians 2:19, Philippians 4:1, Philippians 2:16, 2 John 1:8). You will have labored for nothing. No reward.

And that's the danger of the Osas type-2 gospel. If you tell 'believers' they can live in their old unchanged, unrepentant lives of unrighteousness of the unbelieving and still be saved, instead of in the new transformed lives of the believing, you are laboring for that which will not last. You are building wood, hay, and straw, instead of gold, silver, and precious stones onto the foundation stone of Christ in the temple of God. Like the land and the branches that will be burned, and the bundles of weeds that are tossed in the furnace, so your work will be destroyed in the fire of the coming judgment and you will have no reward for your labor in the field and building of God.

You missed the point again. People are not wood, hay, or straw. People are not works. You're doing great violence to the scriptures by trying to make them conform to your erroneous way of thinking. The passage is about whether or not our works are works that are done in Christ or done by our own efforts (and consequently wood, hay, or straw). You can offer a false and carnal gospel, like the pretribulation rapture gospel that appeals to the flesh, to man's fears, or like the prosperity gospel which appeals to our greed and our pride, and men could believe it and make escape or wealth their hope, but only God can prepare hearts to receive Him. Only God can open the ears to hear the truth. Only God can breathe His Spirit into a soul dead and separated from Him by sin to make it alive again and a new creation. God can't build with anything but genuine faith, but we are more than capable of misleading others and more importantly deceiving ourselves.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Whenever someone levels this argument I don't know if they're praising the righteous things Buddhists and Hindus do, or rationalizing their own unrighteousness, because surely you as a Christian can see the difference between your Christian life and their self righteous life, right?

Just one question,
But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6
Have you ever seen yourself in this verse, or does it just apply to that " evil" priest and prophet, Isaiah?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This is just roll on floor funny!

I'm purposely not logged in while I'm at work so I won't be tempted to post (and have to make up that time after work) but this is just too funny.

 

[TheslightestID]

So then I am right in my understanding of your view, that you are in control, not God. And you say that with certainty, but I am not one among that “us” and “we” that you refer to there in your statements.

Tong
R3496

Had a tough time understanding that as it was a bit incoherent, but I'll still try to work with it.

Who is responsible for your abiding and enduring to the end?

The following verse should help tremendously...it makes it all so simple. It is essentualy saying, I am responsible for being ready, no one else.

◄ Matthew 24:42 ►

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

[BarneyFife]

Exactly. Repent, act like we should and if we mess up again, repeat, and repeat it as often as necessary, and God will forgive....7X70.

There was a time, not too long ago, when that didn't need to even be explained, it was common knowledge. But today, the devil has infiterated the churches, and places like this where the Godly gather, and has tried to confuse people into believing a different gospel, one that will end many up in hell if they are not careful.

Ding, ding!!! We have a winner!!! :);):cool:

 

[marks]

Okay.

The greater explanation, is that "To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven", which changes the meaning of much of what would be considered sin. Killing, for instance: "You shall not murder.", but "he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death" is okay.

There are thousands of other acts that work the same way. Even your example of fornication is subject to interpretation. My point is, just because we consider something to be unacceptable, doesn't make it a sin in every circumstance...even if we judge it to be so from our own perspective. So, regardless of our own thoughts on moral subjects, God's ways are higher, and we don't have the last say. It's not as simple as something always being right or wrong. That is legalism. But God doesn't actually work that way.

This can be difficult for people to understand. Just the same, this is one reason why I think it's important that this be known about legalism, and legalisting thinking. Thinking that I have to do or be some certain thing to be accepted by God. Aside from being In Christ. By faith we are in Christ, and forever share in His finished work.

Not trusting in that truth leads us to feel the need to find ways to make ourselves acceptable to God, and we choose from Laws, and from "common sense", our opinions, and whatever the case, we turn our lives into measuring ourselves against a set of rules of our own making. Conforming ourselves to what is now our own personal "Law" works directly against God conforming us into the image of Christ.

Certainly many things seem obvious that they are not right, just the same, the Law we follow is to trust and to love, so the questions we should be looking at are, am I trusting? Am I loving? Looking at Law, God's OT Law, the Sermon on the Mount, Paul's lists of "these will not inherit . . .", all of this is taking one's eye off of the ball, as it were, Jesus Christ. To Him we look, and the only Law He gives us is trust and love.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We don’t have to Forgive Others in order to be Saved, now that we are no longer under Law....We look at our own wretchedness and see how God forgave us when He did not have to and how he forgave us when we did not deserve it....and that is the Motive for forgiving others —- if God forgave a wretch like me, why shouldn’t “ I” forgive my fellow man.....You Forgive Others because you WANT to , not because you HAVE to.....it should come Natural to you if you have God's Spirit in you.....if you don’t have “That Spirit ” in you , you are Lost anyway .....Make sure you GET that Spirit......REST in the Good News Of 1cor15:1-4.......

This is one of the simplest examples of the difference between the Covenant of Law, and the New Covenant. Jesus taught the people, if you do not forgive others, then God will not forgive you. He now tells us, forgive others, as you have been forgiven.

The Sermon on the Mount was included in the First Covenant teaching, because that's who He was teaching. These seems to confuse many people, who have taking portions of the Sermon on the Mount and fashioned it into some sort of "NT Law".

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Just one question,
But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6
Have you ever seen yourself in this verse, or does it just apply to that " evil" priest and prophet, Isaiah?

But now I have the righteousness of God. Now I'm more righteous than even the well meaning Buddhist and Hindu. I do things that I could not do before.

 

[Tong2020]

Just adding
Duet 30:19

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live,

That choice was for the children of Israel, the covenant people, to make.

Tong
R3502

 

[Ferris Bueller]

People are not wood, hay, or straw.

Yes, people are like wood, hay, and stubble.....

Surely they are like stubble; the fire will burn them up. They cannot even save themselves from the power of the flame. Isaiah 47:14

Not so the wicked! They are like chaff that the wind blows away. Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous. Psalm 1:4-5

You conceive chaff, you give birth to straw; your breath is a fire that consumes you. The peoples will be burned to ashes; like cut thornbushes they will be set ablaze.” Isaiah 33:11-12

His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire. Matthew 3:12​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

People are not works.

Yes, people are the servant of God's work.....

Are you yourselves not my workmanship in the Lord? Even if I am not an apostle to others, surely I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord. 1 Corinthians 9:1-2​

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Well, it you choose to evade it by such manner, there’s nothing I can do, right? At least you agreed in what I said in that post.

?

Trying to get clarity is anything but evasion..

Nope. I already gave you the post#, your post even. All you have to do is go there and be clarified and be refreshed of what you have agreed in what I posted. If that isn’t evasion then what? Perhaps Laziness?

Tong
R3503

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The passage is about whether or not our works are works are done in Christ or done by our own efforts (and consequently wood, hay, or straw).

The passage is about whether or not your work will make it through the judgment by fire at the end of the age. Your work is the people you have ministered to and placed on top of the foundation of Christ in the building of God.

...you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house... 1 Peter 2:5​

If those you have placed in the building of God are perishable and nothing more than hay, wood, and stubble they will be shown for what they are and will be consumed in the judgment and you will receive no reward for your labor. You yourself may be saved (if you have not been tearing down the building of God), but you will have no reward for your labor.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation without regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 2 Corinthians 7:10​

I notice it does not say “ repentance from sin” ....that won’t save anybody anyway....

Perhaps the “ repentance” spoken of means “ Turning to God”—- that will Save

anybody that does it...... “ Turn to me and I will turn to you”.... That is a Promise Of God...

There is no Promise Of God that says, “ Stop Sinning and I will Save you”

There is no Promise Of God that says , “ Be extremely sorrowful and regretful for your Sins and I will save you”

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This was the passage quoted:

James 2:17 (NKJV)
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is DEAD.

Where in there are the Christian works?

Tong
R3501

That may have been the verse quoted, but I said the works James is talking about are in the passage—the passage this verse comes from. I'll save you the time. He's talking about works of the law (I told you you wouldn't like it, lol). Not Sabbath keeping and Festivals. We don't have to do those anymore. The works of the law that can be summed up in 'love your neighbor as yourself'—like 'don't show favoritism', 'remember the widow and the orphan'. This is faith expressing itself through love (Galatians 5:6). These are the expressions of 'love your neighbor as yourself' that justify you as having the righteousness of God in Christ. It is this expression of faith that is not dead that shows you have the righteousness of God that comes through faith in Christ.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So, are you suggesting by that, that for as long as one care that they lie and does not forget to ask forgiveness for the lies he makes, he is not an ongoing liar?

It is clear to me when one no longer cares if they sin or not, and if you would like to try to confuse the issue in order to blur the lines in attempt to make sin ok, that is expected of OSAS, but I don't, and never will buy your false doctrin.

If we fall away and begin living in sin, we need to get right with God again, period. And not listen to clowns that do not care about our soul, those who will lead one to an easy, "its ok to sin", path to destruction by teaching, no matter what you do, you cannot lose your salvation.

Don't listen to them, they are liars.

No attempt to make sin ok. That I would never even think of that. And to be clear even, I’d say, sin never is ok.

I am not selling any doctrine, more so a false doctrine to nor to anyone. The truth isn’t for sale.

Who are the clowns and liars you are talking about? Ad hominem?

Now, so much with that. Back to the issue. But if you son’t want to address the question, no problem. I understand why.

Tong
R3504

 

[ScottA]

Just as long as you do not attribute to the apostle Paul the sayings popular in Corinth otherwise known as sin city.
.

Of course not. But it is interesting that what they meant for evil...God saw fit to include in His eternal word, for good. Because the law (theirs or God's) is not a rule to live up to, but rather a foundation that we rise above with Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I notice it does not say “ repentance from sin” ....that won’t save anybody anyway....

Perhaps the “ repentance” spoken of means “ Turning to God”—- that will Save

anybody that does it...... “ Turn to me and I will turn to you”.... That is a Promise Of God...

There is no Promise Of God that says, “ Stop Sinning and I will Save you”

There is no Promise Of God that says , “ Be extremely sorrowful and regretful for your Sins and I will save you”

Repentance is not a work that earns salvation. But that hardly means you do not have to repent of yours sins and turn to God to be saved. It just doesn't earn justification or salvation. Just like 'believing' doesn't earn you justification or salvation but is something you must do to be saved. It is a renouncing of sin in a change of mind about sin from which one cries out to God for mercy in faith, believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I notice it does not say “ repentance from sin” ....that won’t save anybody anyway....

Perhaps the “ repentance” spoken of means “ Turning to God”—- that will Save

Repentance is both turning from sin and turning to God. I thought we had settled that with the scriptures already?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So tell us how many times for every kind of sin that one is said to be living in it?

I already gave my answer. Now you give your answer to Paul's teaching.....

...sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.1 Corinthians 6:20-21
​

How many sins do you say constitutes 'live like this'? I gave my answer. What's yours?