new version of OSAS?

[BarneyFife]

Hope you feel better now. :)

Felt fine all along, thanks. :)

 

[BarneyFife]

I didn't see Calvin's name written here. Are you saying Jesus lied when He quoted John 15:5?

To God Be The Glory

If you want a meaningful response, don't use straw men. :)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This side of the Cross , because of what God did “ FOR” us ......we don’t even have to ask for Forgiveness ...it’s already ours

Yes, the believer is forgiven the instant he sins. What he must do is ask forgiveness to restore fellowship with the Spirit. Repentance is not just a change of mind. It's acknowledging and renouncing the sin you have committed. And until the believer does that when he has sinned he will live in a stunted and limited relationship with God.

13He who conceals his sins will not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them will find mercy. Proverbs 28:13​

If he never does that, and he resists the efforts of God to restore that felt relationship he risks slipping into unbelief.

12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. Hebrews 3:12-13

Blessed is the one who always trembles before God, but whoever hardens their heart falls into trouble. Proverbs 28:14
​

 

[BarneyFife]

So you believe I lie. Hence, prove me wrong and show in Scripture where I can read about "free will" as opposed to John 15:5.

Uh, no, I'm simply saying that if you want to be convincing, "Read my lips" might not be your best lead-in.

As far as "free will" goes:

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, OR of obedience unto righteousness? (Romans 6:16)
​

That's just one off the top of my head.

BTW, I'm not interested in a lengthy Calvinism/Arminianism debate. They never go anywhere, so they're boring.

Not that eternal security does, either.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Read my lips: "there is no such a thing as "free will." Jesus said: "without me you can't do anything!"

Oh, don't get me wrong. We can choose what time to get up in the morning, what breakfast to eat, what suit and shoes to wear....etc, but "free will" to choose for God? Nope!

To God Be The Glory

Like rats in a maze, each of us operates in the area God has allowed us to exercise our free will in. When he offers salvation to a person he opens up that part of the maze, so to speak, where we are free to exercise our free will to receive and walk in salvation, or exercise our free will not to receive and walk in salvation. In that scenario, we retain our free will, and God retains his sovereignty.

 

[BarneyFife]

I didn't see Calvin's name written here.

Who said anything about Calvin's name being written? Let's not be needlessly contentious, shall we? Telling people what they mean instead of taking it at face value. I'm not looking to trip anyone up. I just want to avoid the endless droning that goes on in these predestination/free will "discussions."

 

[TheslightestID]

Of course David was repentant , but that was not why he was forgiven.

Luke 13:3 ESV / 3,518 helpful votes
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish

If you want to put your blinders on like I've seen OSAS do a hundred times before, then you will do that, but if you want the truth, Gods word has provided it.

See it or don't, I have done all I can for you.

 

[BarneyFife]

Okay.

The greater explanation, is that "To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven", which changes the meaning of much of what would be considered sin. Killing, for instance: "You shall not murder.", but "he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death" is okay.

There are thousands of other acts that work the same way. Even your example of fornication is subject to interpretation. My point is, just because we consider something to be unacceptable, doesn't make it a sin in every circumstance...even if we judge it to be so from our own perspective. So, regardless of our own thoughts on moral subjects, God's ways are higher, and we don't have the last say. It's not as simple as something always being right or wrong. That is legalism. But God doesn't actually work that way.

Sex outside of marriage is a sin. Situational ethics is the oldest deception in the book.

"You shall not surely die." You'll become wise instead. Worked out great for us, didn't it?

 

[BarneyFife]

Well...thanks for being so clear! Name-calling, and speaking against the spiritualizing nature of God who "is spirit." That's all quite clear.

But no, you are not defining God or salvation or eternal life correctly. Salvation is when one comes to be One with God (just as Jesus prayed), at which point what they are is forever, just as God is forever.

So, yes, "God is not mocked." But you have it all backwards.

Thanks for twisting my words and straightening me out.

 

[BarneyFife]

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Why be insulting?

 

[TheslightestID]

Okay.

The greater explanation, is that "To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven", which changes the meaning of much of what would be considered sin. Killing, for instance: "You shall not murder.", but "he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death" is okay.

There are thousands of other acts that work the same way. Even your example of fornication is subject to interpretation. My point is, just because we consider something to be unacceptable, doesn't make it a sin in every circumstance...even if we judge it to be so from our own perspective. So, regardless of our own thoughts on moral subjects, God's ways are higher, and we don't have the last say. It's not as simple as something always being right or wrong. That is legalism. But God doesn't actually work that way.

All this just to argue there are always exceptions to a rule?

 

[TheslightestID]

Thanks for twisting my words and straightening me out.

Alright, Sunshine.

Hope you are in a better mood today.

 

[TheslightestID]

Salvation.......


2 chronic 7:14

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Exactly. Repent, act like we should and if we mess up again, repeat, and repeat it as often as necessary, and God will forgive....7X70.

There was a time, not too long ago, when that didn't need to even be explained, it was common knowledge. But today, the devil has infiterated the churches, and places like this where the Godly gather, and has tried to confuse people into believing a different gospel, one that will end many up in hell if they are not careful.

 

[mailmandan]

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
And so you are in control, not God, is that right? Well,….

It is certianly up to us if we want to let God work through us or not.

God will not mess with our free will, thus will force nothing, and yes, we are in full control of that will....you really should know that already.

So then I am right in my understanding of your view, that you are in control, not God. And you say that with certainty, but I am not one among that “us” and “we” that you refer to there in your statements.

Besides, who is saying about God forcing something or anything on a person? Certainly not me.

Tong
R3496

 

[Tong2020]

The spirit is responsible for your doing any good that you do so, again, stop taking credit, I mean, ewww.

Romans 8:8-14 GNB
Those who obey their human nature cannot please God. But you do not live as your human nature tells you to; instead, you live as the Spirit tells you to — if, in fact, God's Spirit lives in you.

Who is responsible for your abiding and enduring to the end?

Tong
R3497

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
do you understand what Jesus said in John 8:31?

What's so hard to understand about it? True disciples of Jesus follow him. Fake ones don't. And when true ones don't want to follow him anymore they don't.

Nothing is so hard to understand about it by those who were given understanding of it by God.

Do you not see that Jesus was telling them what it means to believe in Him and truly be His disciples? I do. Jesus was telling them that truly believing Him means abiding to His words which makes one to be His disciple indeed.

<<<And when true ones don't want to follow him anymore they don't.>>>

There is nothing like that said in John 8:31.

Tong
R3498

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
God is not my co-pilot. He is the one in control of my salvation, not me, nor me and Him.

Everybody knows that, lol. You either let him lead you in your salvation, or you don't. It's your choice.

Perhaps everybody knows that. But it seems while you do, He isn’t the one who is in control in your salvation, the pilot so to speak, but is only your co-pilot.

Tong
R3499

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Really? Perhaps you also have a scale for other sins?

So what is at 38 times for the lying Christian?

I don't know. I can't think of a Biblical application for 38. 39 I could, so I picked that. You know, like the 39 lashes.

It isn't about counting your sins. It's about whether or not you live in them as a matter of deliberate lifestyle, like you did before you were born again. Saved people are characterized by their righteousness. Unsaved people are characterized by their unrighteousness. If the people you work and play with don't know you're a Christian, you probably aren't.

Well 38 times is short of the 39 times which you say is when one is an ongoing liar. Thus, when one lies at 38 times, he is not by that scale makes him an ongoing liar, right? So tell us how many times for every kind of sin that one is said to be living in it?

Tong
R3500

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
By the way, what are Christian works that you say there?

It says right in the passage. But you won't like it, lol.

This was the passage quoted:

James 2:17 (NKJV)
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is DEAD.

Where in there are the Christian works?

Tong
R3501