Why was there a reformation?

[theefaith]

Galatians 4:16
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Texas and bow
What’s the bow?

 

[theefaith]

The apostles could speak for themselves. they didn't need a mediator. Jesus mediation is wayyyyy different than what you say Peter's was.

I recall you posting this entire post on another thread. I called you on it then, too, and you said it was a typo.

no I don’t think so
And why does Jesus allow this mediation by Peter?
Why does he associate peter with himself?
Half for you half for me
Where is the tax for the other apostles
Peter is the head of the church on earth in Christ’s place till he returns

 

[theefaith]

Why is it you continue to flood your posts with tons of scriptures or scriptural references that no one is going to read? Even if you were right on whatever point you were trying to make, who could know it from what you post?

Are you helping you, or the Catholic Church, or God, when no one on the forum understands your point but you?

jude 1:3

 

[amadeus]

jude 1:3

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" Jude 1:3

That was Jude's answer which I have read before. His answer, but I have not heard one from you.
What part of the Body of Christ are you?

 

[theefaith]

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" Jude 1:3

That was Jude's answer which I have read before. His answer, but I have not heard one from you.
What part of the Body of Christ are you?

contend for the faith

 

[amadeus]

contend for the faith

Yes, absolutely, but if what you post is never read or cannot be understood what have you accomplished?

You have presented a 'no scripture only' front here at times, but then you say the way to God is through the Catholic Church. When I ask for one church or one priest who is not among those you consider out of step with God like Pope John XXIII and subsequent men claiming the title of Pope, but you never have a positive answer.

Do you believe God is so inept as that, that even one of His people [yourself?] has no more precise answer for anyone who is asking? If you have not answer, at least admit that. Who among us knows all of God's answers? God knows. Silence is an option, but you do not say anything definite nor do you remain silent nor do you ask questions in order to learn.

You say that the Apostles know but cannot or will not name a singles Apostle. You exclude also Pope Francis! Who would you include?

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" I Peter 3:15

 

[theefaith]

Yes, absolutely, but if what you post is never read or cannot be understood what have you accomplished?

You have presented a 'no scripture only' front here at times, but then you say the way to God is through the Catholic Church. When I ask for one church or one priest who is not among those you consider out of step with God like Pope John XXIII and subsequent men claiming the title of Pope, but you never have a positive answer.

Do you believe God is so inept as that, that even one of His people [yourself?] has no more precise answer for anyone who is asking? If you have not answer, at least admit that. Who among us knows all of God's answers? God knows. Silence is an option, but you do not say anything definite nor do you remain silent nor do you ask questions in order to learn.

You say that the Apostles know but cannot or will not name a singles Apostle. You exclude also Pope Francis! Who would you include?

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" I Peter 3:15

when it comes to papal validity all I Can present is my doubts based on their teaching

I don’t know any bishops personally

 

[amadeus]

when it comes to papal validity all I Can present is my doubts based on their teaching

I don’t know any bishops personally

Thank you for the honest answer.

Fortunately, I am not looking a church to attend Catholic or otherwise.

 

[farouk]

Yes...but some teachings developed and some were changed.
Confession is a prime example.
It developed over time to what we have today.
Some priests I know that do not believe purgatory is found in the bible DO believe in confession of sins. I find this very interesting.

Also, your verse is speaking to how we conduct ourselves.
I'm thinking of the beatitudes --- of course we're to follow Jesus' teachings and no denomination I can think of would argue against this.

@GodsGrace In the most accurate sense, of course, the purgatory of sins is a finished work which occurred at the Cross: "He...by Himself purged our sins" (Hebrews 1). :)

 

[Cassandra]

no I don’t think so
And why does Jesus allow this mediation by Peter?
Why does he associate peter with himself?
Half for you half for me
Where is the tax for the other apostles
Peter is the head of the church on earth in Christ’s place till he returns

What mediation?

Jesus also said to Peter "Get thee behind me Satan."

Matt 16:23"But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."

Mark 8:33 "But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men."

 

[theefaith]

Thank you for the honest answer.

Fortunately, I am not looking a church to attend Catholic or otherwise.

we are not called to be successful only faithful

 

[amadeus]

we are not called to be successful only faithful

Indeed, any real success is God's just like any real knowledge is God's! He alone according to what Paul wrote gives any really increase to anyone! But... most everyone continues to open his mouth making absolute declarations about things they believe as if there was no doubt about them. What is the difference between believing and knowing?

 

[theefaith]

What mediation?

Jesus also said to Peter "Get thee behind me Satan."

Matt 16:23"But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."

Mark 8:33 "But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men."

yes Satan was rebuked

what mediation? You may ask

Peter is already administering the kingdom

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as mediator

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this even to the point of a miraculous coin in the fishes mouth

 

[Marymog]

You have it wrong. "You rely on you to convince yourself what the truth is" This statement is obvious you do not understand the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. We rely on the Holy Spirit for the truth. Not us, not ourselves. No need to rely on ourselves when the Holy Spirit speaks to you. In fact if you're relying on yourself (your flesh) you have promoted the flesh over the spirit. It's very simple, the Holy Spirit speaks to the believer, the Holy Spirit convicts the believer, guides us, teaches us, encourages us and many other things.

Riiiiiiiight.....I have it wrong but YOU rely on the Holy Spirit for the "truth"?????????? Sooooooo why is your truth different than @amigo de christo and @Nancy and Joe's down the street and Pastor Mikes at the Main Street Baptist Church and Pastor Carols truth at the Bible only Church and the Lutherans and Methodists etc etc How can ALL of you be guided by the Holy Spirit into the "truth" but all of your "truths" are different "truths" when interpreting the same passage from Scripture?

Can you not see how your theory is bankrupt? Void of logic? Not workable? OH My what the Reformation has done to Christianity.......

 

[amigo de christo]

Riiiiiiiight.....I have it wrong but YOU rely on the Holy Spirit for the "truth"?????????? Sooooooo why is your truth different than @amigo de christo and @Nancy and Joe's down the street and Pastor Mikes at the Main Street Baptist Church and Pastor Carols truth at the Bible only Church and the Lutherans and Methodists etc etc How can ALL of you be guided by the Holy Spirit into the "truth" but all of your "truths" are different "truths" when interpreting the same passage from Scripture?

Can you not see how your theory is bankrupt? Void of logic? Not workable? OH My what the Reformation has done to Christianity.......

Oh my the problem was not in the reformation itself . Some truly did try and correct and then left .
The problem is in men . Jospeh smith himself may have seen the dangers in some christain churches
BUT LOOK at what HE taught . HE was more dangerous than the very churches He even exposed .
To reform and correct is not sin . TO seperate from the company of those who refuse correction is not sin .
Teaching ERROR was the problem . Most reformers , NOT ALL , had their own serious errors .
But not all . I make the same call today , GET OUT of those dangerous churches
for the leaders of most all of the protestant realm and the CC are leading you all to perdition .
The harlot rests not and she has enslaved many a soul . I dont follow luther , but i noticed that the pope gave him
the nick name the wild boar . I wonder what this dangerous deadly Francis would name me if he saw me .
Cause i wont be conforming to this said false unity that IT and others lead in . Not once .

 

[theefaith]

The spirit cannot be responsible for thousands of sects all teaching false doctrines

that’s blasphemy

The one true church’s teaching authority from Christ is without error!

A divine institution: founded by Christ on Peter and the holy apostles and their successors unto the end!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!

Christ and His church are one! Jn 15:1-5 Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Church has authority from Christ!

Church is free from all error!

Mt 16:18 & mt 18:18

Mt 28:19-20

Acts 1:17

acts 8:31 & 35

Lk 10:16

Jn 8:32

Jn 13:20

Jn 15:5

Jn 16:13

Jn 20:21-22

eph 2:20

acts 2:42

1 Tim 3:15

The one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is an extension church of Christ’s ministry of redemption to the whole world and all time!

Christ perpetuates his mission, power, and authority in the holy church!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15


What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Eph 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors, it is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ!
To attack the church is to attack Christ!
Acts 9:4 Jn 20:21-23

 

[theefaith]

The new covenant unity:
Union with Christ the mediator and communion with God and the saints is based on “unity of faith”

“Thee faith” of the new covenant that all must believe without any error, false or strange doctrines foreign to “thee faith” of the new covenant!

“Thee faith” is found 31 times in the New Testament!

Obedience of faith: rom 16:26

Ephesians 4
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. ...

Romans 12:16
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Romans 15:6
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 13:11
Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Philippians 1:27
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Philippians 2:2
Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

1 Peter 3:8
Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism

2 Timothy 4:7
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

One church founded by Jesus Christ!

there is only one!
One God!
One Lord!
One savior!
One faith!
One new covenant!
One kingdom!
One household of faith!
One vineyard!
One church! (Not thousands of sects All teaching different doctrines all on the Bible alone, by the tradition of men)
Only Christ has authority to found the new covenant church! Matt 16:18-19
One shepherd one fold Jn 10:16
1 Tim 3:15 pillar and ground of truth
All men must be taught by the church!

Truth is revealed by God, fully by Christ, and must be proposed for our belief by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 one faith

Unity of faith!

Four Marks of the True Church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Fascinating. So you believe that Martin Luther was inspired by the Holy Spirit. You must be a Lutheran?

LUther was Inspired by the Holy SPirit to teach ONE BIBLICAL DOCTRINE - i.e. Eph 2:8,9. We are saved NOT by "works"/religious activity, but BY FAITH which is gifted by God. HE had a PILE of other stuff wrong (we was, after all, an educated Roman Catholic priest / Augustinain Monk. BUt Salvation by FAITH and not by "religious activity" was his primary message.

By visible church membership, I've been Assembly of God for most of the last 58 years. "Lutherans" have way too much Bells, Smells, and religious pageantry for my taste.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Why was there a reformation?

Because the ROman Catholic system had totally forgotten the Biblcal Gospel, and replaced it with their bells, smells, Traditions, and salvation by WORKS Theologies.

Luther re-introduced salvation BY FAITH - Eph 2:8,9.

SImple as that.

 

[Mantis]

Why was there a reformation? So the people could own Bibles.