Why John 6:37 is grossly misunderstood and misapplied

[Mjh29]

Jesus is a gentleman, and He was/is the friend of tax collectors and sinners.

Of course. And yet he drove sinners out of his temple with a whip

 

[justbyfaith]

So you believe that we must first do the inviting and only then the Holy Spirit comes in? So our invitation is what saves us, not the Holy Spirit?

He must be knocking at the time.

 

[justbyfaith]

Of course. And yet he drove sinners out of his temple with a whip

Your point?

 

[Dave L]

The Calvinist preaches that there is no need to repent or receive Christ. The Bible teaches otherwise.

This is a blatant lie. You cannot be saved apart from living a holy life.

 

[Jun2u]

Hello @Jun2u,

* We must not forget the fact of God's foreknowledge. He knew beforehand those who would believe on Him: and knowing that, He was able to pre-destinate them; To What? To be conformed to the image of His Son. Those so predestined He 'called', 'justified' and 'glorified'.

If God looked in the “corridor of life” ( if there is such a thing), what do you suppose He will see? All dirty rotten sinners without exceptions!

Seeing that the hearts of men are desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9) and most of all, there are None righteous, No, Not one that will seek God, (Romans 3:10-11) then who are those that will believe on God? NONE! An impossibility, correct? But that is God’s assessment of the human race.

Salvation is for 'whosoever will'.

That’s a false statement! The term “whosoever will” has to be qualified. It does NOT mean “anyone” or, “everyone.” “Whosoever” can only be those whom the Father draws and given to Jesus which are all the children of God!!! John 6:44, 37.

This has the same idea as the most read verse in the world and yet the least understood, John 3:16.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Mjh29]

Your point?

There are times when Jesus was indeed kind to sinners, and others when he needed to be firm and put his foot down. I believe that the fate of the souls of his people is one of the 'put the foot down' moments

 

[Enoch111]

Now think this out carefully. If Jesus died for the sins of the whole world why does the Bible teach hell is going to be heavily populated?

You still don't get it. I already said that no one is saved automatically because Christ died for the sins of the whole world. Each and every sinner must come to Christ by faith, repenting and receive Him as Lord and Savior. Since many will not do so, Hell will be heavily populated. But even the Calvinists must obey the Gospel, and the so-called elect are not saved automatically.

Now please pay close attention to the words of Christ.

JOHN 3
DID MOSES LIFT UP THE SERPENT FOR ALL OF ISRAEL?
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

DOES *WHOSOEVER* MEAN ANYONE AND EVERYONE REGARDLESS?
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

DID CHRIST MEAN THE WHOLE WORLD OR NOT?
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

DID CHRIST MEAN THE WHOLE WORLD OR NOT?
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

HERE IS HOW SINNERS ARE SAVED
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

HERE IS WHY SOME WILL GO TO HELL
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

HERE IS WHY SOME REJECT CHRIST
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

HERE IS WHY SOME ACCEPT CHRIST
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Anyone who claims that God and Christ did NOT mean the whole world in this passage make God and Christ liars.

Furthermore if the whole world is guilty before God, then it was imperative that Christ die for the sins of the whole world. Therefore the Bible says that He tasted death for every man, and God will have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

[justbyfaith]

Seeing that the hearts of men are desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9) and most of all, there are None righteous, No, Not one that will seek God, (Romans 3:10-11) then who are those that will believe on God? NONE! An impossibility, correct? But that is God’s assessment of the human race.

You are contending for the idea that none shall be saved. Are you sure that you want to go there? It means that you will not be saved.

That’s a false statement! The term “whosoever will” has to be qualified. It does NOT mean “anyone” or, “everyone.”

Rev 22:17, And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Whosoever means "whosoever".

I believe that the fate of the souls of his people is one of the 'put the foot down' moments

How so? God's people are going to heaven; that makes it more like a "friend of tax collectors and sinners" moments.

If it were a "put the foot down" moment, would it not be God's justice that is exhibited? Which would mean hell and then the lake of fire for the unbelieving/ungodly sinners.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Calvinist preaches that a man can make a decision for Christ, calling on His name; and that this has the possibility of not availing for him, if he is not one of God's elect. Only the decision of God is what determines whether a man shall be born again.

Therefore repentance is not an issue; turning to Christ in faith is not an issue.

The word "repent" therefore is missing in the vocabulary of the Calvinist preacher.

 

[Waiting on him]

I believe that we are saved by grace through faith; and that not of ourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

And that not of ourselves? So why would you make your boast of yourself?

How can this be so unclear

 

[justbyfaith]

And that not of ourselves? So why would you make your boast of yourself?

How can this be so unclear

How am I boasting of myself?

My faith is given to me by God; just not by making me born again first.

Rom 10:17, So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Waiting on him]

How am I boasting of myself?

My faith is given to me by God; just not by making me born again first.

Rom 10:17, So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I agree, this is solely an act of God we have nothing to do with our rebirth. Your boast is in numerous posts where you seem to claim that the faith comes from you.

 

[justbyfaith]

I agree, this is solely an act of God we have nothing to do with our rebirth. Your boast is in numerous posts where you seem to claim that the faith comes from you.

Nope, it comes from God; but we receive faith as an act of the will: we must either receive or reject Jesus Christ when we are faced with the gospel.

I think that the following scripture is appropo:

Mar 9:23, Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Mar 9:24, And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

 

[Waiting on him]

Nope, it comes from God; but we receive faith as an act of the will: we must either receive or reject Jesus Christ when we are faced with the gospel.

I think that the following scripture is appropo:

Mar 9:23, Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Mar 9:24, And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

There you go again

 

[Waiting on him]

There you go again

John 7:17-18

 

[Mal'ak]

I have heard this before, I have a family member who refuses to believe in Christianity, because he says that life means nothing if God already knows who is going to Heaven or Hell. As I said to him, I will say to you, the purpose of this life is to be a witness for ourselves. But the Father knows everything and what will happen for all eternity, right now the Father knows what each of us will be doing in three billion years while we are in eternity with him, just as he knows exactly what we will do tomorrow.

Jeremiah 1:4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Jeremiah 1:6 Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.

Jeremiah 1:7 But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.

Jeremiah 1:8 Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the Lord.

Jeremiah 1:9 Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.

 

[charity]

Nope, it comes from God; but we receive faith as an act of the will: we must either receive or reject Jesus Christ when we are faced with the gospel.

I think that the following scripture is appropo:

Mar 9:23, Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Mar 9:24, And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

'The entrance of Thy words giveth light;
it giveth understanding unto the simple.'
(Psalm 119:130)

'It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you,
they are spirit, and they are life.'
(John 6:63)

'So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God.'
(Rom 10:17)

Hello @justbyfaith,

Just a thought, not in opposition, but a, 'getting-along-side,' for a moment. :)

You say that we receive faith as an act of the will: I believe that it is the result of the entrance of His Word, for it is that which brings 'light', and that which engenders 'faith'. It is His Word in the hand of the Holy Spirit which brings conviction of sin, and of righteousness, isn't it? I don't believe that it is an act of will. I believe it is an awareness of the truth concerning our sinful state, as the result of that' light' shining within: the fearful revelation concerning the consequences of sin; and the grateful acknowledgement of the sacrifice of Christ, as the means of our salvation. There is no decision to be made in the light of that knowledge, but to fall on our knees and lay our hand on the Lamb of God as our sin-bearer, and trust God to keep His promise of life through His name. Regarding repentance, I believe it to be, again, the result of the entrance of light, through the Word of God, in the hand of the Holy Spirit. For we are His workmanship, are we not? It is all His Work.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[justbyfaith]

For me it had to do with an act of the will; and it is funny how John 7:17 was just mentioned for that is a scripture that has a major part to do with my testimony a part of which I have already posted in this thread. But I will go and retrieve it and put it below. When I do, I think that you will see how this fits together.

 

[justbyfaith]

In my own testimony I was tempted to sell my soul to the devil over something that had happened, but I had previously heard the truth of God's word that

Mar 8:36, For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

My response was to say to God, "God, I don't know if You're real; but I am going to start reading Your word and doing what it says and I know that if You're real, You will reveal Yourself to me." Because I couldn't sit on the fence any longer.

God hardly waited a second more. He revealed Himself to me in a powerful way, washing over me in waves of liquid love.

So how does this apply to the current discussion?

Faith came by hearing and hearing by the word of God; but God did not show up until I made a decision.

The whole thing has to do with

Jhn 7:17, If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is a blatant lie. You cannot be saved apart from living a holy life.

That sounds like salvation by works to me. (I peeked in for a second, so sue me ).