Why isn't the shroud of turin in the bible

[Marymog]

Well, first off, the CC does not "teach", they give a homily here and there but it is a "Mass" not a bible teaching. And, since Satan has has his talons in the Church from day one, I could care less who has been around "longer"
If you had read a previous post of mine, you would know that I have NEVER believed in the EXACT same way in ALL areas with ALL of my pastors, teachers and authors. I do NOT believe that ANY church has ALL truth. I believe there will be a VERY small remnant chosen from ALL Christian churches. I never ever said I thought one church was right and one wrong! People leave certain bodies for various reasons. Where ever I left was ALWAYS on good terms and good reasons!

It may be difficult to remember back to your childhood what is read in the mass. If you could remember you would know that it is a "bible teaching". There are three homilies read from the bible EVERYDAY. The priest then teaches what the homily he read is about. The entire mass are words from scripture.

I agree. Satan has had his talons in the Church from day one. However, there was only one TRUE Church at the time. At the time The Church was One with One voice and One doctrine and One truth BEFORE the Reformation. Since the Reformation there are now THOUSANDS of Churches with MULTIPLE voices and MULTIPLE doctrines with all of them saying they have the Truth. So wouldn't the Church that had One voice, One doctrine and One Truth that has been around the longest be the One True Church? The Church spoke as One BEFORE the Reformation. Why do you accept the teachings of men after the Reformation? You shop around for what YOU believe is the Truth instead of accepting the Truth of the church. That is called a cafeteria Christian.

I have read the previous post of yours.....and it concerns me. You make it sound like only you can discern The Truth of Scripture. All the Churches you have attended have, according to your studies of Scripture, have failed to discern the Truth of Scripture. What makes YOU the authority on which church or pastor is right and which one has the Truth?

What were the "good reasons" you left? Because none of those Churches knew the Truth? Only you did?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

I guess I've just been communicating too long to the wrong people. My feelings are not hurt in the least. I'm 75 myself. Keep smiling!
:)

Lol.....once again you double down and make it clear that it is not YOU that has the problem it is the people you are communicating with that have the problem because they are the "wrong people".....whatever that means.

Mary is always smiling.

 

[Marymog]

A,
I think what @Marymog means, and I'd have to agree with her premise, is that we are told to be ready to give an answer
1 Peter 3:15

So, let's say someone asked you WHY you believed in Jesus....
You would say that He spoke to your heart?

He speaks to all the hearts of the born again believer.
So if Jesus doesn't "speak to their heart" the seeker can't be born again?
If He had spoken to their heart --- they woldn't be seeking.

What they're really asking is HOW do you KNOW your "religion" is real and the other ones are "fake". I'm using quotes or this would be pages long.

IOW, Mary is looking for a SOLID reason of why you believe.

A solid reason cannot be a transcendental reason...."He spoke to my heart."


If you can't think of anything more "solid" and explainable to a non-believer....why would they listen to you??

Care to try again?
Or maybe there IS no other reason....

You think the Apostles REALLY saw Jesus after He died?
WHY??

WOW......Thank you. You articulated my thoughts better than I did.

 

[Marymog]

Should I lie about it? It is the truth even if no one else believes it or accepts my words. For a given situation with a definite person I would have other words as God gave me words to speak. Unfortunately, our friend @Marymog wants black and white answers that fit even hypothetical situations. God does not always work like that. Our dear sister sometimes lay traps for people rather than to simply trying to see where people are. She is an intelligent lady with apparently a reasonably good knowledge of history as men write it including religious history from a Catholic viewpoint. Not everyone has that and to expect a person to speak with the knowledge and wisdom of Jesus at all times is unreasonable. The ones who are closest to Jesus are probably rarely theologians or even aware of some of the things she expects from them. We are to be growing, but we won't all grow at the same rate or even in the same areas. We have different abilities and different callings. Some of are babies on milk and other are more mature on meat. God does not put us all into the same mold and neither should we try to do that with others.


Perhaps God does speak to every heart with a special word at times to the one who is really born again. On this forum people will argue vehemently over what it means to be "born again". Some will accuse others of NOT being born again because of their beliefs and so forth. All of the parts of the Body of Christ are not the same. Only God knows all of them.


If they cannot see something worthwhile in my day to day walk, what can I say that would improve their vision? Vision of the things of God as I believe come from the Holy Ghost in us as we eat His flesh and drink His blood.

Why not, if that is what happened? When I first was aware of God as a 6 year old boy getting baptized in the Catholic Church He was simply there and I knew it. How would one describe that to a skeptic so as to satisfy them?

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6

Solid evidence is what the Pharisees looked for in Jesus supposedly. Actually He gave them solid evidence and they still did not believe. It will be different with Marymog? Why? Because she is a believer? If she is then she should understand what faith is and she should understand that God does not speak to people ONLY in a still small voice as He did to Elijah.


Think of? Do I need to conjure up and answer for you or her or anyone... of can I not wait on God and if He wants me to speak will He not give the Word required? A person reads and studies and prays. He eats the flesh and drinks the blood of Jesus. He does these things daily approaching hopefully a time when he is rejoicing in the Lords always and is praying without ceasing. Then when a person appears before him really hungry and thirsty for the righteousness of God will he not be able to properly address that person?

Who needs black and white answers? Is that what God requires? Does He not require rather yielded, surrendered, willing vessels that He can use? Will He not fill the mouth of that vessel with the right words at the right time?

As whether a non-believer will listen, he will if he is hungry and thirsty for the right things and I will speak those things if I am ready to be used of God. Solid evidence that I am ready is known to God. He makes use of what or who is available when He has a need.


If I were to say, yes, would that will satisfy people? What if I lied to people? God knows my heart and would recognize the lie even if no one else did! If I fail the test here, what is my punishment? If I pass the test, what is my reward?

Once again....a whole bunch of words but no answer.

 

[Marymog]

Maybe it makes no sense to you because you use your worldly knowledge, and worldly sight to "explain" the things of God so, I would say that there is no way that YOU could ever help "educate" a person with a low IQ. So, will these "lesser" people never become saved because they are not as bookish as you? @amadeus has been practicing his faith and reading the Word, is sensitive enough to be lead by The Holy Spirit for way longer than you and, he is a very mild mannered man. I can see way more people finding him approachable than you. " A soft word..." Arrogance and a know it all attitude repels...be careful.

Thank you.

Are you suggesting that you understand what he wrote? If so, please show me where he answered my question. He says he answered but I cant find the answer to this question: What evidence did Jesus provide to compel you (amadeaus) to follow and BELIEVE in him? Without the miracles He performed, would you still follow him?

I may not be able to help educate a person with a low IQ, I have never tried so I don't know. What does that have to do with Amadeus not answering my question after I asked it multiple times and in different ways?

Having a "soft word" and being approachable does not make one ready to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear. Amadeus is unable to do that in this situation. I believe that once someone starts talking to him they will walk away scratching their heads, confused. Especially when he tells them that he believes that eating/drinking the body/blood of Christ means reading the bible.

@amadeus (non)answers has actually led me to believe that he does not even believe that Jesus performed any miracles and that Jesus was just a wise sage who imparted His wisdom upon the people of his day. I think Amadeus would love The Jefferson Bible.

Mary

PS....I don't "know it all". Only the Church does and I rely on the Church for the Truth. Scripture tells us that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Not you. Not me. The Church. We are also, according to scripture, supposed to go to the Church to settle our differences. So I ask you Nancy: Which Church would you like us to consult to settle this difference amongst us?

Mary

 

[Willie T]

Amadeus is probably one of the clearest people on this forum.

 

[Marymog]

@Marymog will not be satisfied with whatever answer he gives.
She likes to ask questions , but in all the time that she has been on this Site, I have never once seen her mention what God has done for her personally.

Hi BG,

LOL....there has to be an answer before one can be satisfied with an answer. If you can find his answer please share it with me. The question, in general, that he has not answered is: Without the miracles that he performed (including the resurrection) would you still believe that Jesus is the Son of God?

He said it is written in his heart and some people need miracles. Is @amadeus part of those some people? How did it get written into his heart? I suspect when he read scripture. Sooooo did the miracles attested to in scripture help write it into his heart or did he disregard all the miracles and just look at Jesus as a wise man imparting his wisdom upon the world? There are plenty of those men around and I wouldn't say the are the Son of God.

No one has ever asked me what God has done for me personally. Is there a discussion board we are supposed to go to and share this?

 

[amadeus]

Lol.....once again you double down and make it clear that it is not YOU that has the problem it is the people you are communicating with that have the problem because they are the "wrong people".....whatever that means.

Mary is always smiling.

You, who as I recall often use sarcasm, don't seem to be able to recognize it or acknowledge it in others. Well now I have said that that is what it is. Hold onto that smile!

 

[amadeus]

Once again....a whole bunch of words but no answer.

Six for six!

 

[Marymog]

Amadeus is probably one of the clearest people on this forum.

If his answer is so clear then please reveal it to me.

Patient Mary

 

[Marymog]

Amadeus is probably one of the clearest people on this forum.

Are you suggesting that you understand what he wrote? If so, please show me where he answered my question. He says he answered but I cant find the answer to this question: What evidence did Jesus provide to compel you (amadeaus) to follow and BELIEVE in him? Without the miracles He performed, would you still follow him?

 

[Marymog]

Six for six!

It is sad that you revel in the fact that you are unable to give a reason for the hope that is in you.

Mary

 

[amadeus]

It is sad that you revel in the fact that you are unable to give a reason for the hope that is in you.

Mary

My dear Marymog, when you misunderstand or are uncertain why do you presume the worst? I really was sad as you were sad because we could not communicate. You say that my answers are not answers, but if I were to change them simply to get along, I would then be a liar.

 

[mjrhealth]

No one ever claimed to be God except Jesus.
This is one of the reasons Christianity is different from all other religions.

I mean "sent of God"....He was a Godly figure that tried to make man aspire to his higher self. Krishna would be another one... Maybe others but those are the two I know best.

you saying God sent them to delude the world into following them??

did God send them??

 

[Helen]

(1)

If you can find his answer please share it with me. The question, in general, that he has not answered is: Without the miracles that he performed (including the resurrection) would you still believe that Jesus is the Son of God?

(2)

If his answer is so clear then please reveal it to me.

Patient Mary

You are just being obtuse...and playing games.

Answer to number 1 is YES!

Answer to number 2 is - You just don't like is answer, so you just keep repeating the question. How come the rest of us understand what Amadeus is saying, and you keep pretending not to!!

You said to Willie in your post 150 -
Quote...
"If his answer is so clear then please reveal it to me."

And there we have it.
God has either revealed Himself to you and speaks to you, or He has not.
It's called FAITH.
We are people of faith, not a people who have to see signs and miracles before we can believe, ...like Thomas.

We are called believers because we believe. Not because we see something to convince us.

 

[Marymog]

(1)

(2)



You are just being obtuse...and playing games.

Answer to number 1 is YES!

Answer to number 2 is - You just don't like is answer, so you just keep repeating the question. How come the rest of us understand what Amadeus is saying, and you keep pretending not to!!

You said to Willie in your post 150 -
Quote...
"If his answer is so clear then please reveal it to me."

And there we have it.
God has either revealed Himself to you and speaks to you, or He has not.
It's called FAITH.
We are people of faith, not a people who have to see signs and miracles before we can believe, ...like Thomas.

We are called believers because we believe. Not because we see something to convince us.

Huh? Yes means you can find his answer?

If you found it why did you not share it with me? All you have to do is cut and paste from his quote

 

[Helen]

.

 

[Marymog]

Answer to number 2 is - You just don't like is answer, so you just keep repeating the question. How come the rest of us understand what Amadeus is saying, and you keep pretending not to!!

us.

How can I not like his answer when I have made it clear I don't think he answered? Can you clarify? Please.

 

[Marymog]

My dear Marymog, when you misunderstand or are uncertain why do you presume the worst? I really was sad as you were sad because we could not communicate. You say that my answers are not answers, but if I were to change them simply get along, I would then be a liar.

I haven't misunderstood anything. I have flat out told you that I don't see an answer to my questions. But once again you put the blame on someone else....little old Marymog.

I feel I am communicating quite well. I DON"T SEE AN ANSWER. How much clearer can that be? But once again you blame me for not communicating well instead of saying "Maybe I am not communicating well". I think it is a man thing....My spouse and brother does the same thing occasionally.

I never asked you to change your answers. I only asked you to answer in a way that I could understand. You could simply and CLEARLY say, "No, the miracles that Jesus performed did not compel me to believe he is the Son of God. It was His words". That is what I THINK your answer is.

Or you could clarify your bloviating and say, "No, not JUST the miracles. It was the Resurrection that sealed the deal for me". Or "Without the miracles AND the Resurrection I would not have believed him." Common words and sentences from you that are easy to understand would be nice for a change.

You suggesting that to CLARIFY or better ARTICULATE your answer would make you a liar? How does clarifying or better articulating what you believe make you a liar? I don't understand....

Mary

 

[Marymog]

.

?????