Why do you believe that, after death, it's too late for Jesus to save people?

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, so is God. God sent Jesus to save ALL beings from forever death and punishment.

But not everyone one will be saved.

God is a universalist in that he died for everyone

he is also a just God. And will not just allow everyone to enter his presence.. his death must be applied to you. You must chose to believe.

if yu do not. You will remain condemned.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Believers is a subset of ALL people.

Um no it is not. Jesus said himself.

whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.

Jesus is the savior of all people because he will, eventually, save ALL people, albeit many after death. If Jesus doesn't actually save ALL people then Paul's statement is wrong.

No. There can be no salvation after death. You have lost that ability and hope. You died in a state of unbelief, you will be delievered to god for judgment not raised by him to salvation

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're wrong. Those conditions WILL be met. Some will indeed be sent to the Lake of Fire, but they will not remain there forever. What do you think 1 Corinthians 15:25 is saying?

No

Your wrong

 

[Windmill Charge]

Why do you believe that repentance isn't possible after death?

A characteristic of the dead is they are unable to change.
It is the living who have the ability to change.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

There is no scripture that says or suggests that people are automatically sent to Hell for not believing in Jesus in the time allotted. Jesus can, does, and will save people that didn't follow him while in this world.

Many verses state this. Other's have already told you this (Heb. 9:28 ; Luke 16:26) It's the theme of the New Testament. We are either saved from death or not based on our belief in Jesus while we are still living.
Physical death is part of the judgment that we all suffer; but spiritual death is tied to that, unless one has been born again during this life. After death, those in Hades cannot experience any thing good. Their is only darkness ... no love, no hope, no gospel being preached by dead souls. Actually scripture also says there is no remembrance of God at all. This is the state that we are saved from, the judgment of death.
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3:18
Ther is no condemnation fir those who are in Christ. (Rom. 8:1). Christ is not available after death. There is no such place as Purgatory. That is a false belief, not in the Canon of our 66 books.
Folks who reject Jesus until their last breath, forfeit their souls.
Jesus says, "Fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Matt. 10:28
In Hades, the underworld, their is only fear and torment, no hope, because there is only darkness - NO LIGHT. Jesus is the LIGHT and Life of men, and He offers Life.
"I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me will live, even though they die" John 11:25-26

 

[Behold]

There is no scripture that says or suggests that people are automatically sent to Hell for not believing in Jesus

The end result of dying, having never been born again, is that you wont be going to Heaven, as this person is not "In Christ", and "one with God'.

So, they remain, this.......as Jesus told you......>>"YOU are of YOUR Father THE DEVIL, and the LUSTS of your FATHER, you shall do".

So, THAT ONE, does not belong to God, so THAT ONE< is here.......John 3:36, and that one wont be going to Heaven, after they die.

What does that mean?
It means that there is only one other eternal destination for them.
There is no other place for them to go, @NotTheRock .

There is no "LIMBO" There is no "PURGATORY".........as these are Catholic Theology Fantasies.

And one more, just in case you dont know.... = The GRAVE is not the end of you... its just the door that leads to where you , me, us all, will spend our eternity.

So....There is HEAVEN and HELL, found after you die.

That's it., and everyone is going to be going to one or the other.

The way to NOT go to HELL is this..

"All that believe in Jesus shall be saved".

Saved from what? = Not just your sins.

So, SAVED, from what else?

Ahh....

See it?

 

[NotTheRock]

Are you even sure of what you believe?

You misunderstand the scriptures and you don't know Jesus.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You misunderstand the scriptures and you don't know Jesus.

Point your post to a mirror. Then read it back to yourself.

then take the words at heart. and repent.

 

[GodsGrace]

You misunderstand the scriptures and you don't know Jesus.

That's very nice of you....
after 3 pages of responding to you USING SCRIPTURE and common sense.

Guess you're not up to the task....
So why start a thread on a topic you're UNABLE to handle??

And why be so afraid of what the NT ACTUALLY STATES if you're a believer in Jesus??

 

[RedFan]

John 5:28-29 (NRSV) says: "Do not be astonished at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."

Those of us who believe that one goes to judgment immediately after death need to ask ourselves, Is this applicable only to those who died before Christ?

No, it is all inclusive.

Then good works resurrect the worker to life and evil works resurrect the worker to condemnation, end of story? Regardless of belief in Christ? That needs some explanation.

So, back to @ChristinaL who said

There is no delay. You go to your judgment immediately. There is no limbo period. The dead, saved or unsaved are certainly conscious but you cant repent after you die. The bible spells it out clearly in many places repent or perish. Not ok if you die unsaved you still have a chance afterwards

What do you think? Still an immediate judgment, or is "the hour" coming for that?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then good works resurrect the worker to life and evil works resurrect the worker to condemnation, end of story? Regardless of belief in Christ? That needs some explanation.

No belief resurrects worker to life unbelief to death. Works are a byproduct of belief

Sin is taken care of the only thing left is faith or no faith John 3 makes this clear

So, back to @ChristinaL who said


What do you think? Still an immediate judgment, or is "the hour" coming for that?

If your in unbelief you are condemned. Right here and right niw

But you can repent. Up until the time you die

 

[RedFan]

No belief resurrects worker to life unbelief to death. Works are a byproduct of belief

Sin is taken care of the only thing left is faith or no faith John 3 makes this clear

If your in unbelief you are condemned. Right here and right niw

But you can repent. Up until the time you die

So, John 5:28-29 is literally untrue, and must be qualified? Ditto for Matt. 6:14 ("“For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you”)? How many others?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, John 5:28-29 is literally untrue, and must be qualified? Ditto for Matt. 6:14 ("“For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you”)? How many others?

No it’s true. It’s descriptive

Gods people also forgive others.

Keep trying you may get it

 

[RedFan]

No it’s true. It’s descriptive

Gods people also forgive others.

Keep trying you may get it

Well, that's pretty condescending!

Try my question, please. John 5:28-29, and Matthew 6:14, have verses that say "If you do X, then Y results." If you do X, then you are resurrected to life. If you do X, then your sins will be forgiven. No qualification is attached to these verses. And the question I have for you is, ARE THESE PROMISES TRUE OR NOT? If you add any qualification at all (such as "Well, but ya gotta believe in Christ too" or "Well, without faith in Christ you can't really do X") then they are NOT true.

 

[NotTheRock]

That's very nice of you....
after 3 pages of responding to you USING SCRIPTURE and common sense.

Guess you're not up to the task....
So why start a thread on a topic you're UNABLE to handle??

And why be so afraid of what the NT ACTUALLY STATES if you're a believer in Jesus??

That's very nice of you....
after 3 pages of responding to you USING SCRIPTURE and common sense.

Guess you're not up to the task....
So why start a thread on a topic you're UNABLE to handle??

And why be so afraid of what the NT ACTUALLY STATES if you're a believer in Jesus??

Anybody who thinks that Jesus tortures people forever CLEARLY does not know him.

 

[GodsGrace]

Then good works resurrect the worker to life and evil works resurrect the worker to condemnation, end of story? Regardless of belief in Christ? That needs some explanation.

So, back to @ChristinaL who said


What do you think? Still an immediate judgment, or is "the hour" coming for that?

Hi RedFan,
What is your understanding of John 5:28-29
I use these verses a lot when discussing good works.
Some feel that good works are either:
not necessary or
they are a result of salvation.

Jesus spoke about salvation maybe 2 or 3 times,
but He spoke a great deal about the Kingdom of God and how to be a part of it. (here on earth).

I'd like your comments.

 

[GodsGrace]

Anybody who thinks that Jesus tortures people forever CLEARLY does not know him.

Well, then NotTheRock....
Looks like very few persons know Him, doesn't it?

And, yes, God is a God of love....
unfortunately for those that believe as you do...
He is also a JUST GOD.

If you know what JUST means,,,,
then you'd realize that your doctrine it unattainable and unbiblical.

YOU cannot change the character of God...
He is what He is.

 

[RedFan]

Hi RedFan,
What is your understanding of John 5:28-29
I use these verses a lot when discussing good works.
Some feel that good works are either:
not necessary or
they are a result of salvation.

Jesus spoke about salvation maybe 2 or 3 times,
but He spoke a great deal about the Kingdom of God and how to be a part of it. (here on earth).

I'd like your comments.

I would have to start with adding the three preceding verses in John 5 to the mix:

24 Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgement, but has passed from death to life.

25 ‘Very truly, I tell you, the hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself; 27 and he has given him authority to execute judgement, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not be astonished at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

I see v. 24 as addressed to those who are physically living, v. 25 as addressed to the physically living but spiritually dead, and v. 28-29 as addressed to those already physically dead. Those who while physically alive hear and receive and accept the voice of the Son of God have eternal life. Those already in their graves who never had that chance are judged by a different standard -- the goodness of wickedness of the lives they led.

 

[GodsGrace]

I would have to start with adding the three preceding verses in John 5 to the mix:

24 Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgement, but has passed from death to life.

25 ‘Very truly, I tell you, the hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself; 27 and he has given him authority to execute judgement, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not be astonished at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

I see v. 24 as addressed to those who are physically living, v. 25 as addressed to the physically living but spiritually dead, and v. 28-29 as addressed to those already physically dead. Those who while physically alive hear and receive and accept the voice of the Son of God have eternal life. Those already in their graves who never had that chance are judged by a different standard -- the goodness of wickedness of the lives they led.

Very interesting!
Later....must leave.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well, that's pretty condescending!

Sorry, but its the way I feel with the way you keep trying to answer me.

Lets go back to the beginning

you said

Those of us who believe that one goes to judgment immediately after death need to ask ourselves, Is this applicable only to those who died before Christ?

Focusing on the question, is it applicable ony to those who died before christ. My response was no, it is all inclusive.

Now unless you believe people were saved differently before Christ, and we are saved a different way today. I would hope you would have agreed with me, But you just keep arguing.. so I tried to take you into the two passages. But you continue to argue. So I am not sure what your looking for.

Try my question, please. John 5:28-29, and Matthew 6:14, have verses that say "If you do X, then Y results." If you do X, then you are resurrected to life. If you do X, then your sins will be forgiven.

But your wrong, It does not say if you do this you will get X. It says those who get Y do X and those who do not get Y do not do X. It is a descriptive passage, not a prescriptive passage.

Those who have eternal life do good works. They do not sin. John repeats this very thing in his epistle when he said he who sins has never seen or known God. Those who are born of God do not live in sin..

No qualification is attached to these verses.

Your right, no qualification is attached, they are decriptive. They describe the people who have eternal life. As apposed to those who do not

And the question I have for you is, ARE THESE PROMISES TRUE OR NOT?

And I answered you. But you still are not getting to the origional question. Is salvation different today that it was before Christ. I answered. You have not responded to my answer of no it is not different, it is all inclusive.

If you add any qualification at all (such as "Well, but ya gotta believe in Christ too" or "Well, without faith in Christ you can't really do X") then they are NOT true.

No. Only if we falsly interpr3et it as it appears you are tryign to do by saying they are pre-requisites. We get eternal life beause we do good works. This is not found in scripture. At the least, if this is true, we are under law not grace