Why Christians Disagree

[Taken]

Vince said: ↑
Lets say you had a child that was walking alone in the woods and came to a fork in the road and one way meant assured destruction (child eating monkeys or something) and the other meant safety. Lets say you knew which road was safe, which way was destruction and you could communicate that to the child, would you? Or would you do like god and tell hundreds of people through a letter that was unclear and had them tell the child which way to go. So the child has free will to decide which way to go and has to make this decision based on conflicting information from people that claim to know.

First of all...
I have no problem with hypotheticals...
Like what would you do "IF".

Secondly...I do have a problem with your presentation...and here's why.

Your posts imply, you are wanting Converted men to give you how to come into trust and belief and receive favorable gifts from God...
While putting in a slam against God.

It is like saying; you got what you know from your Mom. I want to know what you know, But sheesh, your Mom is a failure at teaching her knowledge to me..

Forget the hypothetical, and stop asking WHY this and WHY that....

and Speak what it is YOU WANT.

It is a Waste of Time until you have declared what you want and you are willing to examine what you DO to receive what you want.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Vince]

First of all...
I have no problem with hypotheticals...
Like what would you do "IF".

Secondly...I do have a problem with your presentation...and here's why.

Your posts imply, you are wanting Converted men to give you how to come into trust and belief and receive favorable gifts from God...
While putting in a slam against God.

It is like saying; you got what you know from your Mom. I want to know what you know, But sheesh, your Mom is a failure at teaching her knowledge to me..

Forget the hypothetical, and stop asking WHY this and WHY that....

and Speak what it is YOU WANT.

It is a Waste of Time until you have declared what you want and you are willing to examine what you DO to receive what you want.

Glory to God,
Taken

I want sufficient evidence to believe god exists, if there is sufficient evidence he exists then I want god to be more moral than how the bible describes god. If there is presented to me sufficient evidence to believe and he is as the bible describes him then I would seriously have to think about following or promoting that god. I believe a god worth following would be at least be more moral than myself.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I want sufficient evidence to believe god exists, if there is sufficient evidence he exists then I want god to be more moral than how the bible describes god. If there is presented to me sufficient evidence to believe and he is as the bible describes him then I would seriously have to think about following or promoting that god. I believe a god worth following would be at least be more moral than myself.

You say you want it, but you're unwilling to put in the real study to get it. Such a weak wanting inherently equates to nothing. Real learning in any field (philosophy, science, theology, art, etc) requires study and effort.

 

[CoreIssue]

God is merciful....eternal torture is a myth....an old stratagem to get people in the pews.

God is love.

You say you want it, but you're unwilling to put in the real study to get it. Such a weak wanting inherently equates to nothing. Real learning in any field (philosophy, science, theology, art, etc) requires study and effort.

Coming from someone within the cult of mormonism.

 

[Vince]

You say you want it, but you're unwilling to put in the real study to get it. Such a weak wanting inherently equates to nothing. Real learning in any field (philosophy, science, theology, art, etc) requires study and effort.

I told you what I want. What evidence do you have to believe I lied?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I told you what I want. What evidence do you have to believe I lied?

Wanting without willing to do the work to study amounts to no results (in any field).
You have made clear that you're not willing to do the work to study, hence you wanting to learn will amount to no results.

 

[Vince]

Wanting without willing to do the work to study amounts to no results (in any field).
You have made clear that you're not willing to do the work to study, hence you wanting to learn will amount to no results.

Where did I say I was unwilling to do work?

 

[Willie T]

This is a good question. We can start with Solipsism. The idea that we can only know that our own minds exist. The mind in a jar idea. I cannot know for sure that there are other minds, neither can you. I could just be making everything up. There has not been a solution to this problem. So at this point you and I have to make a decision. I have made a decision to believe there are other minds and that I am interacting with real people, reality is as it seems. That seems to me to be the best answer.

Of course our minds are made of matter and chemicals. Take away the brain and the mind no longer exists. No mind has ever existed without a brain. My mind can learn and describe nature around me. Other minds have come up with ways to efficiently gain and interpret data through science so we can know things with as much certainty as we can. We cannot know 100% that gravity will always act as we have described it our equations, but we do have a high confidence level that it will based on past experience. This is how we gain knowledge, we also gain knowledge through experience. I would not know what love feels like if I did not love another.

You have a problem because you claim to have knowledge you have insufficient evidence for. I don't. I want to believe things are true because there are sufficient reasons to do so. Believing a god exists does not meet that criteria in my opinion.

Solipsism? That's kind of dumb. Because then you would be arguing either with something you feel cannot exist, or you would be arguing with yourself. LOL

 

[Dan57]

This is not true. Not all people that claim to be Christians agree with this. See Red Letter Christians that don't believe in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. They just believe god forgives without a sacrifice. There are some that call themselves Christians that don't believe he rose from the dead.

I'd only say that anyone professing to be a Christian who doesn't believe that the sacrifice of Christ atoned for sin or claim that he didn't rise from the tomb, is No Christian at all.. That's like claiming to be a conservative but voting for Bernie Sanders. :)

 

[FatalMoves]

Hey you guy's want to see a funny YouTube clip.

Brb.

 

[FatalMoves]

 

[Dan57]

Can you count on that promise? Christian's don't know what heaven is even like.

We have a brief outline of heaven; No pain, no suffering, no death, no strife, no corruption, etc.. Revelation 21 describes the New Jerusalem. And 'Yes', I'm guessing every Christian is counting on the promise.

 

[FatalMoves]

We have a brief outline of heaven; No pain, no suffering, no death, no strife, no corruption, etc.. Revelation 21 describes the New Jerusalem. And 'Yes', I'm guessing every Christian is counting on the promise.

Yet the Angels could fall from heaven.

 

[historyb]

The rapture

Is there a rapture or not?

Absolutely not

 

[farouk]

Absolutely not

1 Thessalonians 4.16-17; John 14.3; 1 Corinthians 11.26.

 

[FatalMoves]

Absolutely not

Okay, then explain these verses.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 15According to the LORD's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the LORD, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the LORD himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the LORD in the air. And so we will be with the LORD forever.

 

[historyb]

This is untrue. The Catholic Church in the Council of Trent and Vatican II deny salvation by grace alone and requires works. Seventh day Adventists require works as well if you look at how they define faith. These people call themselves Christians.

Wrong. Catholics deny Salvation by Faith alone, not by grace alone. Salvation is by God's Grace trough faith but not alone.

The Catholic Church does not now, nor has it ever, taught a doctrine of salvation by works…that we can “work” our way into Heaven. Additionally, nowhere in the Bible does it teach that we are saved by “faith alone.” The only place in all of Scripture where the phrase “faith alone” appears is in James 2:24, where it says that we are not justified (or saved) by faith alone. The Bible says very clearly that we are not saved by faith alone.Works do have something to do with our salvation. Numerous passages in the New Testament that I know of about judgment says we will be judged by our works, not by whether or not we have faith alone. We see this in Romans 2, Matthew 15 and 16, 1 Peter 1, Revelation 20 and 22, 2 Corinthians 5, and many, many more verses. If we are saved by faith alone, why does 1 Corinthians 13:13 say that love is greater than faith? Shouldn’t it be the other way around? As Catholics we believe that we are saved by God’s grace alone. We can do nothing, apart from God’s grace, to receive the free gift of salvation. We also believe, however, that we have to respond to God’s grace. Protestants believe that, too. However, many Protestants believe that the only response necessary is an act of faith; whereas, Catholics believe a response of faith and works is necessary…or, as the Bible puts it in Galatians 5:6, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is of any avail, but faith working through love…” Faith working through love…just as the Church teaches.
​

Salvation | Catholics Come Home

As a former Catholic I still believe what is in the paragraph that I quoted

 

[historyb]

Okay, then explain these verses.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 15According to the LORD's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the LORD, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the LORD himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the LORD in the air. And so we will be with the LORD forever.

Just what it says. The rapture is a deceptive doctrine thought of in the 1800's by Darby. I am not a evangelical and do not believe things they do like the rapture or dispensationalism

 

[Helen]

You only speak to yourself here.

No not quite...he can speak for me too!

@Nancy Well said in post #119 Yay!! :)

 

[FatalMoves]

Just what it says. The rapture is a deceptive doctrine thought of in the 1800's by Darby. I am not a evangelical and do not believe things they do like the rapture or dispensationalism

So what's the meaning of meeting the Lord in the air.