Why Christians Disagree

[Vince]

Would all atheists agree on the nature or character of the God they don't believe in?

Atheists make no claim on what a god would be like. We are not even saying gods don’t exist. We just want evidence.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

When scientists disagree they have a method to determine who is right. There is evidence that points to a conclusion. Christians don’t have this mechanism.

Salvation is so important it determines your final state for eternity. So why does god let that doctrine get so messed up? Some say we are saved my faith, some by works, some by different methods. Isn’t that important enough to god to clear up?

Oh as a professional scientist, I will tell you scientists disagree a LOT. Yes there is the core of the scientific method, but different scientists interpret the same results differently, and you'll have different experiments that give seemingly contradictory results. For every 1 scientific question we have an answer to, there are 3 which there are contradictory part-answers to, and 20 we don't remotely have answers to.

this is not true. I can go online and find 5 different methods of christian salvation that contradict each other. Some require works some require perfection etc.

With all due respect: are you really paying attention to any of them? Like with science, theological study requires studying-- you need to take the time to understand.

Atheists make no claim on what a god would be like. We are not even saying gods don’t exist. We just want evidence.

Same with theists. Again, you got to pay attention and listen to what the questions are, the methodologies behind things, the certainty of various results, etc. Just like with science.

 

[historyb]

My question to Christians is why do Christians disagree on so much?

We're Human that's why.

 

[Vince]

With all due respect: are you really paying attention to any of them? Like with science, theological study requires studying-- you need to take the time to understand.

Wow. So your answer is you just don’t know how to study well enough? I think you are unwilling to accept that there are different theologies of salvation that contradict each other. Is this how you do science? Do you just assume you know better than another and tell them to go study some more?

Oh as a professional scientist, I will tell you scientists disagree a LOT. Yes there is the core of the scientific method, but different scientists interpret the same results differently, and you'll have different experiments that give seemingly contradictory results. For every 1 scientific question we have an answer to, there are 3 which there are contradictory part-answers to, and 20 we don't remotely have answers to.

I never said scientists do not agree. There is peer review, experimentation, etc. that can lead to a consensus. In Christianity you don’t have that.

 

[Enoch111]

Atheists make no claim on what a god would be like. We are not even saying gods don’t exist. We just want evidence.

Not really. The evidence is all there, but wilful blindness trumps evidence. As Jesus said (which would be applicable to atheists): "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

What was He saying? The Old Testament (Moses and the Prophets) is sufficient evidence for anyone who wants evidence. But even if you literally saw a man raised from the dead, you would NOT believe that there is a God and Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

in the mean time god watches the confusion that leads many to eternal torture.

God is merciful....eternal torture is a myth....an old stratagem to get people in the pews.

God is love.

 

[Helen]

Hi Grace.

Hello there my new friend :)

Atheist, Agnostic, unbeliever, or whatever....none of them can run far enough to out run God's love.
But, as this thread is about disagreements....not many of my "christian" friends here will agree with me... But @Nancy and @aspen and maybe @bbyrd009

Most others believe in the hellfire stuff... but that's not the God I find in The Book. He started all this back in Eden...not to lose 95% of mankind...but to Win.

I'm never quite sure which part of the love of God that my friends here don't like!!

Bless you....Helen

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Wow. So your answer is you just don’t know how to study well enough? I think you are unwilling to accept that there are different theologies of salvation that contradict each other. Is this how you do science? Do you just assume you know better than another and tell them to go study some more?

I meant no offense or personal attack, and apologize if something inadvertently came across that way. I simply didn't know to what degree you have studied theology, hence why I asked the question.
For example, you cite "salvation by works", and having studied dozens of different Christian schools of thought, I can tell you that there are zero whom believe in salvation by works Rather, the claim of "salvation by works" is usually a straw man argument made to quickly misrepresent another's beliefs.

I didn't know if you were interested in this deeper layer of study, hence my asking.

I never said scientists do not agree. There is peer review, experimentation, etc. that can lead to a consensus. In Christianity you don’t have that.

Keyword: *can* lead. Frequently doesn't happen at all, or takes lifetimes. In the long meantime there can very results which appears to be contradictory.
Christians have their epistemological methodologies as well.

 

[Episkopos]

Atheists make no claim on what a god would be like. We are not even saying gods don’t exist. We just want evidence.

The evidence is so overwhelming that a blind man could see it....but God is so wise that He can hide in plain sight so that only the blind are able to see. The wisdom of God is so great that many people can't see the obvious.

 

[Helen]

this is not true. I can go online and find 5 different methods of christian salvation that contradict each other. Some require works some require perfection etc.

I would agree with that! Who can deny it!!
What a mixed up lot we are
But the thing is ...However the gospel is preached , whatever flavour ...Jesus Christ is central.

Welcome to the Site. Nice that you have FatalMoves here as a buddy.

 

[Helen]

yes but by then most will be burning in hell. Too late.

IF that is the "gospel" you believe!!

ie "Gospel meaning = Good News.

 

[Helen]

God is merciful....eternal torture is a myth...( hell forever= ).an old stratagem to get people in the pews.

God is love.

AMEN!!! Glad you said that!

...

 

[brakelite]

Atheists make no claim on what a god would be like. We are not even saying gods don’t exist. We just want evidence.

As a corporate body, perhaps not. But personally, there would surely be numerous opinions , innumerable number of opinions, as to the type of god you reject. Mostly I suspect based on the sometimes warped divergence of opinion within Christianity itself as to what God is like. And like you, I also reject some of those views, as is evidenced by the many times I have disagreed with others here on this forum which divergence of opinion sparked your original question.
The point I am making is this. How can atheism possibly come to any agreement on who God is, what He is like, etc when those who profess to know Him, can't agree? Your challenge to the church is therefore fully justified, however, there is a truth to be known and the promise of scripture is that you can find it if you search deeply enough and earnestly enough, and you are willing to forsake the junk in favour of what light you receive. I think therefore the short answer to your question, why so much disagreement with Christianity as to some even basic doctrines, is that far too many are unwilling to give up the junk. So if they retain the junk, God offers no further light, and they remain in darkness.

 

[brakelite]

in the mean time god watches the confusion that leads many to eternal torture.

And you said atheists don't have an opinion on what God is like???? Here is a classic example of what I am talking about...a warped opinion of god based on Christianity's warped opinion.

 

[Enoch111]

God is merciful....eternal torture is a myth....an old stratagem to get people in the pews.

1. First of all the term *torture* as applied to God is blasphemous, since only evil men torture other men, not the Judge of all the earth who only does right.

2. The Bible is very clear that God is BOTH merciful and wrathful. A good example is Abraham pleading for God to be merciful to Sodom and God agreeing each time. But when not even ten righteous people could be found in that wicked city, God poured out HIS RIGHTEOUS WRATH upon Sodom and Gomorrah: Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven (Gen 19:24).

Now are You so presumptuous as to accuse God of *torture* in this matter? And notice that fire and brimstone "from the LORD" -- the components of Hell -- were used by God in His righteous judgment. But Episkopos and his ilk would point their fingers at God and say "THAT WAS TORTURE".

3. You are also making God and Christ liars, since the Lord Jesus Christ Himself told us that eternal Hell (Gehenna -- the Lake of Fire) was created for the devil and his angels (and of course unrepentant sinners subsequently). And you accuse Christ of perpetrating a myth!

So what you are telling the Christian world is "I DO NOT BELIEVE GOD AND CHRIST" (even though I claim to do so).

 

[Dan57]

I am new here. Hope to stay a while.

My question to Christians is why do Christians disagree on so much?

Fundamentally, all Christians believe salvation comes through our belief in Christ (John 3:16). We all believe he died for our transgression, rose from the dead, and is coming back in judgement. So there's no disagreement on the basics, but just some different interpretations of the more minor stuff. Its up to each individual to study, learn, and grow in the faith. No ones understanding is perfect, but as long as you accept the teachings and example of Christ, we are promised eternal life.

 

[FatalMoves]

Hello there my new friend :)

Atheist, Agnostic, unbeliever, or whatever....none of them can run far enough to out run God's love.
But, as this thread is about disagreements....not many of my "christian" friends here will agree with me... But @Nancy and @aspen and maybe @bbyrd009

Most others believe in the hellfire stuff... but that's not the God I find in The Book. He started all this back in Eden...not to lose 95% of mankind...but to Win.

I'm never quite sure which part of the love of God that my friends here don't like!!

Bless you....Helen

I have a nasty flu, but I'll say something. From a biblical point of view there is cause to believe in eternal hell fire.

 

[FatalMoves]

1 Corinthians 1:10 ESV
I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

 

[FatalMoves]

1. First of all the term *torture* as applied to God is blasphemous, since only evil men torture other men, not the Judge of all the earth who only does right.

2. The Bible is very clear that God is BOTH merciful and wrathful. A good example is Abraham pleading for God to be merciful to Sodom and God agreeing each time. But when not even ten righteous people could be found in that wicked city, God poured out HIS RIGHTEOUS WRATH upon Sodom and Gomorrah: Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven (Gen 19:24).

Now are You so presumptuous as to accuse God of *torture* in this matter? And notice that fire and brimstone "from the LORD" -- the components of Hell -- were used by God in His righteous judgment. But Episkopos and his ilk would point their fingers at God and say "THAT WAS TORTURE".

3. You are also making God and Christ liars, since the Lord Jesus Christ Himself told us that eternal Hell (Gehenna -- the Lake of Fire) was created for the devil and his angels (and of course unrepentant sinners subsequently). And you accuse Christ of perpetrating a myth!

So what you are telling the Christian world is "I DO NOT BELIEVE GOD AND CHRIST" (even though I claim to do so).

Tormented in presence of Messengers and the Lamb

 

[FatalMoves]

AMEN!!! Glad you said that!

...View attachment 5477

So am I.