Why Christians Disagree

[bbyrd009]

"lack of belief in God" xlates to "belief in no God," even if most Christian belief in God is made into a self-serving belief I guess. Atheism is def a religion to many.

Wadr I can't imagine what you seek to accomplish here, any absolute proof of God would be errant anyway. Did you come here to argue? Do you think you will convert anyone here? So ppl here have a diff def of "faith" right now than Paul likely did, so what?

 

[bbyrd009]

Faith: persuasion and belief
hopefully "scientific method" is brought out there, but I'll keep looking for the one I had in mind. Paul was not discussing Beliefs, nor interested in them any longer imo. All of his beliefs had already been exploded I guess
Scripture Theory for Beginners; An Introduction
I know Scientific Method is in here, still not the one I was looking for tho.

Anyway this is not meant for you Vince, and not meant for anyone who has been taken captive by vain philosophy at "eternal" either I guess, iow no one reading this should prolly be reading that! HA!

 

[Vince]

That too is a belief. What you have said in your heart is "I refuse to believe that there are any gods, including the one true God".

Nope. I have not said that at all.

That's similar to the Flat Earth Society whose members say within themselves "I refuse to believe that the earth is a globe".

Nope again. There is sufficient evidence that the earth is a globe and that it is not flat. Their belief of a flat earth is in direct contradiction to the evidence in my opinion. Not the same with god in my opinion.

 

[Vince]

This whole evidence line is just a cop out.

People love, trust, and believe in things and other people all the time. But here you are not willing to give the creator of the universe, your maker, what you have undoubtedly given any number of credit card companies.

You deserve nothing.

I don't use credit cards. However, there is ample evidence that companies exist and they provide a service. I am not sure what your point is about CC companies.

 

[Vince]

Didn't I show you. Our faith is the evidence. You are looking for evidence for our faith, but our faith is the evidence because it is given to us from God. (Heb. 11:1)

Stranger

And I disagreed with the evidence. That is circular and is not evidence. You can disagree but that is my opinion. You cannot say god is real because I believe in him. I believe in big foot does that make him real?

 

[Vince]

I am not trying to prove to you that God exists. Where did you get that? I am not required to prove to you God exists. I am required to give the gospel to all that I can.

And I am not asking for prof. I understand the gospel so you have done your duty.

The Christians faith, my faith, is itself a gift from God. We believe. Why? Only because God has opened our eyes. We cannot cease to be believers as our eyes have been opened. This miraculous faith is evidence, for us, not you, of things yet seen by us concerning our God.

Stranger

If that is enough for you then great. I wonder if you have ever believed something and then found out it was not true.

 

[bbyrd009]

Beliefs are "sacred," faith is "holy"
The Bible is sacred, Word is holy
etc

 

[Willie T]

And I am not asking for prof. I understand the gospel so you have done your duty.

If that is enough for you then great. I wonder if you have ever believed something and then found out it was not true.

But, you haven't found it not to be true. You just don't want it to be. You ask for evidence He exists, yet, you have none to the contrary.

 

[bbyrd009]

"lack of belief in God" xlates to "belief in no God," even if most Christian belief in God is made into a self-serving belief I guess. Atheism is def a religion to many.

Wadr I can't imagine what you seek to accomplish here, any absolute proof of God would be errant anyway. Did you come here to argue? Do you think you will convert anyone here? So ppl here have a diff def of "faith" right now than Paul likely did, so what?

anyway I wish you the best here ok, may your bad interp supersede others' bad interp, and I'll fix my bad interp somewhere else I guess lol

 

[Vince]

@Vince if God is who He says He is, the sovereign of the universe, who are you to dictate the terms by which He should make Himself known to you?

I am not. I am just asking. Why do you and others say I am demanding or dictating to god when all I am dong is asking? God does not have to answer and if he does exist then my only conclusion is that he doesn't want me to have sufficient evidence. Or that god does not exist.

If God is not the sovereign of the universe, then He's not worth knowing. Make a wooden dog and bow before it . But God has every right to dictate what terms man comes to a knowledge of Him. And they aren't difficult. You don't have to jump through hoops... dive off cliffs... Walk through fire... Give your children as food for a monster...
All you have to do is believe. It is your choice. Evidence or no evidence. You can choose to believe even if you were blind, deaf, and dumb. The claim to a lack of evidence is not a reason for unbelief, it is an excuse.

In a rational world this is not so. Do you think that people that believe in Allah by faith are wrong? You cannot choose to believe anything. You can say it but in your heart you know you don't believe something. I can say I believe in a flat earth but I don't really believe it. I cannot just choose to believe the earth is flat, neither can you. You either believe it or not. I don't know if god exists so I just cannot choose to believe he does. Could you choose to believe Allah exists?

And yet God has given ample evidence for those willing to accept it. But they also have chosen to accept it. It all comes down to your willingness to believe. It has nothing to do with evidence. Even if a dead man walked into your room right now and told you he came from heaven, worked miracles, described God.... It would still be your choice whether to believe... Or not

Its not a choice to believe something you don't or don't know.

 

[bbyrd009]

But, you haven't found it not to be true. You just don't want it to be. You ask for evidence He exists, yet, you have none to the contrary.

asking for evidence of God's existence is a fool's errand of course; the implications of "Unknown God" are not that hard to discern imo

 

[Vince]

Where did you get the idea that recognizing that you have pride is calling you names? Where is it written that having pride is a bad thing?

Your Bible.

 

[bbyrd009]

God does not have to answer and if he does exist then my only conclusion is that he doesn't want me to have sufficient evidence.

all addressed in Job, and I guess you just wanna be spoon-fed too? Looking for a man with a white beard and white robe to give you a personal reply, Vince? Why, if you could not hear it anyway? Your conclusions you are entitled to of course, but that does not make them true ok.

 

[Vince]

Don't scientists agree that they can not get something from nothing?

Not all. But even if this was true, it is an assumption to think there was or could ever be nothing. Some scientists think that it may be impossible to have a nothing. The problem is we don't know and probably can never know what there was before the universe began. To assume there was nothing is not logically sound.

 

[Vince]

I suppose the difference is in first experiencing Christ through an inner peace and happiness that happens in association with his name. And from there trying to figure out what happened and why. So it isn't "blind faith" or superstition, but an inner transformation that spawns belief. This is how I experienced Christ at a time when I wasn't interested in religion.

I understand but people say this same thing about Allah? So why is the christian god the real one and Allah not? Malcom X had life transformation because he believed in Allah, non believers have inner transformation as well, so life transformation is insufficient evidence to believe a god exists.

 

[Willie T]

Your Bible.

That was the answer I expected. According to you, "My Bible" doesn't exist, since the One we believe wrote it doesn't exist... in your estimation. Why would you, then, validate something by using a source that doesn't exist?... unless you also believe what it says.

You do realize you cannot take part of the Bible as a basis for anything, and also deny other selected parts.

 

[bbyrd009]

Your "conclusions" just make you a Believer of a diff sort, no diff at all wadr.
Atheists are compared to Fundamentalists on Google better than I could do it here I guess

the hard path, the third rail, is "eschew conclusions" imo.
Lest you become a Believer too!
Let the blind lead
the blind

but again, best of luck here

 

[bbyrd009]

What God is and what God is not

 

[Vince]

"lack of belief in God" xlates to "belief in no God," even if most Christian belief in God is made into a self-serving belief I guess. Atheism is def a religion to many.

Belief in no god is not the same as saying god does not exist.


If you had a cardboard box on a table and told me there was a watch inside without additional evidence my only conclusion about whether there is a watch or not is I don't know. There would be insufficient evidence to believe there is one in the box. That is different than saying there is no watch in the box. If you then showed me the box the watch came out of, I could hear the watch ticking, the box is ample size to have a watch inside then I would have sufficient evidence to believe even though I don't know for sure 100%. So lack of belief does not equal no god exists.

Wadr I can't imagine what you seek to accomplish here, any absolute proof of God would be errant anyway. Did you come here to argue? Do you think you will convert anyone here? So ppl here have a diff def of "faith" right now than Paul likely did, so what?

I have never asked for absolute proof only sufficient evidence. There is a lot of misconceptions as to how what I would say most atheists think.

 

[Vince]

But, you haven't found it not to be true. You just don't want it to be. You ask for evidence He exists, yet, you have none to the contrary.

I have no evidence that pixies don't exist. Do you think it is reasonable to conclude then that they do exist based on that? I would love for a good god to exist where I could live forever after I die. But my desires have nothing to do with what is true.