Why Christians Disagree

[Taken]

I said incomplete... no spirit and not breathing until god breathed the spirit into it.

I know what you said, and I disagree with you.

A body was created. It existed. It is an earthen Vessel. That KIND of earthen vessel was called a man, Before anything else occured.

IOW, a body does not require a SOUL, for the BODY to exist.

Taken

 

[Taken]

Nope.

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 2038 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ejraunavw middle voice from (2041)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Ergazomai 2:635,251
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
er-gad'-zom-ahee Verb
Definition

1. to work, labour, do work
2. to trade, to make gains by trading, "do business"
3. to do, work out
   1. exercise, perform, commit
   2. to cause to exist, produce
4. to work for, earn by working, to acquire

WORKS were required, according to the Law of Moses, given specific men, tribes, not Gentiles.

Not subject to the Law? No WORKS "required."

Men "IN" Christ that DO WORKS, "that glorify Gods Name"...shall receive rewards, gifts, blessings.

The qualifier, OF WORKS...for a Hebrew/Jew is their law.
The qualifier, OF WORKS...for a Gentile (or anyone) "IN" Christ is works that "glorifiy Gods NAME".

WORKS of a Hebrew/Jew...ACCORDING to "their LAW', is acceptable Works unto them, BY God....."IF" they continue under the LAW in all aspects of the LAW...
(Since most Jews, do not believe their Law has been fulfilled...
Some Jews remain strict in their Laws...some eh, maybe, maybe not, adhere to their Laws.)

WORKS of any person "IN" Christ, whose WORKS "glorify Gods NAME"...they receive rewards, blessings, gifts.

ALL works NOT glorifying to Gods great NAME, shall be burned, regardless of WHO performed the WORKS.

A man IN Christ, who does NO WORKS to "glorify Gods Great Name"...eh...they lose out on receiving rewards, blessing, gifts...they could of had.

A man IN Christ didn't DO WORKS to receive Salvation...and doesn't LOSE Salvation for NOT doing Works.

Taken

 

[Harvest 1874]

That is Jehovah Witnesses theology.

No, that’s the teachings of the scriptures.

The correct answer is B: Eternal suffering

This is the nominal church’s viewpoint. The Scriptures to the contrary declare that the wages of sin is death, nothing more nothing less. There is no eternal suffering, the dead are dead they are not alive in any manner or form and therefore cannot suffer anything. You can either take the word of the Lord on the matter or the word the Adversary who proclaimed, “Thou shall not surely die”, a lie which has been enlightened upon by the false church into the blasphemy known as eternal torment.

Soul sleep is false doctrine.

Well then I guess the Lord must have been lying when following the death of the daughter of the ruler of the synagogue he addressed the weeping crowd proclaiming, “Do not weep; she is not dead, but sleeping.” (Luke 8:52), and then again he lied in the case of Lazarus when following his death he spoke to his disciples saying, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps; but I go, that I may awaken him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleeps, he shall do well. Howbeit JESUS SPOKE OF HIS DEATH: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. (John 11:11-13)

Both of these individuals had physically died, but our Lord addressed them both as though they were but asleep, that is because the first death (Adamic death) is considered but a “sleep” because the ransom sacrifice has been paid and merely awaits its application on behalf of mankind.

“And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and (age) lasting contempt.” Dan 12:2

Many who have been promoting this blasphemy and God dishonoring doctrine of eternal torment as the wages of sin will be found among those resurrected to age-lasting (the millennial age) shame when after having been brought to the truth they finally realize their folly in promoting such deceptions and how they dishonored their Creator. Pray that you are not found among them.

 

[ScottA]

If Christianity critiques itself on inner transformation, then it's no different from any other religion.

What's that got to do with order or adherence?

 

[Vince]

But they do say everything has a beginning and an end. Every effect as a cause.

The universe is an effect so what was the cause at the ultimate beginning when there was absolutely nothing, that including a cause.

I never said the univetse did not have a beginning only that we don’t know the cause. To jump to god did it is not science or logical either.

At this point you are making a claim that god is the cause. You need to provide evidence for the claim. Science makes no claim. You are the one with the burden of proof.

 

[Vince]

First...realize that you are the child here. Thus, reasoning with you cannot be on your terms, but on God's. Therefore, I am not asking you how you see things, nor does it matter - you are a child and don't understand, and if you need to mature before you do, nothing will be conclusive about this particular conversation until you can handle it - you're a babe.

You can say you don't hate God, but you are acting like it.

God is not punishing you in hell, you took a swan dive into it, and He is attempting to show you the error of your ways. Pay attention.

The rules are not rules, they are consequences, imposed by you, not Him. Again, He is trying to give you recourse.

You being wrong about everything does not mean you have superior morals. It means you haven't got a clue...and to top it off, you have an attitude and it is getting in the way of you being able to listen and see clearly.

You need to grow up. It may take years. But standing over your crib telling you the truth is only so effective.

Get it goo goo head?

Probably not.

this is nonsense with name calling to boot. I recall it was the religious people that Jesus called names. Brood of vipers and such.

 

[CoreIssue]

The issue was you saying the soul is eternal and goes to heaven, at which it does not. The spirit does. At the resurrection the body will join it and be glorified.

 

[CoreIssue]

="Taken, post: 514282, member: 7756"]WORKS were required, according to the Law of Moses, given specific men, tribes, not Gentiles.

Not subject to the Law? No WORKS "required."

Men "IN" Christ that DO WORKS, "that glorify Gods Name"...shall receive rewards, gifts, blessings.

The qualifier, OF WORKS...for a Hebrew/Jew is their law.
The qualifier, OF WORKS...for a Gentile (or anyone) "IN" Christ is works that "glorifiy Gods NAME".

This is a weird response to the definition of work in the bible.

We are not talking about Mosaic Law where works were required.

We're talking about the church age where there are no works of salvation.

There are works of the rewards and they said the definition of work posted.

WORKS of a Hebrew/Jew...ACCORDING to "their LAW', is acceptable Works unto them, BY God....."IF" they continue under the LAW in all aspects of the LAW...
(Since most Jews, do not believe their Law has been fulfilled...
Some Jews remain strict in their Laws...some eh, maybe, maybe not, adhere to their Laws.)

WORKS of any person "IN" Christ, whose WORKS "glorify Gods NAME"...they receive rewards, blessings, gifts.

ALL works NOT glorifying to Gods great NAME, shall be burned, regardless of WHO performed the WORKS.

Works of sanctification are not works for salvation.

A man IN Christ, who does NO WORKS to "glorify Gods Great Name"...eh...they lose out on receiving rewards, blessing, gifts...they could of had.

A man IN Christ didn't DO WORKS to receive Salvation...and doesn't LOSE Salvation for NOT doing Works.

Taken[/QUOTE]

 

[CoreIssue]

No, that’s the teachings of the scriptures.



This is the nominal church’s viewpoint. The Scriptures to the contrary declare that the wages of sin is death, nothing more nothing less. There is no eternal suffering, the dead are dead they are not alive in any manner or form and therefore cannot suffer anything. You can either take the word of the Lord on the matter or the word the Adversary who proclaimed, “Thou shall not surely die”, a lie which has been enlightened upon by the false church into the blasphemy known as eternal torment.



Well then I guess the Lord must have been lying when following the death of the daughter of the ruler of the synagogue’s he addressed the weeping crowd proclaiming, “Do not weep; she is not dead, but sleeping.” (Luke 8:52), and then again he lied in the case of Lazarus when following his death he spoke to his disciples saying, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps; but I go, that I may awaken him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleeps, he shall do well. Howbeit JESUS SPOKE OF HIS DEATH: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. (John 11:11-13)

Physical death says the body sleeps until the resurrection. The spirit does not sleep.

Both of these individuals had physically died, but our Lord addressed them both as though they were but asleep, that is because the first death (Adamic death) is considered but a “sleep” because the ransom sacrifice has been paid and merely awaits its application on behalf of mankind.

“And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and (age) lasting contempt.” Dan 12:2

Many who have been promoting this blasphemy and God dishonoring doctrine of eternal torment as the wages of sin will be found among those resurrected to age-lasting (the millennial age) shame when after having been brought to the truth they finally realize their folly in promoting such deceptions and how they dishonored their Creator. Pray that you are not found among them.

 

[CoreIssue]

I never said the univetse did not have a beginning only that we don’t know the cause. To jump to god did it is not science or logical either.

At this point you are making a claim that god is the cause. You need to provide evidence for the claim. Science makes no claim. You are the one with the burden of proof.

And if nothing existed there cannot be a natural scientific cause. It has to be supernatural, which science rejects except for scientists who are Christians.

 

[historyb]

I have a question about hell.

Is hell

A: Destruction
B: Eternal suffering
C: Deepest Darkness
D: A. B. C.

Hell is being in the presences of God and hating His presence.

 

[CoreIssue]

Hell is being in the presences of God and hating His presence.

 

[historyb]

View attachment 5491

So you don't believe Scriptures that God is everywhere?

 

[CoreIssue]

So you don't believe Scriptures that God is everywhere?

That has nothing to do with where and what Hell is.

 

[historyb]

Of course it does. So is God Everywhere or just some places?

 

[Vince]

And if nothing existed there cannot be a natural scientific cause. It has to be supernatural, which science rejects except for scientists who are Christians.

You are making claims you cannot support, like there was a nothing at one time and that the cause had to be supernatural. What evidence supports those?

 

[ScottA]

this is nonsense with name calling to boot. I recall it was the religious people that Jesus called names. Brood of vipers and such.

Look, I get it. I am the bearer of bad news. I had to put you in your place and show you that you are being a spoiled brat and looking a gift horse in the mouth, and all that. But it is the truth, and you said you are seeking the truth.

So, unless you think or know you have it all figured out, that you have possession of all truth, that you are not the speck I have shown you you are...then you can be honest, face the music and grow up, or you can call it nonsense and remain in the dark, remain a babe, only to discover that I have told you the truth, when and if you ever mature...or when you meet your maker.

That's love...tough love.

You asked.

 

[CoreIssue]

You are making claims you cannot support, like there was a nothing at one time and that the cause had to be supernatural. What evidence supports those?

The bible, law of cause and effect and the law that everything has a beginning and an end.

Science deals with the natural. When the natural is eliminated that leaves the supernatural.

 

[lforrest]

Many Christians disagree on how we are saved. Some say we are saved by the sacrifice of Jesus, some say we are saved by works, some say God saves all, some say god picks who is saved, some say you choose to be saved etc. etc. The issue of salvation should be clear and if it is not then why won't God clear it up? Christians cannot decide how to be saved how would I know how to be saved? The Bible teaches free will and predestination so I cannot even go to the bible to get a straight answer. So how is it my fault that I am not saved?

There are a few things that factor into an answer.
1. The scope of influences which cause confusion: So far you make God the one solely responsible, but there are other parties involved, Satan with his cohorts, individual people and religious organizations.
2. The Motivations of all involved parties: God, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. Satan and his cohorts who are the enemy of our souls, for reasons that extend back to their fall. Then there are humans who are social creatures following the herd, yet are self serving.
3. What does it mean to be saved: Is it only Escaping condemnation to hell, is that the end of it, simple relocation? God desires to make sons and daughters for himself. That requires a change in the person.
4. God's foreknowledge as a being who omniscient and Transcendent.

So how I answer your original questions: All who are saved are saved by the sacrifice of Jesus, without that none would be saved. Do works save? No, but they are an outward sign that you are a changed person, God who looks at the heart will determine if the motivations are right. Does God pick who is saved? Yes, Jesus said the Father gives people to him. God knows their response in advance, before they were even given to Jesus.

Why the confusion? Because most people do not learn the truth from the Holy Spirit. They instead listen to other spirits, and the people and organizations who have been influenced by them. Any who learn the truth are drowned out by the clamor of those who only think they know.

 

[Taken]

The issue was you saying the soul is eternal and goes to heaven, at which it does not. The spirit does. At the resurrection the body will join it and be glorified.

Still disagree with you.

The saved soul is eternal and does go to heaven once the body dies.

The quickened spirit is eternal and does go to heaven once the body dies.

Taken