Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?

[Davy]

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Anyone being honest with the text is going to take this entire verse to be pertaining to the 70th week, then interpret it based on that.

IOW...

This part---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week--is involving the 70th week.

This part---and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease--is involving the 70th week.

This part---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.--is involving the 70th week.

Therefore, it is impossible, thus unreasonable, to interpret this verse in such a manner where it involves no gap whatsoever.

To illustrate this, let's assume this part--and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease--is what Christ did on the cross in the middle of the 70th week.

If there are no gaps anywhere, that means this part---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---is entirely fulfilled within 3.5 years of Christ having died on the cross. Totally preposterous that that part can fit like that. The way many interpreters try and get around this is by being dishonest with the text, that some of it, particularly that part, is meaning outside of the 70th week, not during it.

That would be like arguing that verse 25 is not pertaining to the first 69 weeks. Some of it is pertaining to events outside of the first 69 weeks. Yet no one I'm aware of, regardless what their position is, pertaining to the 70 weeks, would argue in that manner per verse 25. Why do they argue in that manner per verse 27 then? Maybe because they are being dishonest with the text, thus place their interpretation above the text, rather than actually agreeing with the text.

As to this part in question---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---there are ways to interpret that without having to take it in a literal sense. Clearly, if one is applying that part to 70 AD, not only would it be outside of the 70 weeks, it would be being taken in the literal sense per that interpretation since 70 AD involved literal events.

But if we apply that part to 2 Thessalonians 2:4 instead and what all that involves, now we are no longer obligated to take that part in a literal sense. Not unless you are a Preterist or a Pretribber. Thankfully, not all of us are either of those.

"
Those against that Daniel 9:27 verse instead say there is no time gap between the 69th and 70th week, that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week. He did not though. Jesus was "cut off" at the end of the 69th week, leaving the 70th week unfulfilled.

One of the reasons many are confused about this is because of certain Bible translations. The actual Aramaic shows Dan.9:27 is about a 'desolator' that will cause the "abomination of desolation" of Daniel 11:31, the "vile person". That cannot... refer to Jesus Christ as that desolator.

Furthermore, Jesus quoted the "abomination of desolation" event of Daniel 11:31 in His Olivet discourse SIGNS He gave for the very end of this world. And that means for the time in the last days, NOT the time at His 1st coming and Ministry.

The "abomination of desolation" event is about the placing of an IDOL in a Jewish stone temple in Jerusalem. We were already given a blueprint type for that by Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. Yet Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel about it around 200 years after Antiochus had been dead.

Thus it is the devil's children that keep pushing the lie that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week of Daniel 9. Why? Because it involves the coming of a false-Messiah at the end to Jerusalem who the deceived Jews there will setup as their king, thinking he is Messiah. Many Christian brethren will follow suit with them, being deceived by the devil's servants that have crept into the majority of Church organizations today.

 

[jeffweeder]

"
Those against that Daniel 9:27 verse instead say there is no time gap between the 69th and 70th week, that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week. He did not though. Jesus was "cut off" at the end of the 69th week, leaving the 70th week unfulfilled.

Jesus (as Messiah) began his ministry of redemption AFTER THE 69TH WEEK. He was revealed by John the Baptist as Messiah After the 7 and 62 weeks.

Jn 1
29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I and has priority over me, for He existed before me.’ 31 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah]; but I came baptizing in water so that He would be [publicly] revealed to Israel.” 32 John gave [further] evidence [testifying officially for the record, with validity and relevance], saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah], but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this One is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I myself have [actually] seen [that happen], and my testimony is that this is the Son of God!”

Messiah was revealed after 69 weeks, when Jesus was anointed at the age of 30.

Dan 9
24 “Seventy weeks [of years, or 490 years] have been decreed for your people and for your holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make atonement (reconciliation) for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness (right-standing with God), to seal up vision and prophecy and prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuance of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Messiah (the Anointed One), the Prince, there will be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years];

Thus it is the devil's children that keep pushing the lie that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week of Daniel 9.

It is only the devils children that deny Jesus achieved our atonement for sin in the prophesied 70 weeks., not 69 weeks.
He clearly was anointed as Messiah after 69 weeks. That is how JOHN BAPTIST knew for sure Messiah had come to atone and complete the work....JN 17.


Jn 1
29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I and has priority over me, for He existed before me.’ 31 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah]; but I came baptizing in water so that He would be [publicly] revealed to Israel.” 32 John gave [further] evidence [testifying officially for the record, with validity and relevance], saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah], but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this One is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I myself have [actually] seen [that happen], and my testimony is that this is the Son of God!”

 

[covenantee]

"
Those against that Daniel 9:27 verse instead say there is no time gap between the 69th and 70th week, that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week. He did not though. Jesus was "cut off" at the end of the 69th week, leaving the 70th week unfulfilled.

One of the reasons many are confused about this is because of certain Bible translations. The actual Aramaic shows Dan.9:27 is about a 'desolator' that will cause the "abomination of desolation" of Daniel 11:31, the "vile person". That cannot... refer to Jesus Christ as that desolator.

Furthermore, Jesus quoted the "abomination of desolation" event of Daniel 11:31 in His Olivet discourse SIGNS He gave for the very end of this world. And that means for the time in the last days, NOT the time at His 1st coming and Ministry.

The "abomination of desolation" event is about the placing of an IDOL in a Jewish stone temple in Jerusalem. We were already given a blueprint type for that by Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. Yet Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel about it around 200 years after Antiochus had been dead.

Thus it is the devil's children that keep pushing the lie that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week of Daniel 9. Why? Because it involves the coming of a false-Messiah at the end to Jerusalem who the deceived Jews there will setup as their king, thinking he is Messiah. Many Christian brethren will follow suit with them, being deceived by the devil's servants that have crept into the majority of Church organizations today.

Debunked.

Here are some of the devil's children for you.

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

Messiah has some choice words and enlightenment for you.

Luke 24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Was Daniel one of "all the prophets" who wrote concerning Messiah?

Did Daniel write Daniel 9:24 and does it all concern Messiah?

Did Messiah say that all things concerning Himself must be accomplished and fulfilled?

The answers are more than self-evident.

Don't be a repeat of Luke 24:25.

 

[Truth7t7]

It is only the devils children that deny Jesus achieved our atonement for sin in the prophesied 70 weeks., not 69 weeks.

If you don't follow what Jeff believes your a child of the devil, smiles

My Bible teaches 70 weeks not 490 years as you falsely claim

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[strepho]

The one week of Daniel chapter 9:27 is satan in his role as antichrist, 6th trump.

2 thessalonians chapter 2.
Son of perdition in holy temple, claiming to be messiah.

This is satan in Jerusalem, 6th trump, claiming to be messiah, Jesus.

Holy communion will cease. This is Passover. Majority will worship antichrist, they're biblically illiterate. They think he's Jesus.

Ever read micah chapter 1 ??

Dust man is satan. He comes 6th trump to Jerusalem. It's 5 month period.
Documentation
Micah chapter 1
Revelation chapter 9. 5 month period.
Mark chapter 13. Time shortened for the Elect sakes.

Satan will offer cup of salvation and many people will worship him.

Fake shepherds are not preparing there congregations. Teaching traditions of men and false doctrine and fairytales.

Gospel armour of ephesians chapter 6. Is knowledge and wisdom of God's word.
Those who are biblically illiterate will worship antichrist near future.

 

[jeffweeder]

If you don't follow what Jeff believes your a child of the devil, smiles

I don't think that at all. I was reacting to davy stating this. I should have it explained better.

 

[Davy]

Jesus (as Messiah) began his ministry of redemption AFTER THE 69TH WEEK. He was revealed by John the Baptist as Messiah After the 7 and 62 weeks.

That of course is a LIE, probably gotten from the unbelieving Jews and Judaism. Christ's Ministry ended... with the ending of the 69th week.

 

[covenantee]

That of course is a LIE, probably gotten from the unbelieving Jews and Judaism.

What you've gotten is from Darby and Scofield.

Liars both.

 

[Davidpt]

The key to understanding the timeline of the 70 weeks "of years" at Daniel 9:24-27 is seen at Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, of "a day for a year". Thus, "from the issuing of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah the Leader, there will be 7 weeks, also 62 weeks", so that in 455 B.C.E., in the 20th year of the reign of King Artaxerxes of Medo-Persia, Nehemiah was allowed to go to Jerusalem and start this rebuilding by repairing Jerusalem's walls (Neh 2:1-10; 6:15), "but in times of distress", being verbally attacked and threatened.(Neh 2:19)

So, 7 + 62 = 69, so that 69 weeks "of years" was 483 years that ran from 455 B.C.E. till 29 C.E., with the 70th "week of years", starting in the fall of 29 C.E., which matches exactly with Luke 3:1, when John the Baptist began preaching to "repent, for the Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near" (Matt 3:1-3), baptizing Jews in the Jordan river.

This fulfilled Isaiah 40:3 in preparation for the arrival of the promised Messiah, in "the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar", that ran from September 15, 28 C.E. to September 15, 29 C.E., when John baptized Jesus in the Jordan river as the 1st "chosen one" for God's Kingdom.(Matt 3:13-17; Luke 9:35)

The 70 weeks "of years", 490 years, came to a close in 36 C.E., ending the Mosaic Law covenant for the Jews (Dan 9:27a), and also ended the time allowed for the Jews alone to make up God's Kingdom, as Jehovah told Moses at Exodus 19:5, 6:

"Now if you (the Jews) will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my (exclusive) special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me. You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites."

Because the Jews as a nation failed in strictly obeying Jehovah's voice, becoming apostate and incorrigible, murdering Jehovah's "only-begotten Son" (John 3:16, at "the half of the week", on Nisan 14, 33 C.E., Dan 9:27b) and some of his other prophets (Matt 23:33-36; 1 Thess 2:14-16), they were rejected (and later destroyed by the Roman army in 70 C.E.), having lost the right to be exclusively Jehovah's "special property", so that Gentiles were invited into this special arrangement of God's Kingdom.(Rom 11:11, 12, 25, 26)

Hence, while in the temple, three days before Jesus was executed on a stake at the demand of the Jewish religious leaders (John 19:6, 15), Jesus succinctly told the Pharisees, who stood for the nation of fleshly Israel: "Did you never read in the Scriptures (at Ps 118:22, 23), ‘The stone (Jesus Christ) that the builders (the Jewish religious leaders) rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone (of God's heavenly Kingdom). This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? "

"This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be TAKEN FROM YOU and be given to (or replaced with) a (new) nation producing its fruits (of holy conduct, whereby this new "nation" of spiritual "Israel", see Isa 66:6-9, has ' beaten its swords into plowshares ', Isa 2:2-4). Also, the person falling on (or attacking) this stone (of God's Kingdom) will be shattered. As for anyone on whom it falls (or attacks), it will crush him.”(Matt 21:42-44)

Thence, the 70 weeks "of years" ended in 36 C.E., and brought to an end the nation of fleshly Jews as Jehovah's people, being replaced with a new "nation" that "will give the fruits (of holy conduct) when they become due".(Matt 21:41)

Even if I changed my view and agreed with yours instead, I still wouldn't change my mind about this part and what that is involving---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

I would still not apply it to 70 AD even if I agreed the 70 weeks have been fulfilled without any gap. Unlike some others, I'm simply not obsessed with 70 AD. 70 AD was regional. 70 AD is now in the past, no longer relevant in the 21st century. What this part is involving---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---if we factor in the 42 month reign of the beast in the end of this age, that that involves global but not meaning in a literal sense involving a literal brick and mortar temple in Jerusalem. It's involving a temple alright. The one meant in 2 Thessalonians 2:4, except that temple is not to be taken in the literal sense.

No matter what I do then, if I assume there is a gap, or if I assume there is no gap, my view still encounters opposition no matter what, simply because I refuse to believe that this part---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---is pertaining to 70 AD.

the overspreading of abominations---nothing in the first century leading up to 70 AD explains this part. If one says, well animal sacrificing explains it. What is one actually saying if that is true, the fact God was the one that initially thought up animal sacrificing and required it? One is to believe that God initiated something abominable and required others to perform abominable acts, such as animal sacrificing?

 

[Davidpt]

That of course is a LIE, probably gotten from the unbelieving Jews and Judaism. Christ's Ministry ended... with the ending of the 69th week.

In order for this to logically work, it has to mean that 483 years earlier something significant occurred, thus marking the beginning of the 70 weeks. What significant thing do you have occurring exactly 483 years earlier, thus marking the start of the 70 weeks, then exactly 483 years later we are at the end of Christ's ministry, followed by His death upon the cross soon after?

 

[covenantee]

Even if I changed my view and agreed with yours instead, I still wouldn't change my mind about this part and what that is involving---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

I would still not apply it to 70 AD even if I agreed the 70 weeks have been fulfilled without any gap. Unlike some others, I'm simply not obsessed with 70 AD. 70 AD was regional. 70 AD is now in the past, no longer relevant in the 21st century. What this part is involving---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---if we factor in the 42 month reign of the beast in the end of this age, that that involves global but not meaning in a literal sense involving a literal brick and mortar temple in Jerusalem. It's involving a temple alright. The one meant in 2 Thessalonians 2:4, except that temple is not to be taken in the literal sense.

No matter what I do then, if I assume there is a gap, or if I assume there is no gap, my view still encounters opposition no matter what, simply because I refuse to believe that this part---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---is pertaining to 70 AD.

the overspreading of abominations---nothing in the first century leading up to 70 AD explains this part. If one says, well animal sacrificing explains it. What is one actually saying if that is true, the fact God was the one that initially thought up animal sacrificing and required it? One is to believe that God initiated something abominable and required others to perform abominable acts, such as animal sacrificing?

Daniel 9:27 in the Hebrew

The YLT renders it accurately:
And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and [in] the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.

The abominations were the Roman armies. Luke 21:20

The wing alludes to the Roman military symbol of the eagle.

Messiah used them as His instruments to make desolate, until the complete destruction (consummation), the city of Jerusalem and the sanctuary.

 

[Davy]

Those who deny that Daniel 9:27 is about the very end of this world for the time of "great tribulation" also REJECT Christ's SIGNS of the end He gave in His Olivet discourse. They instead falsely 'try' to push Christ's Olivet discourse signs back to 70 A.D. also. They also hate when you bring up the subject of the "vile person" in Daniel 11 being tied to the events of Daniel 9:27 about the "abomination of desolation." Nor do they want to hear about Christ having quoted the "abomination of desolation" event from Daniel 11:31 which prophecy involves the "vile person" doing that.


Thus here is Scripture ammo against the false Preterist doctrines claiming the 70th symbolic week of Daniel was completed at Christ's 1st coming...

Daniel 11 about the "vile person" = Preterists wrongly claim this was history with Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. Yet Jesus warned from Daniel 11:31 in His Olivet discourse, around 200 years after Antiochus IV had been dead, about the "abomination of desolation".

Daniel 9:26 reveals Messiah is "cut off" (crucified) after threescore and two weeks. Verse 25 reveals a "seven weeks" period prior to the 62 weeks. Both together means 69 weeks fulfilled at Christ's cross.

 

[Davy]

In order for this to logically work, it has to mean that 483 years earlier something significant occurred, thus marking the beginning of the 70 weeks. What significant thing do you have occurring exactly 483 years earlier, thus marking the start of the 70 weeks, then exactly 483 years later we are at the end of Christ's ministry, followed by His death upon the cross soon after?

The Seventy Weeks of Dan. 9:24-27. - Appendix to the Companion Bible

 

[Davidpt]

Those who deny that Daniel 9:27 is about the very end of this world for the time of "great tribulation" also REJECT Christ's SIGNS of the end He gave in His Olivet discourse. They instead falsely 'try' to push Christ's Olivet discourse signs back to 70 A.D. also. They also hate when you bring up the subject of the "vile person" in Daniel 11 being tied to the events of Daniel 9:27 about the "abomination of desolation." Nor do they want to hear about Christ having quoted the "abomination of desolation" event from Daniel 11:31 which prophecy involves the "vile person" doing that.


Thus here is Scripture ammo against the false Preterist doctrines claiming the 70th symbolic week of Daniel was completed at Christ's 1st coming...

Daniel 11 about the "vile person" = Preterists wrongly claim this was history with Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. Yet Jesus warned from Daniel 11:31 in His Olivet discourse, around 200 years after Antiochus IV had been dead, about the "abomination of desolation".

Daniel 9:26 reveals Messiah is "cut off" (crucified) after threescore and two weeks. Verse 25 reveals a "seven weeks" period prior to the 62 weeks. Both together means 69 weeks fulfilled at Christ's cross.

My thinking now is the following, maybe the gap is between the 69th and 70th week after all, though lately I have been thinking maybe it's in the middle of the week instead? After all, there is such a thing, that even though one changed their position to something else, initially when they held the former position, they were actually right all along to begin with. That's what I'm starting to wonder here, in my case, thus some of my thinking below.

No doubt, Jesus' baptism was significant. In my mind though, something even more significant than that would be the following.

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Matthew 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.


Versus His baptism.

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:


We then have one view at the end of the 483 years arriving at the former, and another view at the end of the 483 years arriving at the latter. It then is a question of, which event is more significant? It seems to me that the event that is more significant has to be what is being meant by this in Daniel 9:25---unto the Messiah the Prince. A keyword here is Prince. Prince and King seem to be meaning basically the same thing. In the former above it makes mention of a King in the context. I don't see that also being the case with the latter as well. Keeping in mind, Daniel 9:25 does not say this---unto the Messiah--which could maybe fit Matthew 3:16 had it said that. Except it didn't say that. It said this instead---unto the Messiah the Prince---which is then a good fit for this--- Behold, thy King cometh unto thee(Matthew 21:5)

One thing that can't be disputed is this. If Zechariah 9:9 and Matthew 21:5 are meant at the end of the 483 years, no way can Christ be meant in verse 27 pertaining to middle of the week. As of Zechariah 9:9 and Matthew 21:5, the cross is not still 3.5 years later, it is at the door.

Some conclude that Christ was born in 4 BC. Most conclude that when Christ died He was around 33 years of age. 4 BC to 29 or even 30 AD, wouldn't that make Him around 33 then? But if He was born in 4 BC but died in 33 AD, thus making Him 37 at the time, why are these same interpreters insisting He was around 33 when He died?

BTW, thanks for that link you provided per post #753. I'm finding it useful.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No gap.

 

[Davy]

My thinking now is the following, maybe the gap is between the 69th and 70th week after all, though lately I have been thinking maybe it's in the middle of the week instead? After all, there is such a thing, that even though one changed their position to something else, initially when they held the former position, they were actually right all along to begin with. That's what I'm starting to wonder here, in my case, thus some of my thinking below.

There's actually several time gap examples written of in God's Word. In Luke 4 at the start of Christ's Ministry, He quoted from Isaiah 61, but He closed the Book before reaching the last phrase of Isaiah 61:2. That because that last phrase is about His future 2nd coming.

The middle of the symbolic "one week" of Dan.9:27 is when the false-Messiah ends the daily sacrifices in future Jerusalem, and places the abomination of desolation. It is tied to the Matthew 24:15 section of Christ's Olivet discourse SIGNS for the end. That event is what kicks off the future "great tribulation".

No doubt, Jesus baptism was significant. In my mind though, something even more significant than that would be the following.

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

That Zech.9:9 verse is about Christ's 1st coming. The Zech.9:10 verse is about His 2nd coming.

....

We then have one view at the end of the 483 years arriving at the former, and another view at the end of the 483 years arriving at the latter. It this a question of, which event is more significant? The event that is more significant has to be what is being meant by this in Daniel 9:25---unto the Messiah the Prince. A keyword here is Prince. Prince and King seem to be meaning basically the same thing. In the former above it makes mention of a King in the context. I don't see that all being the case with the latter as well. Keeping in mind, Daniel 9:25 does not say this---unto the Messiah--which could maybe fit Matthew 3:16 had it said that. Except it didn't say that. It said this instead---unto the Messiah the Prince---which is then a good fit for this--- Behold, thy King cometh unto thee(Matthew 21:5)

Well, Lord Jesus is also called The Prince of Peace, ya know (Isaiah 9:6).

One thing that can't be disputed is this. If Zechariah 9:9 and Matthew 21:5 are meant at the end of the 483 years, no way can Christ be meant in verse 27 pertaining to middle of the week. As of Zechariah 9:9 and Matthew 21:5, the cross is not still 3.5 years later, it is at the door.

Still, no doubt that Zech.9:9-10 is about Jesus Christ. Likewise with Matt.21:5. Zech.9:10 removes any doubt.

Zech 9:10
10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
KJV

Some conclude that Christ was born in 4 BC. Most conclude that when Christ died He was around 33 years of age. 4 BC to 29 or even 30 AD, wouldn't that make Him around 33 then? But if He was born in 4 BC but died in 33 AD, thus making Him 37 at the time, why are these same interpreters insisting He was around 33 when He died?

BTW, thanks for that link you provided per post #753. I'm finding it useful.

I believe Bullinger's Bible chronology, which pretty much follows bishop Ussher's of the 17th century, is still one of the most reliable. I'm aware that many try to change the time when the command went out to build Jerusalem and the temple, which will modify the time of Christ's 1st coming.
You should read Bullinger's side note on that, which I think is at the bottom of that Appendix.

 

[Davidpt]

No gap.

What an argument. I guess that means you win then, that what you just said here settles it.

 

[TribulationSigns]

What an argument. I guess that means you win then, that what you just said here settles it.

Glad to hear that you acknowledge this.

 

[jeffweeder]

That of course is a LIE, probably gotten from the unbelieving Jews and Judaism. Christ's Ministry ended... with the ending of the 69th week.

Scripture doesn't lie.

Dan 9
25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuance of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Messiah (the Anointed One), the Prince, there will be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years];


Jesus received that Anointing at his Baptism. Just ask John the Baptist, he doesn't lie either. Jn1

With that anointing Jesus was the only one capable of accomplishing this....,

24 “Seventy weeks [of years, or 490 years] have been decreed for your people and for your holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make atonement (reconciliation) for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness (right-standing with God), to seal up vision and prophecy and prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Heb 9
11 But when Christ appeared as a High Priest of the good things to come [that is, true spiritual worship], He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not a part of this [material] creation. 12 He went once for all into the Holy Place [the Holy of Holies of heaven, into the presence of God], and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, having obtained and secured eternal redemption [that is, the salvation of all who personally believe in Him as Savior].

 

[jeffweeder]

In order for this to logically work, it has to mean that 483 years earlier something significant occurred, thus marking the beginning of the 70 weeks. What significant thing do you have occurring exactly 483 years earlier, thus marking the start of the 70 weeks, then exactly 483 years later we are at the end of Christ's ministry, followed by His death upon the cross soon after?

25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuance of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Messiah (the Anointed One), the Prince, there will be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years]; it will be built again, with [a city] plaza and moat, even in times of trouble.

457bc + 483 years = 26AD.
3 1/2 years later Messiah obtained Eternal redemption for those who believe.
We are so squeaky clean under his blood we can receive his Holy Spirit.
It is finished.