Why are Bible scholars leaving Christianity?

[GeneZ]

I always wondered about guys like Ravi Zacharias....
How can you work and spend your life this way just to throw it all away?

I listened to him out of a Canadian radio station as a teenager....seen his tracts and literature....

Just to find out after he died that he was a lecherous man. Kinda nuts....

Was it burnout or something?

The media organized and also sold us that there was Russian collusion.

I have heard lies levelled at dedicated men of God that I knew.
One believer I know repeated scandalous gossip about a very dedicated Bible teacher.. She later ended up with jaw cancer....
Another person who followed the same rumors had a nervous breakdown. God does not take it lightly.

What Ravi really did? We can not say.

I was accused years ago in a sexual harassment case. Initially, I was not the one being accused.
I was accused only after I came forward as a witness against the accuser who exposed herself to
me on the job six months before accusing the boss's son.

I was astonished to see (and learn) how adept pathological liars are. They take to lies like a duck to water.

My pastor once told us how he and Billy Graham were seated next to each other before Billy was to speak.
While seated, an attractive woman walked up front. The woman looking at Billy she told him how much she enjoyed their "special encounter" in
some city, last time he was there ...

My pastor said that Billy, being the perfect gentleman, stood up and told her how much he appreciated her appreciation in a very
naïve sort of way. After she walked away, Billy turned to my pastor and told him that she was not the first one like that.

Don't believe rumors and lies.... no matter who says them.

Unless it involves one's own church government? Stay away from it. 1 Timothy 5:19

Jesus is not looking for part time judging help. He will handle everything.

grace and peace ........

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Either that, or he used the oral traditions and mythology of the Israelites to communicate on a common level.
Science and Archaeology don't support a literal view of creation, the Flood, or the Exodus.

Where are you getting that from?

Just to be clear, I was providing an alternative answer to the claim/question.
As I understand it, even the Jews in Jesus day believed the OT was mythology.
But I may be wrong on that point. @ElieG12

Here is one example.
The Apostle uses a Jewish myth to explain his point.
In this myth, the rock that Moses struck, from which water came,
supposedly followed them through the wilderness.
Paul writes, "... they drank from the spiritual rock that
accompanied them, and that rock was Christ." ???
Compare: Exodus 17:6 and Numbers 20:9-11

1 Corinthians 10:3-4 NIV
They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink;
for they drank from the spiritual rock that
accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

 

[gpresdo]

While that is somewhat true, what is the role of the Priest?
Does not a Priest represent others to God?

Revelation 1:5-6 NIV
... To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—
to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

No...absolutely not. The first commandment is...Thou shall have no other gods before Me.
The roman catholic is not a Christian. I have no idea.

 

[GeneZ]

No...absolutely not. The first commandment is...Thou shall have no other gods before Me.
The roman catholic is not a Christian. I have no idea.

Roman Catholics have an even bigger problem.
And... That problem is proof they do not really study the Bible!

Whenever shown this passage?
Many will lie and deny like a liberal Democrat....

​

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. ​

And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven." Matthew 23:8-9​

When they try to rationalize that away their defiance to disobeying God's Word?
It exposes their religious hypocrisy.
For they demand that we return and bow down to the "mother church."

What a crock their dogma is!

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
While that is somewhat true, what is the role of the Priest?
Does not a Priest represent others to God?

Revelation 1:5-6 NIV
... To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—
to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

No...absolutely not.

What is the role of a Priest, then?

The first commandment is...Thou shall have no other gods before Me.

The role of the Priest is not as a god to worship.
Though it could, and does, happen. Not the intention of the office of Priest.

The roman catholic is not a Christian.

Seriously?

I have no idea.

On that point we agree.

 

[GeneZ]

What is the role of a Priest, then?

A priest had the authority to represent himself before God.
That is why they always had to purify themselves before God before performing their priestly duties in the Temple.
To purify themselves it was done directly between the priest and God.

We as 'believer priests' are having authority to represent ourselves privately before God, as revealed in 1 John 1:9.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."​

In the OT dispensation believers had to confess their sins to a priest who would then present a sacrifice on the sinners behalf.
Because of the Cross we have no need for specialized priest hood to present blood. For the blood of Jesus is always before us.

We are our own priest!

And, we are not only our own priest. We are also the Bride of the King. The King who is our High Priest.
Being related to the King in that way? Makes us Royalty.

That is why Peter could say the following:

"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, ​

that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." 1 Peter 2:9​

We are not just a priesthood.

We have been chosen in Christ to be his ROYAL priesthood! Not just a priesthood.

Note:

Unless someone personally sins against you, and you know they did? He has no need to confess his sin to you.
For he is his own priest, and should privately use 1 John 1:9 to be cleansed before God!


grace and peace ............

 

[gpresdo]

St. SteVen said:
While that is somewhat true, what is the role of the Priest?
Does not a Priest represent others to God?

Revelation 1:5-6 NIV
... To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—
to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

What is the role of a Priest, then?

The role of the Priest is not as a god to worship.
Though it could, and does, happen. Not the intention of the office of Priest.

Seriously?
bible.
On that point we agree.

The RC does not want their members to study scriptures....even though it is their bible. They want their members to consult the priest...only. With confessions...priest becomes an intercessor replacing the proper role of Christ. A violation of the 1st commandment.

Anyone can pray to God on anyone's behalf. I thank you for all prayers. Thank you.

Try calling a priest A christian and see how fast you are corrected. Or, at least I and others I know have been. They are a roman catholic with their own bible.

 

[St. SteVen]

The RC does not want their members to study scriptures....even though it is their bible. They want their members to consult the priest...only. With confessions...priest becomes an intercessor replacing the proper role of Christ. A violation of the 1st commandment.

I used to believe that. And it may have been truer in the past.
Most Catholics can defend their faith biblically. Try telling them that Mary had other children.

Anyone can pray to God on anyone's behalf.

I agree. What do you make of this?

Revelation 1:5-6 NIV
... To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—
to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

 

[Jim C]

yes, we will become a priesthood to serve God in heaven. HOWEVER, Jesus remains THE High Priest in God's temple in heaven, where He continually intercedes with God on our behalf.

 

[St. SteVen]

yes, we will become a priesthood to serve God in heaven. HOWEVER, Jesus remains THE High Priest in God's temple in heaven, where He continually intercedes with God on our behalf.

Let's check the context. See below.
The "and" seems significant. IMHO

Revelation 1:5-6 NIV
... To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—
to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

 

[GeneZ]

I used to believe that. And it may have been truer in the past.
Most Catholics can defend their faith biblically. Try telling them that Mary had other children.

yes, we will become a priesthood to serve God in heaven. HOWEVER, Jesus remains THE High Priest in God's temple in heaven, where He continually intercedes with God on our behalf.

A high priest always existed above the priests in authority. He was not there substituting and awaiting them to function as priests.

 

[St. SteVen]

A high priest always existed above the priests in authority. He was not there substituting and awaiting them to function as priests.

That's a very interesting statement. What do you mean when you write:
"He was not there substituting and awaiting them to function as priests." ???

On another thread (Did Jesus Call the Pharisees gods?) we were discussing "agency"
Was the high Priest responsible for the actions of the other priests?

 

[Jim C]

high priest always existed above the priests in authority. He was not there substituting and awaiting them to function

Yes, but  only the high priest could enter the presence of God (in the earthly temple) and intercede on behalf of God's people., which is what I was getting at l.
Christ has taken over the role of high priest (in the real temple in heaven), rendering human intercession obsolete.

We can pray for ourselves and others, but only through Christ --
"... NO ONE comes to the Father, except through Me." John 14:6

 

[St. SteVen]

... rendering human intercession obsolete.

We can pray for ourselves and others, but only through Christ --
"... NO ONE comes to the Father, except through Me." John 14:6

Say what?
Rendering human intercession obsolete?
Isn't that what praying for one another is?

 

[ScottA]

Bible scholars are leaving Christianity in droves. Why?
Not because they don't understand the Bible, obviously. (they're Bible scholars)

- Do you have to be Christian to believe in God?
- Do you have to agree with the institutional church's positions to believe in God?

Previous topic on this subject.

Leaving Room for Faith - why we don't know EVERYTHING

At one time I was bothered by the fact that we don't really have ALL the answers. There was always a loose end somewhere. I chased the apologetics in every direction, but always came up short somewhere. And frankly, I don't remember the specifics, only the moment of my release from the tyranny...

www.christianityboard.com

Many of the learned only learn the scriptures as literature, which then fails to fulfill what they thought they knew and did not.

 

[Jim C]

Say what?
Rendering human intercession obsolete?
Isn't that what praying for one another is?

My apologies for not being clearer. I meant Christ made the need for a human high priest obsolete.

 

[GeneZ]

That's a very interesting statement. What do you mean when you write:
"He was not there substituting and awaiting them to function as priests." ???

On another thread (Did Jesus Call the Pharisees gods?) we were discussing "agency"
Was the high Priest responsible for the actions of the other priests?

It was in response to what Jim C said....

Jim C said:
yes, we will become a priesthood to
serve God in heaven. HOWEVER, Jesus remains THE High Priest in God's temple in heaven, where He continually intercedes with God on our behalf.

I believe he was missing the point. For we are NOW functioning as our own priests before God. Not waiting till we get to Heaven.
It seems Jim thinks Jesus is taking up the slack for our function until we get to Heaven. At least, that is what he appears to be saying.

 

[GeneZ]

Yes, but  only the high priest could enter the presence of God (in the earthly temple) and intercede on behalf of God's people., which is what I was getting at l.
Christ has taken over the role of high priest (in the real temple in heaven), rendering human intercession obsolete.

We can pray for ourselves and others, but only through Christ --
"... NO ONE comes to the Father, except through Me." John 14:6

Do not confuse the two different functions. It was the priests in the Temple who received the people and offered animal sacrifices on their behalf.
It was the Levite tribe that did that service. There was only one high priest at a time and could never fulfill that duty of the priests in the Temple.

Right now Jesus in Heaven is being our High Priest, yes. But, we are like the priests serving in the Temple daily.

 

[Jim C]

Right now Jesus in Heaven is being our High Priest, yes. But, we are like the priests serving in the Temple daily.

Ok, now I see where you're coming from. I had gotten focused on sin offerings as opposed to request and thanksgiving offerings.

 

[keithr]

I agree. What do you make of this?

Revelation 1:5-6 NIV
... To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—
to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

I couldn't help noticing the anti-trinitarian part - that Jesus has a God and Father, just like us.

Romans 15:5-6 (WEB):

(5) Now the God of perseverance and of encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus,​

(6) that with one accord you may with one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.​