Who is the Queen of Heaven.

[Jim B]

BoL has never discussed abortion anywhere in this thread. You can't stop lying which is why I have you on ignore.

If you have me on ignore, how come you're reading my posts and replying to them? Talk about lying...

 

[Illuminator]

I'm placing you on ignore, I came here for serious debate Bye

There can be no serious debate when you refuse to answer questions.

Rom. 6:4 – in baptism, we actually die with Christ so that we, like Him, might be raised to newness of life. This means that, by virtue of our baptism, our sufferings are not in vain. They are joined to Christ and become efficacious for our salvation.

Rom. 5:12 – sin came through Adam and death through sin. Babies’ souls are affected by Adam’s sin and need baptism just like adult souls.

Rom. 5:12 – sin came into the world through one man, Adam, and death came through this sin. This sin affects all people, men and women, babies and adults. Through the merits of Jesus Christ, we have the sacrament of baptism to wash away the sin that came through Adam.

Rom. 5:14 – death reigned from Adam to Moses, born from Adam’s original sin. This is a mystery we do not fully understand, but we must all acknowledge our propensity toward evil and our need of God.

Rom. 5:16 – the judgment following one single trespass brought condemnation for all. This means all have inherited the sin of Adam, and all must be washed clean of this sin in the waters of baptism.

Rom. 5:19 – by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners. Original sin is passed on as part of the human condition, and only God in the flesh could atone for our sins by the eternal sacrifice of Himself. Through this sacrifice, God has re-opened the doors to heaven, and through baptism, we are once again made children of God.

historical document:
For Christ also said, ‘Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.’ Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers’ wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: ‘Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well…And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow…And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the layer the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone…And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed.”
Justin Martyr, First Apology, 61 (A.D. 110-165).
Sadly, you have nothing to do with the Church of 110 AD. Can you at least acknowledge Justin Martyr as a Christian??? FOR THE THIRD TIME!!!

Note that Justin Martyr is completely in line with Romans 5. The CC has not changed the teaching of the Apostles for 2000 years. Sola scripturists can't even agree whether or not baptism is a fundamental doctrine.
Protestant Unity on “Central” Doctrines? (Baptism as Test Case) [vs. Jerry Walls] | Dave Armstrong

 

[1stCenturyLady]

And none of them are dead. Do you never ask anyone to pray for you? Perhaps you think your prayers foe others are not effecacious?

What is your objection to asking our righteous brothers and sisters to pray for us?

The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

They are dead as to hearing our requests, and NONE of them are an intermediators between you and God - only Jesus is per scripture, which is the bottom line and not to be overruled by man's fairytales. Do you honestly believe Mary can hear and respond to the millions of people that are right now praying to her instead of to Jesus? She is not God and does not have that power as He does.

 

[Philip James]

They are dead as to hearing our requests, and NONE of them are an intermediators between you and God - only Jesus is per scripture, which is the bottom line

So are you saying that praying for one another is worthless?

As for hearing:

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses

And God surely hears! If He answers prayer at the invocation of the heroes of our faith? Who are we to question the power of their intercession?

All intercession, yours, mine, Mary's, Paul's.. Necessarily goes through Jesus as He is indeed the only mediator between men and God. But that does not make our intercession powerless, on the contrary, that is the very thing that empowers our intercession for others!

The communion of the saints is real!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[EloyCraft]

She is not God and does not have that power as He does.

Hello this sentence bothers me because it is an accusation of idolatry. It's such a misinformed expression of Catholic doctrine. There are folks who may chase encounters with spiritual manifestation. Marian apparitions offer an avenue for some of immature faith to make an Idol out of Marian devotion by a kind of addiction to seeking a supernatural experience. This is regrettable and is corrected by the Bishop in authority where it's happening.
But for your average Joe Catholic being told that Mary isn't God is like telling a doctor how to use a stethoscope.
Also, a person of average intellect can understand that Mary is a human and how human nature is distinct from divine nature. A person able to reason that much could not mistake the veneration felt for a holy human person with the magnitude of adoration and awe felt in contemplating God. Idolatry is impossible in that case.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So are you saying that praying for one another is worthless?

As for hearing:

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses

And God surely hears! If He answers prayer at the invocation of the heroes of our faith? Who are we to question the power of their intercession?

All intercession, yours, mine, Mary's, Paul's.. Necessarily goes through Jesus as He is indeed the only mediator between men and God. But that does make our intercession powerless, on the contrary, that is the very thing that empowers our intercession for others!

The communion of the saints is real!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

The key word was 'dead.' We who are still alive may pray for one another. Why? Because it is written! Conduct associated with witchcraft is forbidden. We cannot consult those who died and have not risen from the dead at the second coming of Christ. It is not written that Mary ever was raised from the dead, except in RCC traditions that are made up by man.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Hello this sentence bothers me because it is an accusation of idolatry. It's such a misinformed expression of Catholic doctrine. There are folks who may chase encounters with spiritual manifestation. Marian apparitions offer an avenue for some of immature faith to make an Idol out of Marian devotion by a kind of addiction to seeking a supernatural experience. This is regrettable and is corrected by the Bishop in authority where it's happening.
But for your average Joe Catholic being told that Mary isn't God is like telling a doctor how to use a stethoscope.
Also, a person of average intellect can understand that Mary is a human and how human nature is distinct from divine nature. A person able to reason that much could not mistake the veneration felt for a holy human person with the magnitude of adoration and awe felt in contemplating God. Idolatry is impossible in that case.

What is normal reasoning for some is impossible for those who were raised with myths to believe, such as praying to Mary - a dead on earth human being.

Do you agree with the rest of my post you ignored?

 

[Jim B]

So are you saying that praying for one another is worthless?

As for hearing:

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses

And God surely hears! If He answers prayer at the invocation of the heroes of our faith? Who are we to question the power of their intercession?

All intercession, yours, mine, Mary's, Paul's.. Necessarily goes through Jesus as He is indeed the only mediator between men and God. But that does not make our intercession powerless, on the contrary, that is the very thing that empowers our intercession for others!

The communion of the saints is real!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

a) Why not pray directly to God, as the Bible tells us to do, instead of asking (dead) intercessors to pray for you? You yourself wrote that God surely hears, so why not pray directly to Him if that's what you believe?

Again, if you write that Christ is risen, why do you depict Him as dead? Can't you give an answer to that?

 

[Jim B]

The key word was 'dead.' We who are still alive may pray for one another. Why? Because it is written! Conduct associated with witchcraft is forbidden. We cannot consult those who died and have not risen from the dead at the second coming of Christ. It is not written that Mary ever was raised from the dead, except in RCC traditions that are made up by man.

Great post!

 

[Philip James]

The key word was 'dead.' We who are still alive may pray for one another.

Here you are again.. Where is your faith? Do you not believe Jesus?

Jesus told her, "I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,

and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

They are very much alive!

Peace be with you!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Here you are again.. Where is your faith? Do you not believe Jesus?

Jesus told her, "I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,

and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

They are very much alive!

Peace be with you!

Yes, those who are born again have eternal life in their soul and spirit, and eventually in our resurrected body that will presently decay when we die and are still in the grave. What you don't understand is that your 'holy' traditions are only traditions, because they are erroneously made up, and NOT part of scriptural truth, thus are not holy. To believe these lies is the effect of having been brainwashed. Scripture already has stated that Jesus Christ is the only mediator between man and God and is totally accessible. We are to pray to God directly in His Son's name. Period. Don't add heresies to holy scripture. To do otherwise is having no faith in Jesus and God's Word! You only have faith in your false human teachers.

 

[Jim B]

Here you are again.. Where is your faith? Do you not believe Jesus?

Jesus told her, "I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,

and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

They are very much alive!

Peace be with you!

Where in the Bible does it say to pray to dead people -- people who have already died -- instead of to God.

BTW, do you know about Saint Roche, the patron saint of dogs? Should I pray to him about my three dogs? I mean, really, how screwed up can your Catholic denomination get?

 

[Jim B]

Yes, those who are born again have eternal life in their soul and spirit, and eventually in our resurrected body that will presently decay when we die and are still in the grave. What you don't understand is that your 'holy' traditions are only traditions, because they are erroneously made up, and NOT part of scriptural truth, thus are not holy. To believe these lies is the effect of having been brainwashed. Scripture already has stated that Jesus Christ is the only mediator between man and God and is totally accessible. We are to pray to God directly in His Son's name. Period. Don't add heresies to holy scripture. To do otherwise is having no faith in Jesus and God's Word! You only have faith in your false human teachers.

Great post!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well good for you then . But now i humbly ask you to FLEE THE CC as well .

Why would I flee the ONE Church established by Christ in order to join Some other sect established by Is flawed, sinful men??

 

[Philip James]

We are to pray to God directly in His Son's name. Period

My dear Lady,

You are contradicting yourself, you say its ok to ask one another to pray for us, and then suggest that to do so is heresy... Make up your mind?

And it is you who are following the traditions of men, in rejecting the communion of the saints that has been lived and practiced by the Church for 2000 years..

Get over yourself..

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Jim B]

My dear Lady,

You are contradicting yourself, you say its ok to ask one another to pray for us, and then suggest that to do so is heresy... Make up your mind?

And it is you who are following the traditions of men, in rejecting the communion of the saints that has been lived and practiced by the Church for 2000 years..

Get over yourself..

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

There is nothing wrong with asking living people to pray for you. It is insanity to ask dead people to pray for you. Nobody needs a dead person to be an intercessor for them. That is heresy.

Why do you never respond when I ask how you can say that Christ is risen yet depict Him as dead?

 

[EloyCraft]

What is normal reasoning for some is impossible for those who were raised with myths to believe, such as praying to Mary - a dead on earth human being.

Do you agree with the rest of my post you ignored?

I didn't ignore it I didn't feel compelled to respond.
How could I agree with a used up old fallacious strawman of Catholic beliefs that has been refuted repeatedly. It serves as an image of the Catholic Church that is weak , spiritually ignorant , and easy to correct.
I will say it's your loss to remain outside a community of Faith and worship that enjoys today victory that you are waiting for the future to unfold. That's why you don't grasp that we have members of our community victorious, with God in Glory waiting for the resurrection of their bodies. You think us too ignorant to understand the difference between occultic practices of necromancy and divination and the community of Saints in heaven. Unlike Lazarus and the rich man in torments, the great chasm that separated them does not divide the body of Christ.

As an aside, did you notice that the rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus to intercede for the living on earth for their salvation? Did you notice that Jesus considered it as a normal thing to believe? That Lazarus wasn't dead unable to hear or minister to the living?
Abraham wouldn't let Lazarus do that not because it couldn't happen but because they wouldn't believe even if someone who returned from the dead.
Now I expect that evidence from scriptures that should cast doubt on your knowledge of Catholic beliefs. That what you understand is grounded in anti-Catholicism and bears no resemblance to the real deal. Will be ignored.

 

[Truther]

Matt. 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

a) What's the Father's name??
b) What's the Holy Spirit's name??

I already educated you on this matter back inpost #964.
Here it is AGAIN . . .

The Greek word used for "Name" in Matt. 28:19 is ονομα (on'-om-ah).
Here is the DEFINITON of that word:
1) name: univ. of proper names 2) the name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is aroused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one's rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds etc.

It's important to rememer ONE thing, son:
Greek is NOT English, so you've LOST this argument . . .

You fell for my trap.

You, along with most of Christendom do not know what the name of the son is.

So, you should be actually baptizing in whatever name you want to call the Father or the Holy Ghost, but must say "Jesus" when baptizing.

Instead, all of you refuse to name the son's actual name.

Like this, 'I baptize you in the name of the Father(YHWH etc), Jesus Christ and The Holy Ghost(Dove etc)".

All this is about from the Nicene council is eradicating the name of Jesus from baptism.

You really should see that, because it is as obvious as the nose on your face.

 

[user]

You fell for my trap.

You, along with most of Christendom do not know what the name of the son is.

So, you should be actually baptizing in whatever name you want to call the Father or the Holy Ghost, but must say "Jesus" when baptizing.

Instead, all of you refuse to name the son's actual name.

Like this, 'I baptize you in the name of the Father(YHWH etc), Jesus Christ and The Holy Ghost(Dove etc)".

All this is about from the Nicene council is eradicating the name of Jesus from baptism.

You really should see that, because it is as obvious as the nose on your face.

Not doubt that when @BreadOfLife and @theefaith fill out a form, they render it thus...

Fill in the Name of your Country = They write the word country
Fill in the Name of your State = They write the word state
Fill in the Name of your City = They write the word city

 

[Illuminator]

Absolutely. Not who the Catholics say she is.

In Jeremiah 7:18, God is indeed upset with the Israelites for worshipping a false goddess called the "queen of heaven". However, just because God rebuked them for worshipping the false queen of heaven, doesn’t mean that we cannot pay honor to the true Queen of Heaven…the Blessed Mother.

That type of thinking would lead you to believe that just because people worship a false god that they call "god," we, therefore, should not call the true God, by that same name…God…because that’s the same title the idolaters use for their god! That is faulty logic and it makes no sense whatsoever.

Again, the fact that there is a false "queen of heaven", does not lead to the conclusion that we worship a false goddess when we call Mary the "Queen of Heaven." Just as the fact that there is a false "god", does not lead to the conclusion that we worship a false god when we call our Father in Heaven, God.

And there is a true Queen of Heaven, we see this quite clearly in Revelation 12:1, "And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars…" Let’s see. There’s a woman…she’s in Heaven…and she has a crown on her head. I could be wrong, but I don’t think it’s the maid! No! It is the true Queen of Heaven, Mary, the mother of the male child who is to rule the nations.

We do not worship Mary, we honor her, just as Jesus honors her. So, there is absolutely nothing wrong, from a scriptural point of view, in calling Mary the Queen of Heaven, and in honoring her just as Jesus honors her.
Isn't Calling Mary "Queen of Heaven" Idolatry?