Who is the Book of James writen to

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H. Richard

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Wormwood said:
1. James is writing to Christians. Gentiles who put faith in the Messiah, Jesus, are grafted into Israel while Israelites who do not believe in their Messiah are cut off. The NT authors are incredibly clear on this issue. If a person misses this, they miss the real significance of the New Covenant and how the broken body of Christ brings peace between Jews and Gentiles.

2. If James was writing to Christians, then he is writing to those who are not under law.
James, the book writer said who he was writing too.

James 1:1
1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings.
NKJV

How can anyone add to what James wrote without it just being an assumption. I think that the Gentiles that believed Paul's gospel were first called Christians.

Both the Jews and Gentiles feed off the same root which is Jesus Christ. However the Gentile branches are grafted into the root to replace broken off Jewish branches. If you graft in a wild olive branch into a root it remains a wild branch feeding off that same root. The wild one does not become like the original ones.
 

Barrd

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H. Richard said:
I have re-read some of your work here on the forum and I see that I have mis-understood you on several posts.

After hearing so many preachers teaching that God has changed them and they no longer sin (except for the smaller ones) I took a very close look at my own life and heart. Out of the same heart comes blessings and curses and I can not control many of them. When reading Romans 7 I took a closer look at verse 25 and the last 7 words of that verse and realized the truth behind the fact that God has made a way for the ungodly to be saved. I am just like Paul a man that God reached down and saved through His (God's) grace. Now I no longer place any trust in my ability to keep from sinning in my mind.

Phil 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
NKJV


Rom 7:25
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

By the way, why do you call me king. I wish you wouldn't do that.
I really need to get more coffee into me before I post on here.
This isn't the first time I've called a user by another user's name.
My most abject and humble apologies, H. Richard.
My fault entirely...I promise to try to do better from now on....at least get people's names right.
 

Barrd

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FHII said:
Yea, that does come off as creepy. But Barrd did mention she was burning the midnight oil. One possible explanation is that there is a member that goes by KJV. she may have thought she was talking to him.
You got me, FHII.
That is exactly what happened...I confused Richard with another user.
In my defense, it was the wee hours of the morning....but still, it does make me seem rather rude.
I do hope Richard will accept my apology....and anyone else whose names I might have confused....to anyone I may have offended, my most humble apologies...
 

FHII

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Its a forum, Barrd. And though not all of us are in agreeance, we have grown close enough to understand and look past such things.

And happy New year, my friend!
 

Barrd

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FHII said:
Its a forum, Barrd. And though not all of us are in agreeance, we have grown close enough to understand and look past such things.

And happy New year, my friend!
There are some here that I feel very close to, FHII....and I am looking forward to meeting my friends when we all meet at last.
When that day comes, expect a big hug and a real kiss on your cheek...till then, Happy New Year back atcha, my friend!
 

H. Richard

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The Barrd said:
I really need to get more coffee into me before I post on here.
This isn't the first time I've called a user by another user's name.
My most abject and humble apologies, H. Richard.
My fault entirely...I promise to try to do better from now on....at least get people's names right.
I think I have done the same thing in the past but my excuse is not the coffee, it's old age. Apology accepted but was not necessary. I was not holding it against you.
 

Barrd

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H. Richard said:
I think I have done the same thing in the past but my excuse is not the coffee, it's old age. Apology accepted but was not necessary. I was not holding it against you.
You're not telling your age, or your gender.

With a name like "H. Richard", I'm guessing you are probably male...unless Richard is your last name. You could be a "Helen" or a "Hilary", I suppose.

If you're gonna claim old age as an excuse, I hope you're older than 65...

:p After all, I am only 65, myself. :D
 

Wormwood

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H. Richard said:
James, the book writer said who he was writing too.

James 1:1
1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings.
NKJV

How can anyone add to what James wrote without it just being an assumption. I think that the Gentiles that believed Paul's gospel were first called Christians.

Both the Jews and Gentiles feed off the same root which is Jesus Christ. However the Gentile branches are grafted into the root to replace broken off Jewish branches. If you graft in a wild olive branch into a root it remains a wild branch feeding off that same root. The wild one does not become like the original ones.
The wild branch does become like the originals. As Paul says very plainly, "In Christ there is no Jew or Gentile..." Why would you erect boundaries that Christ has broken down?
 

H. Richard

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The Barrd said:
You're not telling your age, or your gender.

With a name like "H. Richard", I'm guessing you are probably male...unless Richard is your last name. You could be a "Helen" or a "Hilary", I suppose.

If you're gonna claim old age as an excuse, I hope you're older than 65...

:p After all, I am only 65, myself. :D
I am male and 83 years old. I started trusting in the gospel of grace that Jesus gave Paul when I was 8 years old I spent many hours comparing what men say the scriptures tell us and find that most take them out of context to advance a theology. I did not let myself become brain washed into the ideas of men but instead depended on the Holy Spirit to guide me to understanding. -- Some will make fun of my saying this and I am sure I will read it but they ignore the fact that the Holy Spirit is our teacher. Only He can open the eyes of people that Satan has blinded.
 

H. Richard

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Wormwood said:
The wild branch does become like the originals. As Paul says very plainly, "In Christ there is no Jew or Gentile..." Why would you erect boundaries that Christ has broken down?
I have not put a boundary between Jews and Gentiles. I said
"
Both the Jews and Gentiles feed off the same root which is Jesus Christ. However the Gentile branches are grafted into the root to replace broken off Jewish branches. If you graft in a wild olive branch into a root it remains a wild branch feeding off that same root. The wild one does not become like the original ones.

Rom 11:17
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
NKJV

Rom 11:19-21
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
NKJV

qupote> "The wild one does not become like the original ones." If you understand the process of grafting in hybrid flower braches onto a stronger root system you would understand the idea.
 

Barrd

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H. Richard said:
I have not put a boundary between Jews and Gentiles. I said
"
Both the Jews and Gentiles feed off the same root which is Jesus Christ. However the Gentile branches are grafted into the root to replace broken off Jewish branches. If you graft in a wild olive branch into a root it remains a wild branch feeding off that same root. The wild one does not become like the original ones.

Rom 11:17
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
NKJV

Rom 11:19-21
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
NKJV
I have to agree with WW, here.
The grafted in branches become a part of the tree. It is the root that bears the branches, not the other way around.

Remember what John the Baptist told the Jews:

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

We who are gentiles are the stones from which God has raised up children unto Abraham.

We are not Jews outwardly, according to our human birth, that is true.
But:

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 

H. Richard

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The Barrd said:
I have to agree with WW, here.
The grafted in branches become a part of the tree. It is the root that bears the branches, not the other way around.

Remember what John the Baptist told the Jews:

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

We who are gentiles are the stones from which God has raised up children unto Abraham.

We are not Jews outwardly, according to our human birth, that is true.
But:

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
I can't believe it. Do those on this forum see me saying that the branches support the tree? I never said that. What I said in bold letters is;

QUOTE "Both the Jews and Gentiles feed off the same root which is Jesus Christ." Since the writer of the words in the quote mentions both the Jews and the Gentiles my point is that they never become all Jews or all Gentiles.

God has a plan for the nation of Israel (the Jews) and He will bring it into a reality. There is a Nation of Jews called Israel established on this earth and Jesus will sit on the throne of David in that nation. What has happened is that God has TEMPORARLY sit aside the nation of Israel because of unbelief and has reached out to the Gentile (AND THE WHOLE WORLD) with a gospel of grace WHERE ALL (ANYONE) can be saved by belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the gospel of grace given to Paul by Jesus. A kingdom on this earth was not and is not promised to those today under grace (WHICH INCLUDES ALL MEN). According to Paul the destination of those saved under grace are destined to be in heaven.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: Ephesians 1:3

The Body of Christ is seated in heavenly places.

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Ephesians 2:6

Since God's new plan of salvation was not known until He (God) revealed it to Paul, the Body of Christ is ministering (making it known) to beings in heavenly places.
to the intent that """now""" the manifold wisdom of God might be ""made known by the Church"" TO THE principalities and powers in the heavenly places, Ephesians 3:10 (see also Eph 6:12
 

Wormwood

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Richard, the point here is that you are saying the Gentiles are not considered part of the "tribes" referenced in James' letter. We are trying to show you how the early Christians understood the Church and that the Gentiles who had faith in the Messiah were considered part of the "tribes" of Israel and sons of Abraham (Gal. 3:29). There is nothing in James' letter to suggest he was not referring to Gentiles and only Jews. In fact, he references the gathering of believers in Jesus and the behaviors of believers in those gatherings (James 2:1). Certainly these groups of believers were not exclusively Jewish! Can you imagine one of the elders of the local church reading this and saying, "Brother Gentiles, this is addressed to the "tribes" and that is not you. You can be excused as we read this to the Jews." That is not the case in any way. These words are equally applicable to all believers. Paul makes it very clear that true Israel is not about the flesh of Abraham but the faith of Abraham. Moreover, Peter calls the church, including Gentiles, "chosen people," "royal priesthood," "holy nation," and so forth which were titles for Israel. It is abundantly clear that the early Church saw themselves as the true offspring of Abraham and the Gentiles who were of the faith of Abraham were grafted into the tribes and were more a true Israelite than the unbelieving Jews. As John the Baptist declared, "Dont say to yourself, 'We have Abraham as our father" for I tell you out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham." He called those who were "not his people" his people and those who were "not his loved ones" he declared to be his children. There is no such thing as a child of God who is not part of true Israel. To say otherwise is to see things from a carnal, rather than a spiritual point of view. God does not show favoritism. The circumcised are those who are circumcised of heart, and not merely of the flesh.
 

H. Richard

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Wormwood said:
Richard, the point here is that you are saying the Gentiles are not considered part of the "tribes" referenced in James' letter. We are trying to show you how the early Christians understood the Church and that the Gentiles who had faith in the Messiah were considered part of the "tribes" of Israel and sons of Abraham (Gal. 3:29). There is nothing in James' letter to suggest he was not referring to Gentiles and only Jews. In fact, he references the gathering of believers in Jesus and the behaviors of believers in those gatherings (James 2:1). Certainly these groups of believers were not exclusively Jewish! Can you imagine one of the elders of the local church reading this and saying, "Brother Gentiles, this is addressed to the "tribes" and that is not you. You can be excused as we read this to the Jews." That is not the case in any way. These words are equally applicable to all believers. Paul makes it very clear that true Israel is not about the flesh of Abraham but the faith of Abraham. Moreover, Peter calls the church, including Gentiles, "chosen people," "royal priesthood," "holy nation," and so forth which were titles for Israel. It is abundantly clear that the early Church saw themselves as the true offspring of Abraham and the Gentiles who were of the faith of Abraham were grafted into the tribes and were more a true Israelite than the unbelieving Jews. As John the Baptist declared, "Dont say to yourself, 'We have Abraham as our father" for I tell you out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham." He called those who were "not his people" his people and those who were "not his loved ones" he declared to be his children. There is no such thing as a child of God who is not part of true Israel. To say otherwise is to see things from a carnal, rather than a spiritual point of view. God does not show favoritism. The circumcised are those who are circumcised of heart, and not merely of the flesh.
I know what you are saying. However I do not believe it. I am trying to show that the book of James, by the words in that book, clearly tells us it is written to the Jews only. To think otherwise is to make it a book written to who ever a person wants to think it is. As for me I will believe the words as written in James 1:1 to mean exactly what they say. Since it seem that some want to make the Gentiles into Jews then tell me, which tribe they will belong too, which one of the 12 Apostles will be ruling over them when Jesus sets up His kingdom?

James 1:1
1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings.
NKJV

Acts 11:19
19 Now those who were scattered after the persecution that arose over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to no one but the Jews only.
NKJV

The problem with the confusion in the scriptures is that some take liberties with what is written as if the Holy Spirit got it wrong when HE led the writers to write.

No where do I find, in the scriptures, that the Gentiles become Jews. That is an idea fostered by men. No where, in the scriptures, do I find that those saved under grace are included in the 1,000 year reign of Christ. Their abode is in Heaven.

Col 1:20
20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
NKJV

Both Jews and Gentiles feed off the same root which is Jesus.

Phil 3:20
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
NKJV

Those under grace are citizens of heaven, not of this earth.

The error is that religious people want to take what Jesus and the12 taught to the Jews, WHO WERE UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES and say it is to those under grace also. The book of Galatians was written by Paul to his converts to offset the influence of the believing Jews who were trying to get those under grace to go under the Law. Looks to me that people should take a closer look at the book of Galatians.

I have a study on this forum called "A STUDY ON ACTS 20:20-21. It is 3 pages long. It is a STUDY. But it seems one thought it to long to read. I understand that if 3 pages is to long to hold a person attention then I am in doubts as to their knowledge of what scriptures teach.

I will continue to believe that the Gentiles (and some Jews) (who are under grace) DO NOT become Jews under the law.
 

Wormwood

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H. Richard,

It is fine if you hold that opinion, but you need to be aware that there is pretty much no Christian scholar who would make this argument. This letter has always been understood throughout church history to be directed to Christians. The assigning of 12 Apostles by Jesus make it clear that he was setting up a new eschatological Israel and that the cross and establishment of the Church was God's means of drawing all nations to himself. Jesus is the true Israel and all who are in Christ are heirs, sons and daughters of Abraham and are part of God's holy people/nation. Consider just a few commentaries from leading scholars and their thoughts on this introduction:

Jesus’ choice of twelve apostles suggests that his mission was to bring into being this eschatological Israel. See especially Matt. 19:28 (par. Luke 22:30): “Jesus said to them, ‘I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.’ ” The book of Revelation similarly pictures the people of God of the last days in terms of 12,000 people drawn from each of the twelve tribes (Rev. 7:5–8) and of the heavenly Jerusalem, with twelve gates on which “were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel” (Rev. 21:12). By calling his readers “the twelve tribes,” then, James claims that they constitute the true people of God of the “last days.”

Douglas J. Moo, The Letter of James, The Pillar New Testament Commentary (Grand Rapids, MI; Leicester, England: Eerdmans; Apollos, 2000), 49–50.
The use of the term here, however, has been extended to apply to all the people of God in Christ. The three uses of the verb diaspeirō in the New Testament all refer to the scattering of the church (Acts 8:1, 4; 11:19). The noun diaspora also occurs three times. In John 7:35 it refers to Jews living among the Gentiles. But here and in 1 Pet 1:1 the reference is to the inclusive people of God who are scattered throughout the earth. James wanted to affirm the closest connection between Jewish and Gentile Christians. They were all related by faith through Christ and through “our father” Abraham (cf. 2:21 and Gal 3:9). The idea of the church as the restored Israel appears in the New Testament in several key passages (Matt 19:28; Luke 22:30; Rom 4; 1 Cor 10:1; Gal 4:21–31; 3:16; Phil 3; Rev 21:12). The sense here is that the church is the continuation of God’s people Israel in a representative sense (Rom 9:24–26; Gal 6:16; 1 Pet 2:9).

Kurt A. Richardson, James, vol. 36, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1997), 54–55.
In this letter the phrase obviously refers to Christians, not to Jews. It is possible that the reference is to Jewish Christians, but more likely it is to be taken figuratively as a description of the Christians, the new people of God who constitute the new Israel (compare Gal 6:16; also Matt 19:28). It is for this reason that TEV renders the expression as “all God’s people,” and in many languages this will be a suitable translation. However, if a translator wishes to retain the expression twelve tribes, it will be helpful to include a footnote explaining the term. The footnote in CEV reads: “twelve tribes scattered all over the world: James is saying that the Lord’s followers are like the tribes of Israel that were scattered everywhere by their enemies.”

I-Jin Loh and Howard Hatton, A Handbook on the Letter from James, UBS Handbook Series (New York: United Bible Societies, 1997), 8.
Now, its fine if you dont want to agree with the primary line of thought on this issue throughout Church history and what most reputable Christian scholars believe today about this introduction. However, let us not pretend that I am just ignoring the introduction and arbitrarily assigning it to "who ever" I want. You are the one going against the overwhelming agreement of what scholars and teachers throughout history have taught about this book, not me.

No where do I find, in the scriptures, that the Gentiles become Jews. That is an idea fostered by men. No where, in the scriptures, do I find that those saved under grace are included in the 1,000 year reign of Christ. Their abode is in Heaven.
Well, you are implementing some very debated eschatological ideas as a means of establishing your point. Not a good idea. If you want to use Dispensational Premillennial eschatology to prove James is written to Jews only, then I'd say your hermeneutics are incredibly suspect.

Those under grace are citizens of heaven, not of this earth.
What does this have to do with the introduction to James and the relationship between Jews and Gentiles in Christ?

I have a study on this forum called "A STUDY ON ACTS 20:20-21. It is 3 pages long. It is a STUDY. But it seems one thought it to long to read. I understand that if 3 pages is to long to hold a person attention then I am in doubts as to their knowledge of what scriptures teach.
I am not sure what to make of this comment. Here are a few thoughts:
1. Who said I was unwilling or unable to read your 3 page study?
2. Why would someone's unwillingness to read something you wrote constitute a poor attention span or lack of scriptural knowledge?
3. Why do you feel the impetus is on me to search out things you have written rather than you taking the time to share information pertinent to this discussion?
4. What if your 3 page document does not change my views on Israel and the Gentiles. Do you think that I am so unread on this issue that it will only take a short document to change my entire understanding of the NT?
 

Barrd

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H. Richard said:
I know what you are saying. However I do not believe it. I am trying to show that the book of James, by the words in that book, clearly tells us it is written to the Jews only. To think otherwise is to make it a book written to who ever a person wants to think it is. As for me I will believe the words as written in James 1:1 to mean exactly what they say. Since it seem that some want to make the Gentiles into Jews then tell me, which tribe they will belong too, which one of the 12 Apostles will be ruling over them when Jesus sets up His kingdom?

James 1:1
1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings.
NKJV

Acts 11:19
19 Now those who were scattered after the persecution that arose over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to no one but the Jews only.
NKJV

The problem with the confusion in the scriptures is that some take liberties with what is written as if the Holy Spirit got it wrong when HE led the writers to write.

No where do I find, in the scriptures, that the Gentiles become Jews. That is an idea fostered by men. No where, in the scriptures, do I find that those saved under grace are included in the 1,000 year reign of Christ. Their abode is in Heaven.

Col 1:20
20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
NKJV

Both Jews and Gentiles feed off the same root which is Jesus.

Phil 3:20
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
NKJV

Those under grace are citizens of heaven, not of this earth.

The error is that religious people want to take what Jesus and the12 taught to the Jews, WHO WERE UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES and say it is to those under grace also. The book of Galatians was written by Paul to his converts to offset the influence of the believing Jews who were trying to get those under grace to go under the Law. Looks to me that people should take a closer look at the book of Galatians.

I have a study on this forum called "A STUDY ON ACTS 20:20-21. It is 3 pages long. It is a STUDY. But it seems one thought it to long to read. I understand that if 3 pages is to long to hold a person attention then I am in doubts as to their knowledge of what scriptures teach.

I will continue to believe that the Gentiles (and some Jews) (who are under grace) DO NOT become Jews under the law.

Did Jesus take the Kingdom away from the Jews?

Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Uh....

Yeah.
 

H. Richard

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Some people take the opinions of others to form their own. I always know, after the fact, that when someone uses the "WE" word on a forums it is meant to indicate that they are in the majority and the person addressed is in the minority I remember that Jesus said only a few find it and that excludes the many. I also know that there are those who will call something black when it is white and no matter how much is told or shown to them they will not change their minds.

It seems that the word "FORUM" means that a person has to submit to ideas that the "WE" have even if a STUDY OF THE SCRIPTURES says otherwise. It is a pity that not many will actually study the scriptures to see what THEY (the scriptures) say and just simply believe what some others say.. The scriptures, in a certain placed said that there were those that listened to what other said BUT they searched the scriptures to see if it was true.

-- I believe what the scriptures say, not what Joe Blow said they say. But unlike some, I am willing to listen and then form my own opinion as to whether it is true based on the SCRIPTURES, A person is not going to be judged on what others say the scriptures mean; they are going to be judged on what they actually say. If a person has the time to actually read the "Acts 20:20-21 STUDY they will understand that James and the 12 were not teaching that the Jews, like the Gentile, were not under the law of Moses any longer (read the book of Galatians) when Paul condemns the Jews who were trying to get the Gentiles to follow the Law of Moses.

THEREFORE, the 12 were not teaching the Jews that they were NOW under grace and not under the law of Moses. The only conclusion is that Paul's gospel of grace WAS NOT THE SAME as the Jews gospel of the kingdom at hand which never did away with the law. I suppose they are those that are so indoctrinated in their religion that they no longer believe in the scriptures.

Religions that teach a gospel that mixes what Jesus and the 12 taught "UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES" to the Jews and the Gospel of grace that Jesus gave to Paul for the whole world are, in my opinion, are sending many to Hell. You can't mix the Law of Moses with grace. One is what man does thinking they will please God and He will let them into heaven and the other is what Jesus has already done when He shed His blood on the cross. All sins of mankind have been done away with in Jesus shed blood. The only sin that condemns a person in this age is unbelief, to not believe in Jesus' (God's) work on the cross.
 

Barrd

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...following a Jewish carpenter...
H. Richard said:
Some people take the opinions of others to form their own. I always know, after the fact, that when someone uses the "WE" word on a forums it is meant to indicate that they are in the majority and the person addressed is in the minority I remember that Jesus said only a few find it and that excludes the many. I also know that there are those who will call something black when it is white and no matter how much is told or shown to them they will not change their minds.

It seems that the word "FORUM" means that a person has to submit to ideas that the "WE" have even if a STUDY OF THE SCRIPTURES says otherwise. It is a pity that not many will actually study the scriptures to see what THEY (the scriptures) say and just simply believe what some others say.. The scriptures, in a certain placed said that there were those that listened to what other said BUT they searched the scriptures to see if it was true.

-- I believe what the scriptures say, not what Joe Blow said they say. But unlike some, I am willing to listen and then form my own opinion as to whether it is true based on the SCRIPTURES, A person is not going to be judged on what others say the scriptures mean; they are going to be judged on what they actually say. If a person has the time to actually read the "Acts 20:20-21 STUDY they will understand that James and the 12 were not teaching that the Jews, like the Gentile, were not under the law of Moses any longer (read the book of Galatians) when Paul condemns the Jews who were trying to get the Gentiles to follow the Law of Moses.

THEREFORE, the 12 were not teaching the Jews that they were NOW under grace and not under the law of Moses. The only conclusion is that Paul's gospel of grace WAS NOT THE SAME as the Jews gospel of the kingdom at hand which never did away with the law. I suppose they are those that are so indoctrinated in their religion that they no longer believe in the scriptures.

Religions that teach a gospel that mixes what Jesus and the 12 taught "UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES" to the Jews and the Gospel of grace that Jesus gave to Paul for the whole world are, in my opinion, are sending many to Hell. You can't mix the Law of Moses with grace. One is what man does thinking they will please God and He will let them into heaven and the other is what Jesus has already done when He shed His blood on the cross. All sins of mankind have been done away with in Jesus shed blood. The only sin that condemns a person in this age is unbelief, to not believe in Jesus' (God's) work on the cross.
I do not believe that there is any part of the Bible that is not intended for everyone who will read it.

The Apostles and Paul have the very same message for all of us. I do not understand how it is that some folks seem to get the idea that "under grace" means that we need not obey God's commandments. Jesus never taught such a thing, nor did His Apostles...nor did Paul.

I can see how, if one wants to believe that the rule book has been tossed out, it would be necessary to somehow get rid of James...but this idea that James wrote it only to the Jews just doesn't work.

You say "all sins have been done away with in Jesus shed blood." Good news for serial killers, rapists, child molesters, etc! Carry on doing what you do, because there is no such thing as "sin" any more. Everything from ripping off that necklace at WalMart, all the way up to murder, is permissible, because all sin has been done away.

Uh...no. You might want to think about that a little bit.....