Where does the Bible say...

[Entanglement]

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

I see.

 

[Entanglement]

Man I love Yoshi.

 

[theefaith]

I see.

the authority of christ is in the apostles persons

 

[theefaith]

Jn 15:5 apart from me

There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3

Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18

————————

Without a central authority there can be no unity of the spirit, no obedience to the faith!
God - Christ - Peter - the apostles - the apostles successors - the people

The nature of authority is hierarchy!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

————————-

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

—————————
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the age, so the successors must remain until the end of the age) matt 28:19

(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)

—————————

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors in the church founded in the one true founded by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

————————-

The obedience of faith!

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.

Taught the one true faith revealed by Christ to His apostles! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

We are not commanded to read and make doctrine for ourselves but obey those who God puts in authority.

 

[Entanglement]

the authority of christ is in the apostles persons

I don't care.

 

[ReChoired]

I don't care.

What do you think of history, archeological finds, and Creation?

Ever heard of the Aussie John Mackay?

What do you care about?

 

[Entanglement]

What do you think of history, archeological finds, and Creation?

Ever heard of the Aussie John Mackay?

What do you care about?

Why are you asking this question? What thread am I in.

 

[theefaith]

Matthew 18:18
Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

The apostles were not given authority to bind and loose as you suggest. Rather, Jesus is teaching his apostles to identify what has already been bound in heaven. In our time, we would call these men "subject matter experts." Such people are not given the power to change the laws of
God or innovate new ones. They have been given insight, wisdom, and experience such that they have been granted knowledge of God's will for mankind and the responsibility to disseminate that knowledge to the world.

Matt 28:19-29 what are the things Christ commanded the apostles?

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[ReChoired]

Why are you asking this question?

Interested in what interests you. Surely you did not come to this thread to merely hear what others have to say, and have your own thing to say.

What thread am I in.

Where Does The Bible Say [Thread], as far as I am aware. So I was curious as to your own interest in this thread, and in other things.

 

[Brakelite]

What we are all witnessing here throughout this thread is an affirmation by the Catholic members of this forum that the only way to be saved is through the Catholic Church. The same old centuries old papal primacy being pushed onto Protestants here in this forum. I do wonder at the tolerance given this by the moderators.

 

[JunChosen]

Matt 28:19-29 what are the things Christ commanded the apostles?

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Are the Apostles alive today? If not why then could Jesus say He will be with them "even to the end of the world"?

As I've alluded to in the past, you and the CC truly do not have the knowledge and understanding of Scripture!

The authority set forth in Mt. 28 which we call the Great Commission were given to all believers and not only to the Apostles of Jesus' day.

DO YOU AND THE CC EVEN UNDERSTAND HOW TO READ AND UNDERSTAND THE WORD OF GOD THE WAY ITS' INTENTED?

No you don't! Because you have a different Gospel from that of the Bible. Your authority is not God but your church.

WHY? Because you believe that the pillar and ground of truth is the church (your church).

Unbeknown to you Jesus said "...I am the way, the truth, and the life..."

Who do you think is telling the truth? (oops pardon the pun)

You are in the market place, you and your church are teaching heresy!

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Entanglement]

Interested in what interests you. Surely you did not come to this thread to merely hear what others have to say, and have your own thing to say.



Where Does The Bible Say [Thread], as far as I am aware. So I was curious as to your own interest in this thread, and in other things.

Interested in what interests you. Surely you did not come to this thread to merely hear what others have to say, and have your own thing to say.

I do have interests. I think I do.

 

[ReChoired]

I do have interests. I think I do.

Ok, you don't have to tell me, I was just asking. See ya round.

 

[Entanglement]

Posted in the wrong thread.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Matt 28:19-29 what are the things Christ commanded the apostles?

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Again, the apostles are to baptize "in the name of" the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Their authority is inalienable.

 

[Marymog]

LOL! Lets see, that's two RCC's that run when they can't handle the truth. I can see why. God Bless.

You failed to provide evidence for YOUR Sabbatarian "truth" but lil' ol Marymog is running away because she can't handle the truth????? That makes no sense....

Its a very simple request: Show me a single passage in Scripture where Jesus said that Christians are to gather on Saturday. You failed!!!

God Bless...mary

 

[Marymog]

Jesus practiced the Sabbath! As did all the Apostles even after he had ascended. And on the Sabbath day God decreed. John Knox? Not even close............
You've already ignored the facts your own church members have laid down in history in writing! Particularly as pertains to the church changing Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday! Because they believe they have that right!
............

Yup, Jesus and the Apostles practiced the Sabbath. Did you know they were Jews???? That is what the Jews did kiddo!!

Show me in Scripture where all the apostles continued to practice the Saturday worship after He ascended.

Yes, your leader John Knox. You prefer the writings of a 16th century man. I prefer the writings of a man who was a student of the Apostle John:

Ignatius of Antioch “[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

I prefer the writings of men who lived at the time of Christ:

The Didache “But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas “We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead” (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).

You have your 16th century heroes who twist Scripture. But us Christians were warned about them.

I have my heroes who walked and talked with the Apostles. The 1st century Church, the Apostles, changed the Sabbath worship to Sunday worship. I agree with you that my Church changed the Sabbath....at least we agree on something

Mary

PS-The rest of your post rambles on about baptism, purgatory etc. blah blah blah. Since those matters are off the subject we are talking about I digress.

 

[Marymog]

Why don't you pay/pray attention to the excerpts from the patriarchs of your own church? Who STATE the church changed the Sabbath of its own volition, not that of God, and why they did so?

No Jew in Jesus' day honored the Sabbath on Sunday.

Hi watersong,

I agree with you. My Church did change the Sabbath. I don't think I ever disagreed with you on that.

The very first concrete evidence we have of the men of my Church acknowledging that the Sabbath had been changed from Saturday to Sunday was in a writing by a student of the Apostle John. He was one of the first Bishops in my Church. It was Ignatius, surnamed Theophoros, who was bishop of Antioch in the 1st century. He wrote: “[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death”

Would you care to share the earliest writings from the leaders of your Church showing they practiced The Lords Day on Saturday????

God bless....Patient Mary

 

[Illuminator]

The authority set forth in Mt. 28 which we call the Great Commission were given to all believers and not only to the Apostles of Jesus' day.

DO YOU AND THE CC EVEN UNDERSTAND HOW TO READ AND UNDERSTAND THE WORD OF GOD THE WAY ITS' INTENTED?

Only the Eleven were present when the Great Commission was given, not "all believers". You are reading into the passage what isn't there.

No you don't! Because you have a different Gospel from that of the Bible. Your authority is not God but your church.

This dogmatic statement is not in the Bible. God gave His authority to the church He established. The anti-church, anti-institution mentality does violence to Scripture and all of Christian history.

a recipe for chaos.

 

[Marymog]

[QUOTE="ReChoired, post: 897657, member: 8441]

However, even after all the texts shown on the matter, perhaps we can shift gears a moment, and speak about a doctrine I do not find in the Bible, namely - purgatory.

If I might ask a personal question, to you, and not to be in any way derogatory, but I am simply asking out of curiosity, as I used to think such things, having grown up Roman Catholic, and my question to you personally is this - Do you think you will personally go to 'purgatory', and if so, how long do you think you will be 'there'? (As I said, I am simply asking a technical question, not saying anything about your personal character, and am curious to know, as I used to think in this manner.)

Another question, in the same fashion, as I used to think on this too, is - Do you personally know of anyone who died that you might think is right now in 'purgatory', and if so, how long do you think they will be there for, and based upon what doctrinal criteria do you think this (if you think this)?

I would be glad to speak with you on this subject, as I am curious about your own position on it.[/QUOTE]
Thank you @ReChoired

Since you grew up Catholic you already know what The Church teaches on the matter:

Christians don't "know" where we are going when they die and Scripture teaches nothing unclean (with sin) will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27). Based on those facts how could I possibly 'know of anyone who died that I might think is right now in 'purgatory''?

My position on it is based on what Scripture says: Scripture says The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. The Church has the authority to decide who is going to be treated as a pagan or tax collector if they don't accept what The Church teaches. Example: The Churches decision at the Council of Jerusalem was binding on all Christians. Who am I to decide what doctrine is binding and what is not binding? It is The Church that decides what is binding....Mathew 18:18....not me! Not you. Not Calvin or Luther!

Your own Christian history shows that Christians, during the persecutions of the first three centuries, recorded prayers for the dead. What is your personal opinion on WHY they needed to pray for the dead if their souls went straight to heaven or hell after they died?

I do not feel you are being "derogatory".

Mary