- Dec 11, 2010
- 782
- 140
- 43
- 52
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
I just want you to use the Bible to back up what you believe, that way I get a good understanding of what you saying.
When Jesus Came out the Grave, he was Born Again.
- Thread starter bro.tan
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
OK so you believe Colossians 1:18 is a lie the devil somehow slipped in to God's Word when the Lord wasn't looking... got it.... here's another one beyond your comprehension
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
"justified in the Spirit" will remain a mystery to you and one you'll never be able to understand or explain.
Under the New Covenant among those having been born again being led by the Holy Ghost based on God's Word... that statement is no longer true. Under the New Covenant there are those who have been BORN AGAIN who's hearts are not evil because they are New Creatures IN CHRIST.
Ya gotta notice the difference between the old and new covenants.
I can show you what is not in the Bible. What is not in the Bible is we are not made quickening spirits like as Jesus was made.
Think about what you think about…
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Yes, and God's Word contains warnings against us falling away... and becoming CORRUPT once again:
Galatians 6:7,8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Of course the OSAS peoples are cherry pickers and they don't accept all of what God says in His Word
This explains why they hold on to OSAS which is doctrines of demons. Sad.
- Dec 11, 2010
- 782
- 140
- 43
- 52
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
So when Jesus died, he was born again he had a different Body and can do other things like pop up from nowhere, etc. Look at what 1 Peter says in Ch 1: 23 being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. Paul confirm what Peter says the same thing in 1 Corthinan 15: 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Only Jesus being born again for now. See there's a lot Roman Christianity teaching that will lead people in the wrong direction. Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen). (Matthew 7:13, 14) Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith.
The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).
A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods (Christmas, Easter, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his.
This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.
Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 2: 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
I was made alive when I got born again... if you are waiting for the rapture to get born again... you ain't gonna be in the catching away.
Sadly, carnally minded people seek to interpret some verses as only applying to the physical body.
No, it is not... I've been telling folks this for years
No... I've been born again.
Jesus is the first born from the dead... the first one to be separated from the Lord (spiritual death) and brought back in to right standing with the Lord.
On the Cross Jesus tells us the Father forsook Him which happened because Jesus was the offering for our sin as He never committed any sin Himself.
You are thinking of the flesh... I'm speaking of the spirit of man
When I got born again I became a new creature in Christ, didn't you?
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Exactly... some however believe they apparently get born again at the rapture...
They are confusing getting born again with their body being glorified which is being carnal minded as they don't understand the new birth according to scripture and they are thinking only of their body
Yes, they think that the rapture “born’s them again“. The rapture is when we put off this old body permanently. That is nothing to do with being born again. Being born again is while you were here on earth with your old carnal body.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
- Dec 11, 2010
- 782
- 140
- 43
- 52
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
That's Roman Christianity teaching, if Jesus the first born from the dead, then we have to wait to be the second born from the dead, which is at the first or second resurrection. Paul says in 1 Corinthains 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
If you come up in the first resurrection you have been found worthy, and have obtained eternal life, this is when you are born again. Remember what Jesus said to Nicodemus? "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God". He also said, "I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Now read this next verse and you will understand what Jesus was saying.....John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
This time hasn't came to pass as of yet. You must be a spirit being to worship the Father. Now, you should understand the statement Paul made in I Corinthians chapter 15:50, "Flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption”
Look at what 1 Peter says in Ch 1: 23 being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
LOL... You are the first person to post the truth on this topic!
bro.tan is correct... Jesus is the first born from the dead! The beginning of a new creation
Gal 6:15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
The other Paul... tells us.... 1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
So... If you are alive and well in the flesh.... you can not inherit the kingdom of God! Read 1Co 15:50 AGAIN!!!
Why? Because you still have to pay for your sins... IE... Death!
If Jesus paid the penalty for your sins.. IE.. Physical Death.... then no Christians would be require to die! Yet.... Christians die daily!
Jesus paid for your sins.... thus the ability to be born again... a new creation...
Gal 6:15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Jesus is the First Born from the dead!!! Born of Spirit!!
Luk 3:38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Adam was the son of God....
1Co 15:45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
Jesus is the last Adam! and he became... a life giving spirit... Note... he became, not alway was!
Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. .... Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:
Get ready for a new creation... not of flesh and blood... but of a ressurection from the dead... one of being born again!
Last edited:
Behold
Well-Known Member
When Jesus came out of the Grave, He was "risen from the Dead"
So, what died?
A.) His body
What about His Spirit?
A.) Sin was found ON Him.,.not IN HIM... and that means that His Spirit never died.
This is why it didn't need to be born again...
This is why Jesus said..>>"today YOU will be with me in Paradise".. as that was the LIVING Spirit of Christ.....still alive in Paradise, before His BODY was raised from the Dead, later.
Also.. Jesus said....>>>" I have the power to lay down my life, (on The Cross) and the power to take it up again... "
So, that would be The Lord doing that AFTER his Body is Dead....so, if His Spirit was also dead, then He HIMSELF would have no power to "take up my life .. again".
So, what died?
A.) His body
What about His Spirit?
A.) Sin was found ON Him.,.not IN HIM... and that means that His Spirit never died.
This is why it didn't need to be born again...
This is why Jesus said..>>"today YOU will be with me in Paradise".. as that was the LIVING Spirit of Christ.....still alive in Paradise, before His BODY was raised from the Dead, later.
Also.. Jesus said....>>>" I have the power to lay down my life, (on The Cross) and the power to take it up again... "
So, that would be The Lord doing that AFTER his Body is Dead....so, if His Spirit was also dead, then He HIMSELF would have no power to "take up my life .. again".
So true. This means you’re only born again once. Then you die. The resurrection is not being born again.
What died?
The man name Jesus died! Read the first words taught to the christian church...
NASB Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--
Your confused about the difference between your spirit and your soul...
First problem with your support verse is that Jesus did not go to paradise on the day of his death! He went to Hades (Grave) for 3 days then was resurrected unto life. So he could not have been with the thief in paradise on the day he died. Note too the Greek text does not contain commas. The text could also easily read with the comma coming after today… And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.
The second problem is that the spirit is not the same as the soul. The Soul does not immediately return to God, but the Spirit does! As Ecclesiastes 12:7 and Psalms 146:4 clearly teaches! (see below) Read Psalms 146:4 again, and note it does not teach his body returns to the earth but “he” or his body perishes but “thoughts.”
(Ecc 12:7) and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit (Breath rûaḥ) returns to God who gave it.
(Psa 146:4) His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.
Other support verses are…
(Gen 2:7) The Spirit is the breath of life
(Job 7:21) "Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity?
For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."
(Psa 104:29) You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust. 30 You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; And You renew the face of the ground.
Spirit - The word spirit usually brings to mind to most a ghostly image that separates from our bodies at death and departs to either heaven or hell. This definition which most of us are so familiar with is 100% Greek philosophy. It is pure Platonism. To Greek philosophers the words "spirit" and "soul" are interchangeable, they mean the same thing. To a Jew they are vastly different.
Platonism - Believed that we must be capable of existing apart from our bodies. The flesh is evil. The body is a prison. It is bad for the soul (i.e. spirit) to be in the body. Platonism suggests the immortality of the soul, and the soul then becoming incarnate (Grolier’s Encyclopedia (GE)).
This definition of "spirit" if used, will completely change the meanings of many passages in the Bible, and lead to false conclusions. It has inherent problems right away. First, only God is immortal (1 Timothy 6:15-16). Second, I do not know of anyone that would dispute that judgment happens at the return of Christ. So how then can your spirit or soul go to heaven or hell at death if you have not yet been judged? This should be a clue that something is wrong with this definition of "spirit."
Let us now examine what "spirit" means to a Jew. The word "spirit" in Hebrew is "ruah" and in Greek it is "pneuma." The Jews used ruah in the same way that they used pneuma.
"Unlike the Greeks, who found dissolution of the body desirable (cf Socrates), Paul has a Jewish horror of it" (Roman Catholic New American Bible (NAB)).
Spirit - (ruah & pneuma) - Breath of life. The vital principal by which the body is animated (Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (VED)).
In other words, it is the life force that God gives to people and animals that animates their bodies, which gives them life. When He takes it away they die.
Examples:
Psalms 104:29 -30: "When you take away their breath (ruah), they perish and return to the dust from which they came. When you send forth your breath (ruah), they are created."
Ecclesiates 12:7: "And the dust returns to the earth as it once was, and the life breath (ruah) returns to God who gave it."
Psalms 33:6: "When his spirit (ruah) departs he returns to his earth; on that day his plans perish."
This understanding is critical when one interprets a verse such as Luke 23:46:
"Father, into your hands I commend my spirit;" and when he said this he breathed his last.
If you use the Greek philosophical definition as most people do, you will arrive at the conclusion that at that moment Jesus’ Greek type spirit went to heaven to be with God. This of course is not possible because in John 20:17 when Jesus was raised from the dead after three days, he appeared to Mary of Magdala and told her:
"Stop holding on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father."
Jesus is clear that he has not yet been to the Father. Where has he been for three days? He has been in Sheol, the pit, the grave, the earth. Jesus himself tells us in John 12:32:
"And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself."
Jesus has been dead as Scripture says of him. On the third day God resurrected him. Also, if your spirit is in heaven you are not truly dead.
If we use the Jewish definition of spirit it will make perfect sense. Jesus’ breath of life returned to the Father and he died and was in the earth for three days. There is then no conflict with John 20:17.
So the best observation comes from Jesus Himself, at His death He teaches… (Luke 23:46) And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." Having said this, He breathed His last. Read again what Jesus said… Jesus gave up his Spirit but not His Soul
An example that supports this is when Mary at Jesus’ tomb turned and saw Jesus. She naturally got excited and Jesus told her… John 20:17 … Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father.
Do not miss this connection, Jesus gave up his Spirit to the Father at death but told Mary He had not yet ascended to the Father after His resurrection.
It is clear the scriptures never teach that the soul is or has an immortal subsistence. As both Jesus’ body and soul died and went to hades!
Similar threads
- Locked
