When Jesus Came out the Grave, he was Born Again.

[APAK]

Continued...

Another three commentaries say the same. Note they all say that the parousia (the second coming) never includes the Father – only Christ.



“In these last words not only does the grammar indicate that the inspired writer identified the Great God and the Saviour; not only is there a continuous chain of authorities, reaching from the apostolic age to our own, to this effect; but, further, the fact that “appearing” is a term peculiarly applied to the Son, and never to the Father, and that the immediate context especially refers to Christ, places it almost beyond doubt that our Blessed Lord is here said to be the great God; and that in the words of Ellicott, “this text is a direct, definite, and even studied declaration of the Divinity of the Eternal Son.” (Thee Rev. Edward Henry Bickersteth, M. A., A practical and Explanatory Commentary on the New Testament) “The text, declaring the true hope of the believer to be the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ, bears attractive testimony to the deity of Christ. In favour of this translation it can be said that nowhere else in the NT is God the Father said to appear, nor is the adjective great used of Him. The most convincing argument, however, is the presence of only one definite article which has the effect of binding together the two titles” (A Bible Commentary for Today, Edited by G. C. D. Howley, Page 1574, Comments by Alan G. Nute, 1979) “This verse is an eloquent expression of Paul’s belief in the divinity of Christ. Sometimes the translation is found: “of the great God [i. e., the Father] and our Saviour Jesus Christ. The following considerations militate against this translation: (1) In the Greek the expression “great God” and “our Saviour Jesus Christ” are governed by a single definite article; (2) the verse refers to the parousia, and everywhere else the glorious manifestation of the parousia pertains to Christ (1 Tm 6:14-15; 2 Tm 4:1; 1 Cor 1:7; 2 Thess 1:7; etc.); (3) the rest of the sentence (v.14) speaks only of Christ and ascribes to him a divine prerogative, the possession of a chosen people.” (The Jerome Biblical Commentary, R. E. Brown, J. A. Fitzmyer, R. E. Murphy, pages 360-361, Commentary on Titus, 1970) The same in principle applies to 2 Peter 1:1 “Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:” 2 Peter 1:1 Most scholars I have read, because there is only one definite article modifying “God” and “Saviour”, favour the Greek construct as referring to one and the same person. In keeping with these scholars, the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary makes this comment (which summarizes it quite well) “The Greek construction makes it reasonably certain that “God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” refers to one person, Jesus Christ. The phrase may be rendered “our God, even the Saviour Jesus Christ”. (The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 7, page 595, Comment on 2 Peter 1:1)

Mm..lots ot words here Brad.

Addressed all of them before, many times.

One element that must be really examined before plucking our choice scripture verses is to know the context. The understanding and explanation for this scripture has to be crunched in the right settings....not in isolation to force an expected result...

Hope you are staying healthy as part of the 70s club..

 

[APAK]

Mm..lots ot words here Brad.

Addressed all of them before, many times.

One element that must be really examined before plucking our choice scripture verses is to know the context. The understanding and explanation for this scripture has to be crunched in the right settings....not in isolation to force an expected result...

Hope you are staying healthy as part of the 70s club..

Meant to say counched...not crunched...the phone spell checking caused the error

 

[marks]

So why would anyone listen to anyone who does not know scripture and the nature of God and his Son?

Bingo!!

Deep in the heart of another "Jesus is Not God" thread, as Jesus is continually dishonored.

Much love!

 

[APAK]

Bingo!!

Deep in the heart of another "Jesus is Not God" thread, as Jesus is continually dishonored.

Much love!

Yes marks you indeed claim bingo, and you are a great example of one who I speak of...

 

[marks]

Yes marks you indeed claim bingo, and you are a great example of one who I speak of...

Because I believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate.

Yes, I believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate, exactly as the Bible shows Him to be.

Like it or lump it.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Because I believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate.

Yes, I believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate, exactly as the Bible shows Him to be.

Like it or lump it.

Much love!

lol!!!!

Like it or lump it--

J.

 

[APAK]

Because I believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate.

Yes, I believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate, exactly as the Bible shows Him to be.

Like it or lump it.

Much love!

You are greatly mistaken (again) marks.

I believe you have already lumped the fact that you do not believe in the angel message of the Bible that God's Spirit with a woman created a human being.

You instead have decided to believe in a non-scriptural version of who is Jesus, spoken and written down by pagan religious people centuries.

I speak the truth in scripture and you do not.

 

[Johann]

I believe you have already lumped the fact that you do not believe in the angel message of the Bible that God's Spirit with a woman created a human being.

What?

 

[APAK]

What?

You want to add anything useful Johann...?

Amazed at what is in scripture?

 

[marks]

You are greatly mistaken (again) marks.

I believe you have already lumped the fact that you do not believe in the angel message of the Bible that God's Spirit with a woman created a human being.

You instead have decided to believe in a non-scriptural version of who is Jesus, spoken and written down by pagan religious people centuries.

I speak the truth in scripture and you do not.

I don't expect you to understand the Bible.

Much love!

 

[Brakelite]

Mm..lots ot words here Brad.

Addressed all of them before, many times.

One element that must be really examined before plucking our choice scripture verses is to know the context. The understanding and explanation for this scripture has to be crunched in the right settings....not in isolation to force an expected result.

Hope you are staying healthy as part of the 70s club..

You said I had no evidence for my beliefs. I gave you evidence. You rejected it on the pretext that it wasn't in context. I didn't quote just haphazard scriptures without any context. I quoted both old and new Testament scriptures that agreed with each other, and harmonised. I have no doubt you have argued with them before. Giving up your position wouldn't be easy after all the investment you have committed to its cause. By the way. My statements on the Divinity/deity of Christ ought not be necessarily seen as an acceptance of the trinity. No one can force you to accept the beliefs of others, least of all me.
The apostle John in his Gospel and letters, went to great pains to prove the Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God. He even went so far as to state,
“That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. ”
1 John 1:3 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

In harmony with John, Jesus said,
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. ”
John 17:3 KJV
Unfeigned Bible

Christ is begotten of God. Only God can come out from God. Christ therefore is God. This is His inheritance (Hebrews 1:2, 1:4). This is why He is called the Son of God. The angels did not come out from God. Christ created them. Christ is the Creator of this world. Nothing exists in the universe except that it was made through Him (John 1:3, Hebrews 1:2, Colossians 1:16-17). Angels therefore are external to God. Not so with Christ. He is the only begotten of God. This is why He is God’s only begotten Son. He therefore would have been begotten (brought forth) in the “express image” of God’s very being. The difference between the Father and the Son is that the Father is unbegotten whilst the Son is begotten. This is why Jesus said that the Father is the only true God (John 17:3). Christ recognised His Father as the source of His life (John 5:26). It is also why God and Christ (Father and Son) each possess a personal identity of their own. They are two distinct personalities.
Have I included sufficient context for you?

PS. And thank you, yes, my wife and family are all well. Glory to God.

 

[bro.tan]

I just read your comments... and I thought I might ask you a question (athough I have not looked into this matter myself). Is it possible that the response from Thomas was indeed purposeful because prior to the cross, I do not believe anyone truly understand He was God on earth, but only after the cross, He would be revealed as both our Lord and our God?

Jesus had to go under the title of Son of God, even though he was God before the world was. This way the scripture cannot be broken, because Jesus was also the prototype of man becoming God, so he had to be born like man. Let's take a look in John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Let's take a look at this scripture in Psalm 82: 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; He judgeth among the gods. 5 They know not, neither will they understand; They walk on in darkness: All the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said, Ye are gods;
And all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.

This was and is the plan of God, we never suppose to die in the beginning, but many people do not understand this and all this connects. When Jesus was in the flesh, the Bible call him the Son of God.

Let's go into Hebrews 2: 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? Or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; Thou crownedst him with glory and honour, And didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

So when Jesus died and born again he had a different Body and can do other things like pop up from nowhere, etc. Look at what 1 Peter says in Ch 1: 23 being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. But Paul says the same thing in 1 Corthinan 15: 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Let's go into Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. 28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. 29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. 30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Look at verse 31, once they realized that it was Jesus they spoke with, what happen? He vanished out of their sight. Remember in John chapter 3 and verse 8. The Lord gave an example of how a spirit would look. He likened a spirit to the wind.( John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.)

 

[APAK]

I don't expect you to understand the Bible.

Much love!

Do understand the Bible marks without adding to its meaning? I wonder.

Here's a simple easy to understand verse, as many are into just single verse meanings without using its context, combined with other pertinent verses.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Now there are two subjects here in this verse marks. One is God (the Father of his Son) and the other is Jesus (his Son) made lord by his Father, the human being subject; not to be confused with the diving being of God his Father of course.

So if you can deduce directly from this verse, without hesitation, and not get cold feet that you may be a target for ridicule from religious folks, and if you do not say the two subjects are the same, then you must know in your heart then that Jesus is never God. And if you believe that God raised this human being, as the cold and knife-piercing truth, you will be saved.

Are you saved marks? Did you hesitate when faced with the word of God head-on here?

 

[APAK]

You said I had no evidence for my beliefs. I gave you evidence. You rejected it on the pretext that it wasn't in context. I didn't quote just haphazard scriptures without any context. I quoted both old and new Testament scriptures that agreed with each other, and harmonised. I have no doubt you have argued with them before. Giving up your position wouldn't be easy after all the investment you have committed to its cause. By the way. My statements on the Divinity/deity of Christ ought not be necessarily seen as an acceptance of the trinity. No one can force you to accept the beliefs of others, least of all me.
The apostle John in his Gospel and letters, went to great pains to prove the Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God. He even went so far as to state,
“That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. ”
1 John 1:3 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

In harmony with John, Jesus said,
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. ”
John 17:3 KJV
Unfeigned Bible

Christ is begotten of God. Only God can come out from God. Christ therefore is God. This is His inheritance (Hebrews 1:2, 1:4). This is why He is called the Son of God. The angels did not come out from God. Christ created them. Christ is the Creator of this world. Nothing exists in the universe except that it was made through Him (John 1:3, Hebrews 1:2, Colossians 1:16-17). Angels therefore are external to God. Not so with Christ. He is the only begotten of God. This is why He is God’s only begotten Son. He therefore would have been begotten (brought forth) in the “express image” of God’s very being. The difference between the Father and the Son is that the Father is unbegotten whilst the Son is begotten. This is why Jesus said that the Father is the only true God (John 17:3). Christ recognised His Father as the source of His life (John 5:26). It is also why God and Christ (Father and Son) each possess a personal identity of their own. They are two distinct personalities.
Have I included sufficient context for you?

PS. And thank you, yes, my wife and family are all well. Glory to God.

You did not provided logical or truthful evidence B. You are making the same gross mistake and producing the same faulty foundation as many others before you of equating God Almighty, the Father of Jesus, as the same exact being. And you use for example, Isaiah as your reference scripture....The LORD of God does not equate to lord Jesus for example. The 'first and the last' mean quite different things' for God and his Son. The former One is for creation as in genesis and more, and the latter is very specific for the first and the last human being ever to be raised from the dead, he is the first born of the new 'creation'....

The OT reflected and forecasted God Almighty's future spokesperson and perfect expression in purpose for mankind's salvation, through a human being created and SENT to save the world. He was God's expression as John wrote...they are NOT the same being at all as you indicated so strongly in your two posts.

 

[Ritajanice]

@APAK ...i find this amazing as well below.....I’m not referring to said poster, for some reason ,I’m unable to quote a post..must be a blip.

I believe you have already lumped the fact that you do not believe in the angel message of the Bible that God's Spirit with a woman created a human being.

Well, when you think about it, The Spirit also made Adam from the dust of the ground, the Eve from one of his ribs.

Also Jesus growing in the womb of Mary, giving birth to a divine ,yet human baby...with fingers, toes,etc, how incredible is that....that God in the flesh walked this earth....oh how I wish I could have met Jesus face to face in human form....what an incredible Man, who not once disobeyed His Father....none like Him Brother...I always start tearing up , then they start running down my face, when I get deep about Jesus.

The Power Of God I cannot understand, I don’t even try any more

 

[APAK]

@APAK ...i find this amazing as well below.....I’m not referring to said poster, for some reason ,I’m unable to quote a post..must be a blip.

I believe you have already lumped the fact that you do not believe in the angel message of the Bible that God's Spirit with a woman created a human being.

Well, when you think about it, The Spirit also made Adam from the dust of the ground, the Eve from one of his ribs.

Also Jesus growing in the womb of Mary, giving birth to a divine ,yet human baby...with fingers, toes,etc, how incredible is that....that God in the flesh walked this earth....oh how I wish I could have met Jesus face to face in human form....what an incredible Man, who not once disobeyed His Father....none like Him Brother...I always start tearing up , then they start running down my face, when I get deep about Jesus.

The Power Of God I cannot understand, I don’t even try any more

RJ, you make be a little confused in what I previously wrote.

I actually believe in the angel message and news of the birth of Jesus., the the Father's spirit and a woman CREATED a human being. Most do not.

The confusion lies in the fact that most do not believe that Jesus was created at all. They say he was not created, and that God imposed, possessed and transformed himself as a human being and thus this non-scriptural idea and term was introduced called for this unreal process called incarnation. This is idea distorts, causes utter confusion and is wrong.

God revealing himself through another human being is one thing, and with divine characteristics is one thing, although to then change this to a human being actually God himself and divine is a another thing.

Yes, as you said Adam, was also created, in a different way as Jesus, although both were human beings. And Adam was not divine, He even did possess divine characteristics as Jesus.

God revealed himself, his expression, by design as a human being for our salvation, although this human was not God. God does not make copies of himself. He is the one person God alone.

Hope this helps.

 

[APAK]

RJ, you make be a little confused in what I previously wrote.

I actually believe in the angel message and news of the birth of Jesus., the the Father's spirit and a woman CREATED a human being. Most do not.

The confusion lies in the fact that most do not believe that Jesus was created at all. They say he was not created, and that God imposed, possessed and transformed himself as a human being and thus this non-scriptural idea and term was introduced called for this unreal process called incarnation. This is idea distorts, causes utter confusion and is wrong.

God revealing himself through another human being is one thing, and with divine characteristics is one thing, although to then change this to a human being actually God himself and divine is a another thing.

Yes, as you said Adam, was also created, in a different way as Jesus, although both were human beings. And Adam was not divine, He even did possess divine characteristics as Jesus.

God revealed himself, his expression, by design as a human being for our salvation, although this human was not God. God does not make copies of himself. He is the one person God alone. He made a perfect image of himself however. called Jesus the Christ.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ritajanice]

Ok @APAK ...I think you also maybe misunderstanding my post,I don’t think I said that Adam had a divine nature, only Jesus was Born with a divine nature, as he was God in the flesh.

You say,

I actually believe in the angel message and news of the birth of Jesus., the the Father's spirit and a woman CREATED a human being. Most do not.

I say, do you believe that Jesus grew inside Mary’s womb?....that she was impregnated with the seed of God?..the womb was fertile , she had to be a virgin untouched by man, then that seed could grow inside her womb?.hence the virgin birth?

Sorry about the way in which I had to post, for some reason I can’t quote your post properly.

Mary was found with child of the Holy Ghost.....

I believe the written word of God.

Matthew 1:18-25
KJV
The Birth of Jesus Christ

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived [1] in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: [2] for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

 

[marks]

then you must know in your heart then that Jesus is never God.

Nonsense! The Bible is replete with the wonderful truth that our Creator God YHWH did Himself take on a human body. It's truly sad that you do not see this.

The only confusion is when some refuse to believe the Scriptures which clearly show Jesus to be our Creator God.

Much love!

 

[Ritajanice]

Ah, after reading above post of Brother Marks, oh @APAK , we definitely disagree on that level I think.

Are you saying that Jesus wasn’t God in the flesh?

I agree with marks on that one.